Level II upgrade

    • New
    Quote from pippopluto

    In this case, when selling your Player you'd lose the value of the upgrades

    Mhhh... what would the use of keeping upgrades and selling the hw be, since those are useless w/o the hw? Reselling an updated Player would result in a net loss for the upgraded value.

    Kemper's choice makes sense to me :)

    It would offer Kemper the possibility to for example offer the level II upgrade for free to owners of the bigger units without being worried about people flipping them for profit. If the update was free or heavily discounted, you wouldn’t take a loss when selling it either. The reason for keeping the upgrade license would of course be in case you would want to purchase a new one at a later time.

    • New
    Quote from Torbiz

    It would offer Kemper the possibility to for example offer the level II upgrade for free to owners of the bigger units without being worried about people flipping them for profit. If the update was free or heavily discounted, you wouldn’t take a loss when selling it either. The reason for keeping the upgrade license would of course be in case you would want to purchase a new one at a later time.

    I'm still disappointed and think that Kemper should find a solution for Bigger owners.....

    I understand they have to make new first-buyers hesitate between Player and Head/Stage/Rack too...

    I don't know if Kemper sellers would have interest to keep Upgrades' licences ? :/

    This is just link to Players for the moment, it means you think of buying another Player in 2/3 years ?! Imo, the buyers will search Players with upgrades too, to have a "used" price on thoses ones too.

    • New
    Quote from Steve5478

    I'm still disappointed and think that Kemper should find a solution for Bigger owners.....

    I understand they have to make new first-buyers hesitate between Player and Head/Stage/Rack too...

    I don't know if Kemper sellers would have interest to keep Upgrades' licences ? :/

    This is just link to Players for the moment, it means you think of buying another Player in 2/3 years ?! Imo, the buyers will search Players with upgrades too, to have a "used" price on thoses ones too.

    The point is that if this level II upgrade was free for users of the bigger units and tied to their account, there wouldn’t be a license to sell, whether or not you wanted to buy another one in a couple of years. :)

    Edit: BUT you would get the benefit of having the same effects in your backup unit. And the backup of you backup. And so on.

    • New
    Quote from Torbiz

    The point is that if this level II upgrade was free for users of the bigger units and tied to their account, there wouldn’t be a license to sell, whether or not you wanted to buy another one in a couple of years. :)

    Edit: BUT you would get the benefit of having the same effects in your backup unit. And the backup of you backup. And so on.

    I really hope Kemper will listen to you :/;(:rolleyes:

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    The administration of two license schemes - dependent on which upgrade level the unit has and tying that license to a user account but the other isn’t??!?!!

    That’s nuts. From a software license perspective it’s insanity.

    Jumping through hoops for people who until a few days ago were perfectly happy with the value they received from their existing units. All in the name of that user saving, what? $150?

    People who are already customers, which isn’t who this device is aimed at..

    Come on.

    • New
    Quote from questionaire

    The player as a milk cow

    getting tired of all the software companies trying to squeeze all euros/dollars out of you

    Greedy greedy is all i can say

    I will pass

    I want to correct my self and say sorry for my comments, after all this reading i came to the conclusion that the player is still a great piece of hardware.

    And you get the opportunity to upgrade to new levels where Kemper put a lot of effort/development in these updates where you simply have to pay for or not up to everybodies choice.

    I'm happy with level 1 and none is forcing me to update, and i still have that wonderfull piece of Hardware unit player, which sounds really terrific.

    Sorry for my shortsighted view given before.

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    I don't think it's appropriate to interfere in a company's business policy. You either buy the product or you don't. Tying the license to the device is absolutely OK in my opinion. Other companies do the same, with the difference that you can't upgrade after you buy it. Same hardware but different form factors and software versions. Kemper could also have released a Player Lite, Player Professional and Player Ultra. Perhaps with silver and gold rally stripes to show a visual difference.

    Be the force with you ;)

    • New
    Quote from Yoda Guitar

    I don't think it's appropriate to interfere in a company's business policy. You either buy the product or you don't. Tying the license to the device is absolutely OK in my opinion. Other companies do the same, with the difference that you can't upgrade after you buy it. Same hardware but different form factors and software versions. Kemper could also have released a Player Lite, Player Professional and Player Ultra. Perhaps with silver and gold rally stripes to show a visual difference.

    Yeah after weighing odds I agree that the license to machine is the best option here. It makes the most sense as its no different than buying a product that comes in 3 static options like you stated.

    • New

    The way I see it: look at any DAW.

    There is an essential version (often free), a basic version, a professional version and an ultimate version.
    To get from one to the other you, well pay a price to upgrade. Usually the software is already fully installed on your PC and it is only a matter of unlocking more features.

    How is this different? It is the same principal and it is a very unique case, since the player is the ONLY unit out of all the smaller modelers that is physically capably of playing presets from its bigger brother in its entirety. No other modeler can do that. And that is why no one else can or will follow suit. Because you just cannot Upgrade a FM3 into Axe3 territory, because it simply lacks the processing power. Only the player can do this.

    Now I hope that Kemper knows that they are threading a needle here. If they don't want to lose customer trust all future updates need to follow the logic as before and be free for all devices. If not, THEN we have a problem.

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    • Official Post
    Quote from questionaire

    I'm happy with level 1 and none is forcing me to update, and i still have that wonderfull piece of Hardware unit player, which sounds really terrific.

    That's an important takeaway. Nobody is forced to spend any extra money. You already have what you've paid for; I guess the Profiler Player doesn't suddenly become less attractive.

    By the way, we will continue to offer free software updates. An upgrade option for purchase doesn't change that.

    • New

    What I would also like to point out is that it would be nice if you could immediately see which upgrade version the device has when you turn it on, so that when you buy a used device you can quickly determine whether the seller keeps their promises. e.g. by the LEDs flashing once, twice or three times.

    Be the force with you ;)

    • New
    • Official Post
    Quote from Yoda Guitar

    What I would also like to point out is that it would be nice if you could immediately see which upgrade version the device has when you turn it on, so that when you buy a used device you can quickly determine whether the seller keeps their promises. e.g. by the LEDs flashing once, twice or three times.

    The Bank/Rig LEDs show the boot progress in

    No Update Installed: White
    Level II: Red
    Level III: Blue

    • New

    Im sorry but I just don;t get it...

    For the last xx years people have been clamouring for a smaller device that was cheaper and therefore less functionally rich. I never saw the need tbh but hey I understand why people asked for it.

    I'm pretty sure at the time one of the suggestions was for the option of paid upgrades (else Kemper would be undercutting their own market)...in any case this has been made clear from the start.

    Now we have exactly that and there seems to be people who are really disappointed to the point of saying they will leave the Kemper experience as if they have been screwed over?

    Although I thought I didn't need one I bought it as a backup only. If I was buying it as my main unit, I would have done the research to see how important the missing features are. I do miss morph but even if I switched to this as my main unit, I would manage. It a great feature but not essential for me, if it was, I would have held off as there was never a guarantee they were providing it, let alone as a paid upgrade.

    Kemper must again be thinking " what do they want from us as we gave them what they asked for"....and if you don;t like it, get a stage...they have given us options and yet we still have issues with it..

    Just seems nuts to me...

    • New

    Just to add a somewhat different perspective: Just imagine that Kemper started offering new hardware devices: a "Player Plus" (Player with LV II capabilities) and a "Player Pro" (Player with LV III capabilities). Each at the price point of the Player + the relevant upgrade...

    Now those of us who just want the basic functionalities for their pedalboards could buy the "Player", those who want something with a bit more could buy the Plus and those who essentially want all the capabilities of the big machines could buy the Player Pro.

    But I'd expect instant protests in the forum from everyone who bought the basic "Player" and now lusts for the "Plus" or the "Pro" - "if I had known this, I would have waited for the 'Pro'..."

    I actually like the idea of having three variants of the Player - those of us who just want the basic "amp and a bit" for their pedalboards can have just that, without paying for the full functionality of the "big" device; those who want the full thing and are willing to pay the corresponding price tag can also have that. And those of us who start out with the basics, but later discover they want a bit more can actually buy into the higher tier - without having to sell their existing device and buy a new one. I actually like that flexibility: pay only for what you want to use, but have the option to upgrade later.

    Nobody complains about this in the software world: as an example: there are four different levels of Cubase (LE, Elements, Artist, Pro) - you buy the one you need and you can afford. Nobody is complaining that "since Steinberg has already built Cubase Pro, why don't I get all the features when I buy Artist?"... And once your requirements get more ambitious and your budget increases, you have the opportunity to upgrade - all nice and logical.

    I can understand a discussion about the price for the different levels - personally, I would be more on board with an upgrade price of 100 EUR per tier, given that the Player is already at a pretty hefty price-point, compared to the rest of the market (compare it with the price for the Cortex Nano, which is essentially a pedalboard-focused profiling device and competes directly with the Player for pedalboard users). But the answer to what an acceptable price for the three versions of the Player is will be given in the marketplace over time - I suspect we'll see the price for the Player adapt to market mechanisms, and we may see discounted bundle offers of "Player Pro" or similar some time in the future. But that's speculation.

    For the moment, it's everybody's individual decision if they want a "Player Plus" or a "Player Pro" at the price offered - if not, there are alternatives in terms of functionality, form factor and operating paradigm.

    Cheers,

    Torsten