adding a fx but no sound before storing

    I have an existing rig and add for example a delay. During several tweakings I can't listen to it (for reasons of judgement) because there's no sound. Only when I store that rig first then I can hear the result for the first time. It appears to me that this is a malfunction. I guess I have to be able to listen every time what I'm doing (after loading preset) before I want to store. Am I right? Or if not what am I doing wrong here?

    (Later....) It appear's now that not any fx will sound, even after restarting the profiler...!

    Edited 2 times, last by theplayer (July 1, 2023 at 3:53 PM).

    I don’t know if this is relate or completely different but I have had a problem in the past where adding an effect made no difference to the sound until the effect was tweaked in some way (moving any control or saving). I have reported this as a bug a few times. I believe it has already been fixed but I haven’t done any editing for a few weeks as I have been too busy with other stuff.

    I guess, as a "Professional" PROFILER user you know that there are many ways how to do that. "Adding a delay" is probably the most unspecific term possible.

    Do you for example open module DLY and then dial the BROWSE knob and select delay preset "Marvin"?

    None of this all, Burkhard. And yes: I'm a pretty professional Profiler user and I know my way to get where I want to be when searching for the right sound of songs. I can provide you with lots of examples. But I know not everything...! I guess that's what this forum is all about...

    Meanwhile I have found what I wanted! Thank you, Burkhard and all the others for their support!:thumbup::)

    I'm sorry I don't know that anymore, cmbrowns. If I now add a delay then I can listen all the way to what I have changed in the parameters before a definite store. And that was the whole issue. I couldn't achieve this and couldn't 'find out why. I might have done something wrong then, who will know.

    But I'm glad I'm back in business now...:)

    We are here to help and I'm glad you fixed the issue!

    I had offered one scenario how this might have happened (Effect Section switched off). Other than that I have doubts, that the scenario you describe is possible and suspect it's a misunderstanding.

    But to provide exact support, we need to know how you "added a delay". That term could refer to at least twenty different ways to load an effect across PROFILER user interface and Rig Manager. It seems you don't want to specify that and keep it as a secret.

    Hi Burkhard, no way I want to keep everything I do a secret. That's not the way you run a forum too! And surely I'm glad I can tribute to this forum with everything I've got and do. For me it's always a two way street (but you are in the lead...)

    What I do is this. At first I look for an suitable rig between my 3000 songs (backupped) (or more, I haven't counted them yet!) And yes, I still play and having played a lot in the last 30 years: about 40/50 gigs a year in the good old times, mostly rock and tribute rock like Wishbone Ash with two solo guitar players. We named our band Whischlone Ash... and performed in Germany and Belgium.

    Back to the story. For now there are 997 rigs present in RM. Most of the time one of them has a fine basis for me with a right sounding amp, (let's say a Marshall JCM800 2203) That specific rig consists of a few fx like a comp, a chorus and a gate. Not completey satisfied with that because I'm looking for a lead part (being a rock solo guitar player) so now I start determine which fx and sounds are audible in that song.

    Example I hear a kind of chorus but I miss something in that sound. Next I spend much time in purely listening. In the end I come with a Phaser Vibe with a slightly wah. That matches to what I'm looking for.

    And now I come to the point. I need also a DELAY, so I ADD a DELAY to that rig. I press the Delay button and

    find me suitable delay and again I start to listen What is the tempo of the song? What about the feedback? How many repeats do I need? What volume must I have? Being careful for not drowning in the song or to setting everything too loud etc. And so I work on to my best result.

    I guess it's my way of using words that are not custom Profiler language... But as long we think he same , nothing can go wrong, right?

    Listen to what I described here...with the phaser vibe

    https://voca.ro/1gel8JgBjOFf

    As Burkhard said though, ‘ADD A DELAY’ can mean several different things. Are you right clicking with the mouse and using the context menu and sub menus to select? Are you loading a preset or Effect Type or Default settings etc?

    Alternatively, are you using the Presets area of Rig Manager? Here you can double click or drag and drop to add the effect. The problem for the team at Kemper is that it is possible for one of these methods to have a problem while the others work. In order to track down the problem they need to know exactly what the issue is. For example, I had a problem a few months ago when loading effects and the effect didn’t take effect until I saved or moved one of the controls. If I only loaded the preset there was no effect present. However, this ONLY happened if I added the effect one way. I think it was drag and drop from the RM presets area but can’t remember for sure. I reported it support as a bug with all the steps involved and it now seems to be fixed. If I hadn’t explained the details of how I “ADD A DELAY” they wouldn’t have been able to find the cause.

    Thanks! Lets drill down, what "I press the Delay button and find me suitable delay and again I start to listen" means.

    So, you seem to be working at the front panel ("Delay button") and not in Rig Manager, correct?

    With the DLY module open, how do you "find" your suitable delay? BROWSE knob, TYPE knob or how?

    How do you know the delay is "suitable", if you cannot hear it - since your starting statement was "adding fx, but no sound before storing"?

    Let's assume you search through the list of effect categories/types/defaults and presets using TYPE and BROWSE, do you just select or do you effectively load the effect?

    And how do you load: via Autoload or manual Load of default or preset?

    If preset, is it one of the factory presets or one you created yourself? All KEMPER factory presets are in on state. But you could have created effect presets in off state yourself.

    Or do you just load the effect type? In this case the parameter settings are kept, just the effect algorithm changes. And if MIx was already low before, you might not hear the new effect type.

    Your wording leaves open, if beyond "finding" an effect, you are also loading it and how. Please keep in mind, that nobody else has reported such a fundamental issue. Perhaps you could share a video demonstrating how you "press the Delay button and find your suitable delay and start to listen".

    I see I have to explain much more than I have assumed. OK. If you still need a video after reading what's below, then I'll make one. Hopefully I answered all your questions.

    First of all: I have a studio for rehearsing and recording demo's and songs. Look at my attachment for my setup. Look also below for how I record or rehearse:, with sometimes 5 songs after another. Easy rehearsing parts with highlighted looping function...

    I always work at the front of the profiler. Every time I have made a new setting or having add an fx (= having pressed the corresponding button!), I listen first, My studio monitors are always on so I hear everything what I'm doing (with my guitar hanging around my neck) and always with the song playing that I hear at the same time. Is all in the end perfect for me, then I hit Store.

    From this point it's always easy to make slightly changes and store again (or make a second version!) And finally I assign all needed rigs to my midi peal. With this midi pedal (128 program changes) I never miss a sound after programming....

    So finding the right delay (or any other fx!) is a matter of good listening to the original in the song and then go for one of the most coresponding one in the profiler and then it's fine tuning. This way I also got to that phaser/vibe solo sound.

    I'm indeed searching rigs through the Browse knob and the 4 rig knobs (which bring me alfabethically faster to the wanted rig than the other two), But besides these searching options I mostly use RM which is always connected to my profler an this method is the fastest! You can see right away the rig's name, the used amp etc...

    About loading. For searching fx you of course need the Browse knob. Then it's Load Type or Load Preset and then it's tweaking... I often copy a wanted fx from one of my rigs and paste it to a new rigs. The same with a good sounding amp. I copy this one to a rig with a not suitable amp and replace it with the one that's better.

    Of course every time I have to rename, to replace or to store this action. It's a matter of what I want to do. But this way you get different versions of the original rig in your backup. Saves time for the next time...

    https://docdro.id/qsedNpu

    Thanks, but unfortunately most of what you describe is not related to the question, how you arrive at a scenario you add an effect and then don't hear it before storing!? There must be a very concrete scenario of two or three steps how you do that. I don't understand why it is so difficult to get to that point. When you write "having add an fx (= having pressed the corresponding button!)" I have no idea, which button you are reffering to. Or do you mean you switch on the effect module? So the effect is already in the module, you just switch it on?

    1. I already gave one hint, what can happen if you just load an effect type. A Mix of 0% could stay at 0%.

    2. Another aspect could be DLY&REV Routing in Rig Settings, which determines the sigbnal routing between DLY and REV modules, but is not part of the effect itself. So regardless if you load an effect type, an effect preset or copy/paste an effect, the signal routing has an impact and is independent.

    3. An effect preset could include the effect in off state. You could also copy an effect in off state and if you paste it's still in off state.

    These three scenarios explain, that "adding an effect" doesn't immediately lead to a sound change. None of these explains why the sound would change the moment you store the Rig. And I have never seen such a scenario. Please publish a video of that scenario. Don't show your environment. Show the PROFILER front panel with its display plus buttons you press and knobs you dial. And if Rig Manager is involved, show that too. I'd like to see where the headphones icon is in Rig Manager.

    OK, Burkhard, I’ll try again.

    Step 1 I look for a rig that I want. When I think I found one in my collection, I first look at the amp and try

    this one with my guitar for the sound....mmmm...not what I like. Now I remember a song in my

    collection in which the amp had the right sound. I copy that amp and paste it in rig I’m working on.

    Step 2 There are 4 existing fx in that rig. I like 2 of them and I delete the other two. Now I want two new fx:

    a delay and a chorus.

    Step 3 First the delay. I now have two possibilities:

                   1. Again I listen to a couple of delays which I used in some of my songs. All my rigs have song

    names and in many cases I now how they sound of the delaypart.

    Example: The delay in Wicked Game ( Chris Isaac) sounds totally different from the one in

    New Year’s Day(U2). I know that because I have played all my thousands of rigs in the past

    and most of them more than once!

    In this case I copy that desired delay, go back to my rig, press the delay button again (a

    random delay is shown!) and I press Paste by which that existing delay gets replaced by this

    new one. Without further tweaking I now know I have the right delay in an instant.

                   2. I start from scatch and press the Delay button on the right at the front. I pick a single delay or

    a legacy delay or ...etc. and start changing parameters. This can be a quite exhausting job if

    you don’t know how those parameters can affect each other, not to mention the meaning of

    such a parameter (what it does) I’m such a guy...

    It may be obvious that I always choose for option one. This is the best way if you have

    tons of rigs to choose from (like me, because I keep all of them backupped)

    Now about adding. Besides that delay I need other fx. Let’s say I can’t find a good one between all in my collection. In that case I want to add a compressot to my rig. I press an empty slot at the front of my profiler. I turn the browse knob to look for the compressor. Found it! I open the corresponding pages for settings (volume, intensity etc.) and turn the knobs underneath to my desired settings.

    (and this counts allso for step one and two: always my guitar is hanging around my neck with my studio monitors at a certain volume. So I can hear every altered sound (even when I have found that perfect delay in another rig) I want to make sure it fits in what I need.

    Finally (as I said before..) I’m not at all a pro! I do the best of my abillitiesto get a decent sound which matches the original. And I often get admiring views to how I sound compared to the original sounds. That’s good enough for me. I spend really a lot of time daily to look for a specific sound I need, despite lack of knowledge in some cases. Then I look on the internet where someone explains what he uses in his cover and how he gets there. I try to copy such clues and tricks.

    Edited once, last by theplayer (July 14, 2023 at 11:21 AM).

    I had already mentioned "DLY&Rev Routing" in Rig Settings. Please check that in the destination Rig(s). You could copy/paste effects into the DLY and REV modules, but the sound result could be very different based on the level of DLY&REV Routing in source and destination Rig. Description of this parameter with pictures can be found in the Main Manual.