Profiles done with different guitars, soundquestions???Who has done profiles with di marzio evolution pick ups?

    Hi, i am searching for profiles that have been done with di marzios evolution pick ups. Id like to check out the statement that a profile could not sound like the original amp to me if i use a profile from RM that is done with different pick ups as i have in my guitar because a profile is the amp, the cab, guitar, the pick ups. So, is it true, when i use an mbritt profile it cant sound for me as it sounds for michael because he uses other pick ups? Please forget these" its all in yourfingers" thing.
    Its just the technical view on it. I think there is a logic behind it, when you play a profile which is done with your guitar you feel much more comfortable. But this would be absurd, because for me its one of the biggest features of the kpa. Buy a good profiled boogie mark v and you get the sound. If i buy a commercial profile which is done with a strat it cant sound good with a Ibanez jem or a les paul? This points out that i have to ask andy from taf or the other guys who are selling profiles what kind of guitar they have used in the profiling process before i buy a pack.
    What do think guys?

    cheers
    Frank

    It has been said many times before that a profile NEVER has anything to do with the guitar it was refined with.
    The ONLY connection a profile has with the guitar is how the profiler has chosen to dial in the amp in order to sound good with the guitar he has intended to use it with.

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Ok, i have searched in RM for dimazio and found some profiles to check out. But what do you guys think about this pick up thing?

    cheers
    Frank


    See my post above. What you want to do is look for profiles where the amp was dialed in with pickups that have about the same output and tonal characteristics as yours.

    Quote from Ingolf

    It has been said many times before that a profile NEVER has anything to do with the guitar it was refined with.
    The ONLY connection a profile has with the guitar is how the profiler has chosen to dial in the amp in order to sound good with the guitar he has intended to use it with.

    Hi Ingolf, that means "tweaking every time" to fit a profile to your guitar? I cant believe that profile which is done with a tele could sound good with my jems,alsowith a lot of tweaking, or isnt it so?.

    cheers
    Frank

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Hi Ingolf, that means "tweaking every time" to fit a profile to your guitar? I cant believe that profile which is done with a tele could sound good with my jems,alsowith a lot of tweaking, or isnt it so?.

    cheers
    Frank


    Frank, I think you are trying to say that your Jem could not sound like the Tele which is true but your Jem can still sound good to you and others with that same profile. :thumbup:

    Hi Frank,I will give you an "non-direct" answer to your question which is just my 2 cents after 4 weeks of testing the sound-capabilities of the KPA.One of the most interesting things for me is the fact that every single great profile which sounds great with my Les Paul(custom made some 30 years ago) sounds also very good (I would say the "same good") with my 70s Stratocaster.And visa verca.What do both guitars have in common;Well only three things:Both are very "heavy" guitars and both have fixed bridges.Rest is (ofcourse) different.But the most common thing of these two guitars is that they really sound great.For what they are supposed to sound like.With the rest of all guitars I have tried with the KPA things always change from rig to rig.What sounds good with my ESP custom (with seymour duncan humbucker) does not sound good with an Ibanez RG or what sounds good with a Orville Les Paul does not sound good with my Gibson Les Paul special P90s..and so on.I could go on for hours.I am not sure (yet) about the whole thing but it is very interesting indeed.Maybe in the end and after many testing we will come to a simple conclusion;That every "very great sounding" guitar with a "pure concept" (like a vintage strat or vintage les paul) do sound great with great profiles of more or less "great sounding vintage amps";I am talking about all those stuff which we grew up with.."legendary music" with the best marshalls,fenders,Vox,HiWatts etc Jimi,Ritchie,Tony,Stevie,B.B. and all the other lads could get their magical hands on during the last 50 years.That the KPA is indeed capable to "catch" essential characteristics of "sound instruments";Would make sense to me.After all I bought the KPA because it is FUN to play.Means that it has "music" inside.Big thing for a digital device.We never had this before.At least I had this NEVER before.Now back to your question.Could it be that PUs have such a big influence on a profile;I dont believe this.I think the whole thing about the KPA is that you have a "clear concept" in mind when you do the profiling AS WELL as when you select and play a profile.Most professional profilers in here already try to follow this path.On their product sales pages most of them give all information (guitars,PUs,gain,cabs and mics) about their recorded profiles some one who is looking with a clear concept really needs to select them.Maybe it would be a good idea to give more information;Maybe about the EQs setting used;

    The thing is that someone who makes a profile of an amp has a certain guitar that he uses to play the amp and dial in the amp. Then the profile is a faithful recreation of that sound that is tailored to that guitar.
    Now, if you play the profile with a different guitar, you should be aware that there's a need to dial in the sound that fits YOUR guitar and pickups.
    I, for one, find that with my strat that has a fender cs fat 50s single coil in the neck position, on most profiles I need to lower the bass in the eq (just one example) - tele is a different thing as well as humbucker loaded guitars. I admit that when I first startetd using profiles that I haven't made, I was feeling I shouldn't change anything about the adjustment of the EQ and deep parameter of the amp. Then, after some time, it dawned on me to simply trust my ears ... That's I guess the way to go. Don't be afraid of adjusting the profiles done by somebody else to your taste and to fit the guitar you play with.

    Quote from Eltzejupp

    Would be very happy if it is as you have posted.


    Look at it like this:
    Say I dial in my amp for my Strat so it is sounding 100% as I want it to sound.
    Now I change my guitar to a Tele. Without changing the amp settings it will still sound very good, but a bit different. And this is to be expected. Surely I could go on now and re-tweak the amp, but I can accept the differences.
    Changing to a higher output guitar like a LP will even sound more different, but still very good. The same applies as above.
    If the differences become too big it may be necessary to re-tweak the amps.
    Another example: Carlos Santana played Strats in the studio very often. The reason you've almost never seen him with a Strat live is that his Mesa Boogie's (which are very delicate to tweak anyway) would have required tweaking the amp in a live setting which was too much of an hassle so Carlos decided against it.
    Personally on most gigs I bring a Tele and a Strat and never need to tweak in between.
    When making rigs I almost always do it with my reference strat or tele and from there I accept (and enjoy) the differences that all my other guitars give me from this reference point on.

    [Look at it like this:
    Say I dial in my amp for my Strat so it is sounding 100% as I want it to sound.
    Now I change my guitar to a Tele. Without changing the amp settings it will still sound very good, but a bit different. And this is to be expected. Surely I could go on now and re-tweak the amp, but I can accept the differences.


    Hi Ingolf,
    this make sense. I think we all have done it like this way in the pre kpa phase. One amp, different guitars, no special tweaking at the gig.
    But in my mind is another thing. I think over the profile itself. If a boogie profile is done with f.e. a strat and i am searching for a boogie one from a commercial dealer, i cant believe that it sounds good to my music man petrucci because i think there are some thinks missing in the profile process (characteristics of the guitar and pick up). With a normal amp it dont care because i am not going to make a profile, i plug in and play.
    ut if its so as you have have posted i am happy with it (just a little bee in my mind.....summmm, summm). Its maybe a kind of placebo effect, but i have checked some boogie profiles from djemass and some others >(they have profiled with dimarzios resp. with a music man petrUcci guitar) and i think this profiles are sounding better for me (fitted to my guitar) than other ones profiled with single coils (could be an imagination....).

    Frank, I think you are trying to say that your Jem could not sound like the Tele which is true but your Jem can still sound good to you and others with that same profile. :thumbup:[/quote]

    Hi Zap,
    this is not what i mean. I can do what i want, i ll never get the sound of a tele out of my jem ;)
    he question is: Is a profiled amp f.e. a fender twin, profiled with a tele, a good choice to use it with a jem for reaching the ballpark of a fender amp tone, or must i ask with which kind of pick up or guitar the profile was made of.
    In my mind is, if i profile an amp with a low output pick up or a thin sounding pickup, the profile couldn't sound good for a guitar with other characteristics .

    I understand what you're looking into now. All I know is that I switch from my LP Standard to my Fender Strat all the time using the same profile, ex. AC30 & Twin which was profiled with (Tele / bridge), and it still sounds good to me.

    For me, it's the same as any amp. I can plug a Tele, a Strat or even a Les Paul into a Marshall and know that with very little knob-twiddling I'll be able to get it in the ballpark very quickly. Back when I owned Ibanez RGs, plugging into that same amp with the same settings wouldn't be so immediately satisfying. It always required additional tweaking.
    I think it's to do with the pickups, the body wood and body thickness. Almost every Ibanez guitar (or pretty much any modern mass-produced rock guitar for that matter) I've ever played has a wafer-thin neck, some light-weight wood for the body, with large cavities for the ubiquitous Floyd Rose trem. My thought is that to compensate, they tend to be married to much hotter output pickups, with the lows and highs being accentuated. Back in the old days, a solid-bodied guitar was exactly that; pretty much a big slab of wood with strings. This characteristic created the sound we today associate with great guitar tone, in conjunction with those big old tube amps, of course. Now that technology has moved on slightly with regards to construction and materials, to get those same, classic sounds, we have to compensate (and sometimes compromise).

    Having said that, when I first got a KPA, I searched far and wide for profiles that suited my Ibanez JS1000, but never got anything that sounded decent that had a gain less than close to max! Old Fenders and whatnot just sounded diluted and anaemic. Never had that problem with my Tele or Les Paul. However, after buying MBritt's Vintage pack, the JS1000 is getting a new lease of life. I'm not sure why, but those profiles just work with all my guitars!

    the Definition parameter is extremely powerful to make a profile 'fit' a certain guitar/pickup combo better.
    a profile of an amp dialed in with a mid heavy/darker sounding humbucker would probably be rather bright to compensate the darker tone of the guitar/pickup. if this profile is now used with a bright sounding SC guitar, it behaves exactly like the amp would - it would be too bright. (bright guitar + bright amp)

    a profile of a bright amp most likely has a Definition of >5, lower the parameter until you hit the sweet spot for your guitar and vice versa.

    in short,as always, it is about the amp itself, how the amp was set, the cabinet and the way it was miked.use Definition to find your sweet spot. Look at the Definition value of a few rigs you like,they are most likely within a certain range.

    Making this about the pickups is over-complicating a rather simple issue, really. ;)
    hth

    It seems to me that, at least in my case of making a profile, that the settings on the amp, were chosen because of the guitar I was using, and when I was satisfied with the sound, then I knew I had a replica of that guitar and amp's sound. Whether or not the algorithms actually react to the particular guitar during profiling and refining processes, is perhaps questionable. However, it is true that if I perform with that same combination at a later date, I will achieve the same sound, and with a different guitar, a different sound. That said, if a profile that includes a Klon in front of the input makes a difference to the algorithms, then logic tells me the pickups, cable, effect, amp, cabinet, and mics, as well as the room will all be part of the profile.

    Quote from thebrushwithin

    It seems to me that, at least in my case of making a profile, that the settings on the amp, were chosen because of the guitar I was using, and when I was satisfied with the sound, then I knew I had a replica of that guitar and amp's sound. Whether or not the algorithms actually react to the particular guitar during profiling and refining processes, is perhaps questionable. However, it is true that if I perform with that same combination at a later date, I will achieve the same sound, and with a different guitar, a different sound. That said, if a profile that includes a Klon in front of the input makes a difference to the algorithms, then logic tells me the pickups, cable, effect, amp, cabinet, and mics, as well as the room will all be part of the profile.

    Thats what i suppose!

    Quote from thebrushwithin

    Whether or not the algorithms actually react to the particular guitar during profiling and refining processes, is perhaps questionable.

    as stated repeatedly: the guitar has no influence on the profiling and refing process.

    Quote from thebrushwithin

    That said, if a profile that includes a Klon in front of the input makes a difference to the algorithms, then logic tells me the pickups, cable, effect, amp, cabinet, and mics, as well as the room will all be part of the profile.

    a stompbox in front of the amp you're profiling?
    of course that's going to matter to the resulting profile.

    or what are you referring to?

    Quote

    a stompbox ins front of the amp your profiling?
    of course that's going to matter to the resulting profile.

    or what are you referring to?

    yes, any sort of stomp box that is not time delay based, as I have always understood it. Don, you and the other great folks at Kemper, obviously know what you are talking about, but it is just that a non engineer, like myself does not understand why everything used in the profile matters, EXCEPT the guitar and pickups. And really, it only matters if one is trying to understand why. So, would you say you would get the exact same profile out of an amp, if you used an electric banjo, or flute to make the profile, as you would with a Les Paul?

    Trying setting an amp up with a particular guitar to get a particular sound. Now, without changing anything on the amp, plug in a different guitar. Note the difference in sound. Now, profile and refine with this guitar. Note how close the profile is to the amp sound. Now, go back to the first guitar. Note how close the profile sounds with this guitar to the sound of the same guitar through the amp (the original sound you set up). This should put any discussion to bed (or open up a whole new one, haha!).