Why not just a Kemper?

Quote from Dynochrome

Just checking, how are you listening to the Kemper?

I normally play thru a 100 watt stereo into Behringer 2031P 8" monitors. The tweeters are very flat sounding. I dont normally play loud. And the overall sound of the Kemper is fine. But it does not sing or have much treble presence. It sounds a bit muted.

While working on the VST, I am on my programming PC which has Edifier 1280T 4" speakers. These speakers are not flat. There is a lot of low bass and crisp highs. Guitar sounds amazing on them. When playing the VST on these speakers it sings and has amazing presence like you are next to the amp. Really fun to play on them.

I have not spent enough time with the VST on the Behringers to get a feel for it.

Today, I pulled the Kemper up to the programming PC and played thru the Edifiers. It sang fine and was a blast to play. So some of the singing tone must be vibrations and feedback from these speakers. Even though I am not playing loud at all. But I was blown away by how much better it sang.

I keep making these posts about how important the crossover and tweeter are for guitar. The Edifiers sounds amazing. The Behringers... not so much. They of course have better bass and can play at much higher volumes. But the presence and sizzle of the tweeter is MIA.

I recently repaired an old Laney ProTube 50. It has a very nice Tube sound on the clean channel. Was testing pedals today on it. I will eventually test out the Kemper on it. I usually play thru a custom 2x12 cab I made with varying speakers in it. They get rotated. Eminence, Bugera, and Celestion 70 80.

There's no need to question why people prefer amps, they're the real thing, right?

I'm totally into a Mark Knopfler period now, after reading John Ilsley's book. He's a total amp snob and still chose the Kemper for his latest tour. I wonder what he thinks of it now after touring with it. I'd love to get my hands on some of his profiles. If you go to YouTube or his website there are many soundboard recordings of his latest tour, with the Kemper.

Quote from tnipe

There's no need to question why people prefer amps, they're the real thing, right?

I'm totally into a Mark Knopfler period now, after reading John Ilsley's book. He's a total amp snob and still chose the Kemper for his latest tour. I wonder what he thinks of it now after touring with it. I'd love to get my hands on some of his profiles. If you go to YouTube or his website there are many soundboard recordings of his latest tour, with the Kemper.

I m a big Knopfler fan - in fact he was my first guitar hero and one of the biggest reasons I play, although I play nothing like him!

I'm pretty sure most pro artists regard their sounds as part of their IP and so you are unlikely to see them but I think someone on the forum helped him develop his sounds on the Kemper....

Quote from V8guitar

1) Different combinations/functions not covered - lots of people talk about cascading gain structures etc. which you can't easily replicate. In addition things like the freqout pedal or complex looping...I struggle to understand why people need to use a Kemper for amps and Helix for effects and Axe for switching etc. BUT the flip side is no single unit is perfect. People want perfection...

I'm not sure I fully agree with this. The Kemper and Helix are both perfect units for me live and both do everything I want.

Most guitarist don't need a vast arsenal of delicate studio reverbs to play live. The effects in all these units do a lot more than my original amp, cab and rack effects units.

If you see a band live, I would struggle to hear subtleties between different modellers effects through a PA with drums bass and keyboards masking them.

Quote from karlic

I'm not sure I fully agree with this. The Kemper and Helix are both perfect units for me live and both do everything I want.

Most guitarist don't need a vast arsenal of delicate studio reverbs to play live. The effects in all these units do a lot more than my original amp, cab and rack effects units.

If you see a band live, I would struggle to hear subtleties between different modellers effects through a PA with drums bass and keyboards masking them.

Personally I agree but not everyone does so trying to reflect the community, not me :).

I think most people agree that Kemper is stronger in some areas and Helix stronger in others and therefore neither by definition/objectively can be perfect. Peopel then look to fill those gaps, regardless if they are "real".

I totally agree that 99% of the audience doesn't give a toss and of their concern ( unless the guitar sound is REALLY bad) will be whether they can hear you and how well you play....its only guitarists that care about this stuff and hence a total waste of time

Quote from V8guitar

Personally I agree but not everyone does so trying to reflect the community, not me :).

I think most people agree that Kemper is stronger in some areas and Helix stronger in others and therefore neither by definition/objectively can be perfect. Peopel then look to fill those gaps, regardless if they are "real".

I totally agree that 99% of the audience doesn't give a toss and of their concern ( unless the guitar sound is REALLY bad) will be whether they can hear you and how well you play....its only guitarists that care about this stuff and hence a total waste of time

Yes, I got the gist of what you were saying. All in one is perfect for touring light, especially if you have to go on a plane.

I bought Kemper in 2015 just on the basis of cost initially, with Fractal being too expensive in Europe. It has been brilliant and the updates gradually covered all bases for me. The Helix came later for backup and I found similar sounds with the Badonk and Friedman models.

They both offer poly pitch shift and all the usual effects to cover a gig. It is all in one to FoH for me and really useful when your band use in ears.

I'm on my third Kemper because I would always jump around to try different things. I think all the digital devices have pros and cons and nothing has been perfect.

What I really like about the Kemper is that there's a lot fewer parameters to worry about, and there's really only a handful of very simple controls that are very powerful (like definition and the main tone stack). I also like that I can turn physical knobs to adjust things like main effect parameters, and have buttons to toggle things without diving through menus. Also things like morphing are incredibly useful. And of course the core amp tones can sound great with no tweaking, and the core effects also sound really good and organic.

To really take it to the next level, I'd love to be able to realistically scale the gain up and down in a single profile. I can tweak it up or down a bit, but not a lot. That requires multiple profiles at different gain levels, but sometimes whoever shot the profile also tweaked the EQ or mics, so an amp may sound awesome with the gain at 5 but not as good at 3 or 8.

I'm still learning the device though and really committing to figuring it all out. If I can really understand the parameters and the best way to shape tones and scale the gain up and down, that will be awesome. I've already got way too many quality profiles, just want to use a handful going forward.

Quote from Dynochrome

That's what the report is from his camp, but I haven't seen a single thing with him talking abut it. Would like to though if I missed it.

It's been a few years now and this report is from his bandmate:

https://direstraitsblog.com/blog/mark-knopfler-is-now-using-kemper-profiling-amps-live/#:~:text=“The%20switch%20from%20%27real%27,“Down%20the%20Road%20Wherever.”

Quote from FearAbsolute

The one I use has an "EL34 Mod" or something done to it. The closest comparison in tone would be a Friedman BE. A lot of what I play is old school Thrash/Death Metal, and I must have tried 300+ Profiles...nothing really floored me...until the ADA. 🙂

There’s a Victory Kraken on Rig Exchange I use for Thrash and it sounds KILLER!!

I also had an ADAMP1 back in the day, and it was great for playing Vito Bratta solos.

Quote from aspiemattie

Really? Do you know which particular Kraken it is? 🤔

Quote from FearAbsolute

Really? Do you know which particular Kraken it is? 🤔

I just came across it randomly on Rig Exchange. (I think!)

Let me check, and get back to you.

to the original question, part of the reason for why JUST a kemper are not merely the particular strengths of this unit, but the convenience of using it by itself, with its light weight, size, and all inclusive editor. This is something true of most all-in-ones.

When I got rid of my Eventide H9 years back it wasn't because the updated kpa delays and verbs were better but were good enough to get the job done and weren't worse and arguably on par with H9 and other high-end effects makers units (actually the kpa ducking parameter is something I use a lot and no one else offers this control on all their algorithms) You can somewhat conveniently use one additional pedal with the KPA, or any other all in one. Takes just a minute plug and power it up, tucks in the pocket of a bag. However, once you add more, you quickly need a dedicated multi-pedal power supply, the need to permanently wire and velcro things up on a weighty pedal board, and then likely a more sturdy and heaver bag or case to transport it. Large pedal boards don't sit nice on a desk for ergonomics compared to the kpa head or even the larger Stage. Even more, these can be conveniently controlled with the editor even if it does sit out of reach or on the floor. Add some real pedals, or worse, pedals with their own editing and presets and you're going back and forth between different units and/or editors to organize your sounds.

Because I don't regularly use a volume or expression pedal, there's no reason for me to velcro the stage on a board with such pedals, and a thick padded bag is perfect. Also, the kpa foot switches are especially ergonomic when sitting directly on the floor and are not being elevated an extra inch .

There are many situations, so it's hard to synthetize it quickly.
Many points have been adressed.

First thing, we are talking about Professionals so, far from my concerns, they don't mind about cost, weight, number of devices....

I think we should separate old guitarists (as Knopfler ). They have achieved their rigs during years when there were no such profilers/modelers....

They don't talk about it cause, i think the need doesn't come directly from them. I assume that the sound guys advice him/them to play with it to be more reliable/repeatable whatever the rooms.... The settings are quicker.... Guitarists just have to be reassured their sounds and their feelings will be the same as before....

For the younger, why not just a Kemper ?

I think some can only play on one amp with few FXs so they don't understand the need of having a sophisticated pedal, they know exactly what they want, i understand and respect that....

For the rest, i imagine it's lazyness, they've been influenced or snobbery...

It's more glamour (a kind of heroic quest to say) ; "i've choosen this particular muff, disto, etc.....cause i've tested hundreds of pedals and i love the result with this specific one....for the delay, the same and so on.....They've spent a lot of time to work out their pedalboard, Wahou ! Bravo !

I feel like there's a kind of denigration about digital stuffs, it seems like the work is so easy to do....

I meet the same with digital camera ; cause everyone has good cameras even on their smartphones, they think pictures will automatically be beautifull....NO, the tool has evolved but you have to acquire knowledges.... The position, the settings you choose will have an impact on the result...

Even a Kemper needs time to obtain the sound you want....But it's boring to say, i've gone on rig exchange, choosen JCM800 from XXX, set the parameters this way...Put a Kemper drive, etc...

It'll be easier to summarize all that.... You won't talk about Kemper's shop to receive your Stage

On the other side, i think we are paradoxical too.

Modelers/profilers offers the possibility to be so versatile with a huge amount of amp/cab sims and some of us plug and play devices through tube amps or cabs with one particular speaker (V30, greenback, etc)...

The question of ease and weight is another thing, a guitar, a modeler and plug it directly in the mix table.... And no ; i bring my Kemper Kabinet too....

There are effects the Kemper can't produce, I've got a board with a sitar emulator, sequenced bit-crusher / filter, synth and others from the H9, a gamechanger plus pedal, and a CBA Habit which is utterly ridiculous, the profiler can't really do any of those things. It does completely remove the need for 'normal' pedals though, which is great as it means my pedal budget can go entirely on fun weird things! So I use the profiler's compression, drive, reverb and delay along with any EQ that's needed, and if I want something more 'magic' I can add in this board and go to town on it.