Opinons on setting the gain at 5 vs 10 when creating a liquid profile.

1st Official Post
    The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Stage

    Im not that experienced when it comes to creating profiles but i ran a little test and am curious as to what other think may be the best practice when it comes to my two comparisons ive made.

    I made two Direct profiles of my AC30 head Top Bost High channel. Running the out into my Suhr reactive load and sending the unfiltered direct tone out to the kemper for the profile.

    One i set the gain/volume at 5 and the other profile i set it full out, all other knobs at noon. I then took both profilesn I had made and set up two presets with the same IR and same amp settings. They sound very similar but i definitely notice some small variations. I think i actually prefer the profile i made with the gain set on 5.

    I usually run this amp with the gain around the halfway mark. Would it be more accurate to create a profile with the gain set closer to where i usually run the amp live? I did notice that the default definition settings of the full gain profile was a little lower. 1.8 definition on the full gain profile vs 3.8 on the halfway gain profile.


    Which do you think would be the more accurate profile between these two?

    • Official Post
    Quote from Amcolan

    Im getting pretty damn good results this way. is it possible to make a direct profile using a radial DI box and using the cabinet to take the load?

    using a real cabinet as a load is highly recommended - the DI box in question has to be able to withstand speaker (!) level signals.
    there is a thread about possible DI box choices, I'll link it here

    So am i running the speaker out of the amp to the passive DI with a speaker cable, then the THRU to the cabinet with speaker cable and the DI out to the kemper with a regular cable?

    Will this effectively take the load of the amp so i dont blow the amp?

    • Official Post

    the point is, that the DI box has to be able to withstand speaker(!) level signals.

    please refer to the manual 'PROFILING an Amp', subsection 'How to PROFILE an Amp without a Cabinet (Direct Amp PROFILEs)'

    and

    Thread

    DI-boxes suitable to create Direct Amplifier Profiles

    In order to create Direct Amp Profiles a DI box is required, but not every DI box is suitable for this job.

    As the DI-box has to be placed between power amplifier and speaker cabinet it needs to be capable to handle such signal levels. Some DI boxes are only suitable for line level signals. Those cannot be used.

    If the DI box should offer speaker simulation or attenuation, these features need to be inactive. Some DI boxes don't allow complete deactivation. Here is a list of a few DI boxes, which…
    Burkhard
    March 20, 2015 at 10:43 AM
    Quote from DonPetersen

    the point is, that the DI box has to be able to withstand speaker(!) level signals.

    please refer to the manual 'PROFILING an Amp', subsection 'How to PROFILE an Amp without a Cabinet (Direct Amp PROFILEs)'

    and

    Thread

    DI-boxes suitable to create Direct Amplifier Profiles

    In order to create Direct Amp Profiles a DI box is required, but not every DI box is suitable for this job.

    As the DI-box has to be placed between power amplifier and speaker cabinet it needs to be capable to handle such signal levels. Some DI boxes are only suitable for line level signals. Those cannot be used.

    If the DI box should offer speaker simulation or attenuation, these features need to be inactive. Some DI boxes don't allow complete deactivation. Here is a list of a few DI boxes, which…
    Burkhard
    March 20, 2015 at 10:43 AM

    I saw this. But im still confused on whether the DI box is simply in addition to the cabinet or are we using a DI that can withstand the load and that will protect the amp. Or do we still need to use a cabinet in this case. If were using a DI with no cabinet then isnt that essentially a load box? Like the suhr RL

    Quote from DonPetersen

    the point is, that the DI box has to be able to withstand speaker(!) level signals.

    please refer to the manual 'PROFILING an Amp', subsection 'How to PROFILE an Amp without a Cabinet (Direct Amp PROFILEs)'

    and

    Thread

    DI-boxes suitable to create Direct Amplifier Profiles

    In order to create Direct Amp Profiles a DI box is required, but not every DI box is suitable for this job.

    As the DI-box has to be placed between power amplifier and speaker cabinet it needs to be capable to handle such signal levels. Some DI boxes are only suitable for line level signals. Those cannot be used.

    If the DI box should offer speaker simulation or attenuation, these features need to be inactive. Some DI boxes don't allow complete deactivation. Here is a list of a few DI boxes, which…
    Burkhard
    March 20, 2015 at 10:43 AM

    Is there any DI box that will allow me to either not use the cabinet or bypass the cabinet so I can profile without the cabinet being cranked at full volume? I like the quiet process with the reactive load but I want to get the best profile possible ?

    You still need the cabinet if using a DI box. You can useva load box instead but the amp won’t behave exactly the same way as the load box impedance wwillmeither be fixed or a set curve (reactive load boxes) to approximate a specific speaker. The impedance curve pf the speaker load affects the amp driving it an vice versa. You won’t get the fully authentic amp experience using a a loadbox instead of a speaker but you may still l9ke the results.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Amcolan

    I saw this. But im still confused on whether the DI box is simply in addition to the cabinet or are we using a DI that can withstand the load and that will protect the amp. Or do we still need to use a cabinet in this case. If were using a DI with no cabinet then isnt that essentially a load box? Like the suhr RL

    a Direct Amp PROFILE capable DI box just taps the signal between power amp and speaker, converts it to line level and let's the PROFILER use this to create a (Direct Amp) PROFILE, which can later be merged with a Studio PROFILE to create a Merged PROFILE that delivers an absolutely authentic division between the amp and the cab.

    As soon as you are introducing a load box of any sort the result will not be authentic anymore.

    Are one of the DI boxes better than the other? Is it worth the extra money to get the Kemper version vs for example the Behringer g100 or the Art Xdirect?


    I have a radial Pro D2. Would that work as a direct box along with the cabinet as the load? Or will one of the direct boxes in the other thread yield better results?

    Edited once, last by Amcolan (July 5, 2024 at 3:30 AM).

    Quote from DonPetersen

    ?

    I've been following a discussion about Differences in sound between modern devices that today (in 2024) allow you to realize a digital copy of your analog Amp sound. (It was not about Modellers, it was about different profilers) and somebody at some point, came out with a sentence like this:

    ''As soon as you are introducing a profiler* of any sort the result will not be authentic ananymore.''

    So, when I read Your post, it was funny 'cause ..reminded that discussion.

    Quote from Amcolan

    Are one of the DI boxes better than the other? Is it worth the extra money to get the Kemper version vs for example the Behringer g100 or the Art Xdirect?

    I don't know, from that list the only one I have is the Behringer® GI100 Ultra-G and it works.

    • Official Post
    Quote from Sollazzon

    I've been following a discussion about Differences in sound between modern devices that today (in 2024) allow you to realize a digital copy of your analog Amp sound. (It was not about Modellers, it was about different profilers) and somebody at some point, came out with a sentence like this:

    ''As soon as you are introducing a profiler* of any sort the result will not be authentic ananymore.''

    So, when I read Your post, it was funny 'cause ..reminded that discussion.

    you can find pretty much any statement about literally anything on the web these days, that doesn't surprise me at all.

    I did however wonder about the point of bringing this up in this discussion.

    anyway, back to topic please :)

    Quote from DonPetersen

    you can find pretty much any statement about literally anything on the web these days, that doesn't surprise me at all.

    I did however wonder about the point of bringing this up in this discussion.

    anyway, back to topic please :)

    In your opinion, is there a less expensive DI box that yields the same results as the Kemper box? I’d rather not spend $130 if I don’t have too. But if that’s what I have to do I will.

    I read through all 12 pages of that old thread and there are so many random opinions that it’s making me just lean towards the Kemper box

    I have never tried a DI box, but have liked Kemper profiles based on DIs more than standard studio profiles.

    I was going to go with the Behringer Ultra-DI DI600P at around $28 USD.

    Then I saw a PYLE on Amazon for like $12 USD.

    Then my wife got involved so I ended up ordering the Two Note Captor 8 ($229 USD). Having the ability to play silently into my DAW makes all the difference.


    That said, the cheaper options or the Kemper DI may provide better results. The theory is the speakers impedance changes with frequency, etc and this works the amps output differently.

    Since the Captor has its own "speaker load" it has a fixed sound that may not change much with various speakers attached.


    Most DI boxes are limited by their transformer. All a DI box does is setup a resistor network to decrease the voltage coming from the amp down to Line/Mic level. Then a transformer is used to electrically isolate the units and it also creates the balanced signals needed for XLR mic cables.

    The quality/flatness of the transformer is the thing that will alter the sound the most.

    If you trust a cheaper company to make a good flat transformer, go cheap. Else get the Kemper so you KNOW its right. Eliminates the guess work.


    When I was young I would get the $12 one. Older now, I would get the Kemper and sleep better at night.