Posts by Grooguit

Quote from quemper

• You can pull the Player off your larger board and take it solo (with reduced capability). It fits in a gig bag. Stage is never going to be that. Different strokes for different folks.

That feature is probably the most appealing to me for the Player. I end up playing acoustic as often as electric live, and play some gigs on bass as well. For Bass and acoustic, the player would be fine for my needs. though even here, while the Stage is overkill, it's not THAT big, and at least if I need to edit, I don't need to connect to my phone or tablet to do so. The more visible tuner on the screen is convenient as well.

For the OP, it doesn't sound like he owns much gear currently. If so, the Stage would make a ton more sense than the Player. You don't need to worry about an external midi controller for external effects unless you already HAVE external effects you prefer to use over Kemper's built in effects. And if you DO end up adding one or two complex pedals, say something like the H90, the Stage's ability to send PC messages on Rig changes, might be enough, though your board will be a little bigger. Otherwise, the built in effects on the KPA are excellent, so unless someone expresses the desire for a more modular setup with external pedals, I'd recommend the Stage every time. They can always expand their board if they want to, benefiting from the Stage's PC messages and effect loops. If years later they have a large board full of pedals doing the heavy lifting, sell the Stage and get a Player.

Quote from V8guitar

Personally at present I think NAM is a bigger threat for Amplitube and other purely plug in based solutions.

Well put. At the moment, NAM isn't a product at all. It's an algorithm that lets you accurately capture amps, however with the least amount of after-the-capture-tweaking that can be done to them, compared to all that you the ways you can tweak an Mk 1 profile. Other than using it as a plugin for recording situations, it can only be run on a handful of overseas/Amazon knock off guitar pedal units.
And if the MK2 soon-to-be-released profiling tech gets much closer to "nullo" accuracy (or any accuracy that can be heard or felt) it's actually built in to a live product that has been streamlined for live use.

You really should get a Stage. If experimentation and learning about effects is key, the Stage does everything effect wise with high quality effects, while being much easier to use than the Player, thanks to its screen, more buttons, knobs, foot switches, and LEDs that let you know what is active and what is not. Other than being bigger than you might need in some situations (playing an acoustic set), the Player's only advantage is saving space and a little bit of money.

The Player's size and cost advantage disappear as soon as you begin to use it with extra gear to make up for its weakness. Consider the guitarist that buys a level 3 Player for $700+$325, gets a $150-350 midi or external foot switch, a couple of drive pedals ($150 each) and now needs a multi pedal power supply ($150) and a pedal board to mount all this to it ($150). He's now spent MORE money than just a $1500 Stage, for a board that takes up as much space and weighs more than a Stage by itself, and is still inferior in functionality. If he want to add some pedals that belong AFTER the amp section, he won't have an effects loop to place them in, and will lose all the benefits of having multiple outputs.

Quote from benifin

So .... are people thinking (?) -or- is Kemper saying or aiming (?) for the new MK2 Profiling process to be at least as accurate as the NAM Software process (?)

I ask this because if the answer and eventually is shown to be yes and provably true (?) ... if you then combine this with the Liquid Profile Process-Gain-EQ-Stacks ... then it would leap-frog anything else out there by some distance (?)

These are VERY big hurdles to overtake though (?)

Any thoughts / comments / insights ?

Ben

You could argue that now, with the most post capturing tools like definition, clarity, tube shape and all the liquid advantages that gen 1’s have, The usually negligible difference in accuracy is a small trade off for all the versatility the technically more accurate NAM and others lack.

So if gen 2 profiling makes it number 1 in its one supposed “weakness” then yeah it’s king of capture tech. They’ve made bold claims so if it lives up to it…. The one factor will be if the new profiling will have as many problem amps. It might end up being the most accurate in general but still struggling with a handful of amps. There’s no way to quantify how much that matters because it’s a question of: do you want the most accurate capture of 95% of amps and the most control of them? Or almost as accurate capture of 99% of amps with less control?

Quote from Delinquent

Yeah I agree, but retrieving data is not fool proof, you have to double check.

I can’t recall in the current age of digital how many times this is not true.

Ever fixed any digital device by simply rebooting I’m betting 100’s of times, it’s beyond me but simple fact is gremlins exist.

System settings can have different defaults in different OS versions. Even if all of the back up is otherwise the same. I think, anyway.

You all are checking the global settings on pure cab right? I’ve heard people say in the past that has changed with updates before.

If you’re looking for a great multi effects unit, why not just get a used stage first generation?
then you get all the benefits of having a screen and plenty of foot switches to toggle things on and off, the stereo effects loop so that you can put your amp in the middle.

The only thing you don’t get are the fixed effects. And you’ll still have quite an all in on unit if you do wanna or need to go direct from time to time. The problem with the fixed effects on the player is that it’s hard to have a use for more simulations effect blocks, the extra blocks become useful when you have enough foot switches to turn more things on and off without leaving the rig. Which the player has only three and seems more streamlined for switching between a few rigs than toggling effects within the same rig.

Quote from drog

I have an empty floor monitor that I put in front of my mic stand and pedalboard to keep the dancers at distance.

That isn’t a bad idea. In fact even for those that prefer to regularly use IEMs, you could get a working inexpensive powered 8” frfr wedge for $200 or so, less if used. Then you got a backup and if you’re stuck at a gig with a bigger group that has to share one monitor mix, you can hear yourself.

I should mention that for basic gain stages, you’ll probably want the morph’s ramp up and ramp down set to zero to make it instantaneous.

Quote from Radek01

I see. I overlooked "Profiler Stage" at the beginning. I'm sorry.

Is it possible to achieve this on KPP? I mean by one switch action to enable effect and disable another one?

If this is too digressing I can open another thread for it.

That's a good question. How do you assign things to foot switches on the Kemper Player? I know there are some global settings on how the switches operate. But are things like which effects a switch toggles in each Rig fixed as well? Maybe someone else who owns a Player can answer this?

I'd be surprised if you couldn't assign a foot switch to toggle more than one effect. I believe you can assign morph to a foot switch that's assigned to select a particular Rig in every bank. This way, if one of the foot switches selects Rig 4, hitting it again can go to morph and then once more back to base state, and so on.

Quote from Radek01

What do you exactly mean here? FX1 and FX2 is possible to assign just one effect. Thanks.

You can assign up to for four effect blocks to an effects foot-switch on a Kemper stage or the Remote. This lets you turn on or off multiple effects at once with one footswitch. They can be set to turn on and off together, or opposites so that pressing the foot-switch turns one effect on while turning the other effect off. Just read in the manual how to assign effects a to foot-switch.
in my example, the Kemper drive in slot B and full Oc in slot C could be turned on and off by the same foot switch.

I found a cool trick that lets me jump between three gain stages in the same Rig with less tap dancing. It works in a few scenarios that you may use to get three gain stages.

Assign two drives to two slots, say the Kemper drive to slot B and the Full OC to slot C. Lower their mix to zero in base state, (which will sound the same as if they were both inactive.) Then hit the morph button and set their mixes to 100%. Then assign slot B and C to the same foot switch and turn off one while the other is on, so that only one can be active at a time

Now when you are in base state, it won't matter which drive is currently active, because the mix of both is set to zero anyway and the sound will be as clean as your amp is. When you hit morph, it won't matter that both of your drive's mixes jump to 100% because only one is active at a time. So if your lead sound is the one you use the least, save the Rig so that the B drive is active. Now you have all the advantages of assigning two drives to one footswitch, but still being able to hear neither. Keep in mind to that if you actually like using your drives with less than 100% mix, say 90% to let a little clean through, this still works. Just morph either pedal you want less than 100 from 0 to 90.

You could also do this in reverse. set their mixes to 100% in base state and 0% in morph. Then you can toggle between rhythm and lead in base state and hit the morph button to jump to clean.

A similar setup also works if you want to stack these two drives for lead, rather than turn B off when C is on. In this case, you still morph both drive's mixes from 0% to 100% but you only assign slot C to the footswitch, while leaving slot B active. Then in base, you won't hear either drive because their mix is at zero, in morph you'll always hear the B drive, but will only hear the C drive when you switch it on AND are in morph. If you morph back to base state, you'll go directly to clean, regardless of whether C is active, because it, and the B drive's mix are at 0%. Conversely if you have a set of drives in which you want to use the later drive in slot C for rhythm and push it with a drive in slot B for lead, just assign slot B to its own switch, and leave slot C active.

A Similar set up works if you have three drive effects. Maybe for clean you'd like to have a very light drive effect to just color a little, but don't want this on when either of your main drives are on. Just put this light drive in A or D and morph it from 100 to 0. Then it will effectively turn off in morph state when your other drives morph on, only one of which can be heard at once. (Obviously if you want this light drive to stay on all the time, just put it in the slot you want and leave it on and don't morph it. )

Since your drives are only heard in morph state, you could also opt to morph the amp's gain up as well, if you'd like some mix of your amp's gain going up when you're drives are effectively on. Now morphing will increase your amp's gain AND turns the mix of your drives up. Similarly, I've found that I often like the sound of more amp gain for medium gain, but like a drive pedal to help with lead (rather than just upping the amps gain even more than I like for rhythm). In this case, you could have just one drive pedal, say in slot C on its own footswitch. Morph that from 0 to 100% and morph the amp gain from a lower setting to higher setting you want for rhythm/medium gain. Now in base state you hear just the amp at its lower gain stage, whether the C drive is active or not. When you morph, you'll hear the increased amp gain if slot C is toggled off. If slot C is toggled on you'll hear the amp with increased gain AND the slot C drive for lead.

With any of these setups, you could also assign a noise gate, EQ, and/or a pure boost to toggle on when the Slot C drive is on. Just make sure to morph their settings from effectively off in base to their desired settings in morph state. Otherwise, you'll hear them in base state if the are toggled on. In other words, you'd need to set them to sound like they are off in base state, just like you do with your drives set to 0% mix in base state. So for the EQ that means flat settings in base state and however you want it tweaked in morph.

The biggest difference is "amp in the room." If you like another's real amp and cab, and you mic it like you would for a concert or recording session, the Kemper will profile it so that the profile sounds and feels identical to the mic'd sound. In fact, if you had your real amp and cab in another room and listened to it through monitors, you could toggle back and forth between the profile and the real amp and cab and probably wouldn't know which one is which, or even tell a difference. However, if you walk into that room where your real amp is, it will probably be shaking the walls. And if the speaker is pointed at your head, it will sound brighter than if it's pointed at the back of your knees. Whereas, if you went back into the other room, and cranked up your monitors that are monitoring your real amp, they are less beamy when on and off access, and of course, the mic and its position are adding something to the sound you are monitoring. That's really the only difference between a "real amp" and a profile of that real amp.

If you like the "amp in the room" you can achieve that by pairing your kemper with a Kemper Kone.

Some have discussed that it would be desirable to have the 8-band graphic EQ and a pure boost as additional post amp fixed effects. I like the idea, but I think it would be better to have these additions added to the amp stack itself.

Most people who use the 8- band graphic EQ use it fine tune the tone of particular profiles, therefore it makes sense to save these EQ settings as part of the amp stack itself, also saving them an effects slot and the need to save a separate EQ preset from a Stack preset. When the amp is in view, hit the page button past the pages with the fancy functions like clarity, definition, tube shape, etc. and you get to an 8-band graphic EQ page, then pure boost. Maybe you could choose the parametric EQ instead of the graphic here? Add a soft button that lets you assign the EQ to be first or last in the stack section. Offer the same position change for the pure boost. Then allow the EQ and Pure boost to each be assigned to foot switches the way that the freeze and infinite functions in the delay modules can be assigned to foot switches.

Some were disappointed that the EQ and pure boost weren't included in the post amp fixed effects and have expressed that they don't have use for the chorus or doubler. So my idea of placing these in the amp stack accomplishes the same thing as offering them as additional fixed effects, since they won't need to give up their X or mod slots to add these effects.

As we've discussed some desire for a fixed post amp pure boost here, I found a workaround that might be helpful for some. The need for this boost, is to get more volume, as pre boosts tend to just drive the amp harder and compress.

I personally like using the auto volume compensation, but when the Liquid profiles were added a couple years ago, they added the ability to turn down the volume compensation. I imagine that want a post amp pure boost want it for soloing situations, when they are also boosting the gain in some fashion with a drive effect or even just a pure boost before the amp. With the amp's volume compensation off, boosts before the amp will increase the volume more than if the volume compensation is all the way up. Also, not having the amp block compression on helps such boosts increase the volume as well. So you might find that turning these options down will lessen the need for a pure boost after the amp. (I'm not saying they shouldn't add a fixed post amp pure boost, but this might be helpful workaround if they don't).

I got the four footswitch from otter (ottercustomdesign.com) they are shaped like the stage and can be velcroed to either side. And they have them in black or hunter green. They are plastic but seem sturdy enough. Actually, the lighter weight is ideal if you want to attach to the side of your Stage with Velcro and keep your rigs weight down

My plan is to assign these switches globally (as you have to) for things I don’t use as much and won’t turn on and off much mid song, such as reverb. The one furthest back might be ideal for triggering wah, as my toe would be close to it when stepping on my expression pedal anyway.

More switches means fewer rigs and fewer performances to fit everything I might need in a life situation. So four extra toggle switches that let me utilize and turn on and offmore of the effect blocks and fixed effect blocks once my MK two arrives is a good thing.

In any event, my desire is to stick it to the side of the stage is so that it stays put without the need to mount everything to a board, since I’m not using other pedals.

I got myself a Gator GK-2110 gig bag five years ago when I got my stage as it was around $75-$80. It was a few inches longer than needed and therefore fits fine with just the stage with room for this otter switch on the side. I got some right angle on each end expression cables, so I can leave the two stereo cables required from the otter to two of the stage’s expression jacks plugged in all the time. The side pocket fits my full sized Dunlop expression pedal, though it’s pretty tight. the main compartment that holds the stage isn’t too tight, so no problem throwing a couple guitar cables under or on top of the stage. This is actually an ideal bag if you just have the stage, though a few inches longer than needed if you don’t have the otter.

Quote from OneEng1

Just my opinion but I VASTLY prefer having totally independent performance slots to trying to fit everything I need in a single rig and just turning certain stuff off/on and also having different adjustments made throughout the chain.

While I am an old software engineer, this isn't how I want to think about my guitar rig.

As a result, having a gate, transpose, and eq that is all outside of the 4 pre and 4 post effects (as well as having an EQ in the amp) has been more than enough for what I have ever needed to do in the last 12 years.

That isn't to say that I can't imagine someone else needing or wanting more flexibility. This is only to say that for me, playing live in a cover band, Kemper's workflow has been very good.

Last night I was listening to "Dirty Little Secrete". Took me all of 10 minutes to get a VERY good rig put together that gave me an excellent replication of the guitar tones used on that song (3). Should my band decide to pick this song up, I could make a performance for this in no time.

This is what is most important to me. I have friends with Helix and Fractal products. I have had the competition before of where we all 3 picked a song, then dialed in the tone on each device. My friends even agree that Kemper is superior in this regard.

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Set one rig the way you want it; copy and paste it into slot in a performance, then swap out whatever effects do you want for a different part of the song, Whether it’s the same effect algorithms tweeked differently, or an entire different effect. Then hit save. And be thankful you can switch between these rigs mid song without changing modes.

The only time this becomes an issue is if there are times you need more active blocks at the same moment in time, but so as long as you don’t need them all active at once, it’s better to just have more rigs in the same performance, then more things to turn on and off in the same rig. And even if some people prefer organizing in the massive preset way, there are several other competing products that organize like that. And as many pointed out, capture tech is something that everyone will soon be offering, and it’s normally splitting hairs to tell the difference. So why would we encourage the one company that does things a little bit differently to copy What the QC and helix are doing? Just buy one of those products if that way of organizing makes more sense to you. (And it is a legitimate way to organize and I totally get why some people prefer it.)

Quote from robtguitar

I posted earlier that I'm selling my FM9 and have ordered a Stage MK 2 because the Kemper feels so much better. Waiting for the Stage to arrive, but in the meantime I realise that whatever happens moving forward, I think they HAVE to get rid of this format. This is so limited now compared to the competition. Would be great to be able to just move the stack position for example, then have up to 8 slots after the amp, or wherever you need it. I don't care what the buttons are called, just have a row of them and configure them via the editor.

This could be cool, but it might not be feasible for them to implement, because of the global output options that were designed to be tapped after certain blocks; something a fixed path makes possible. *It might be feasible for them to offer the ability to move the stack back or forward a spot or two though; and one more block before or after would let you add one more thing where you want it.

One thing to not forget is that if you're coming from a Helix/QC way of thinking, where you need to fit all the effects you need for a song in one preset, the desire to move the amp stack makes a lot of sense, because you might sometimes need more total effects before or after the amp in certain songs. But the KPA's performance mode makes it unnecessary and even counter productive to organize that way. KPA prioritized its performance mode, not for staying put in one Rig, but for switching BETWEEN rigs mid-song, each with their own combination of amp/cab/effects. Each rig providing as many simultaneous effects as 99% guitarists will ever need active at the same moment in time. (See my earlier and lengthy post in this thread about this tradeoff).

Couldn’t you just turn off the amp and cab on the rigs you want to use with your real amp? Then if would be just the players effects going into your amp. Just set the output volume really low to match plugging your guitar straight into the amp.

Quote from Ruefus

For a decade, Kemper was the only fish in the pond they created.

Having served on a worship team for over ten years, I’m not sure why a worship leader would want one device - that’s on stage and inaccessible to anyone, including the person using it, to control those functions and also be trapped on stage.

Because something will go wrong.

You’d have to have next to zero budget to trust tracks and lights to a single device. Run Ableton on an iPad (which works *really* well) and let the drummer trigger the tracks. They’re better positioned and able to interact on the fly. Especially when something goes wrong.

The lightboard has to exist for reasons beyond music performance, so that becomes redundant.

I can see applications for the extra tech in certain situations, but not really in worship bands no matter how small.

That one unit goes down and the whole thing grinds to a halt.

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I don’t disagree, but people buy products for features they never actually end up using l, just because they think they might. And if their context is not super legalistic about tech failing here and there, you’d be surprised what “risks” people take week after week for years in worship contexts. Worse case you shut off your tracks mid song once every couple months. That’s more likely to be needed because you’re working with a handful of limited musicians that struggle to stay on click. You’ve empowered your volunteer soundman to make the call and mute the tracks if he hears a train wreck. You finish the song without it and move on.