Kemper as a soundcard

  • Hi!

    Just new here, was excited to make a big update (I had an OS older than 7.x) and go through all the procedures only to find out that even with Asio4ALL drivers my Reaper DAW is intractable with K as Sound Card. It has horrible latency on my Dell XPS with Windows10.

    I'll have to hook back my Focusrite and use its drivers :(

    What a let down!

    Michele

  • Windows 11 Pro here. Asio4all v2.15 or beta v2.16 works terrible when trying to record the Profiler via USB to Nuendo 13. It works sometimes for a little bit and then suddenly these remnants of synth sounds appear like the bit rates are mismatched even though everything is set to 44.1Khz. I can't believe how long it is taking Kemper to come up with this ASIO driver! :(

  • Please take the time Kemper to make good drivers. So few companies do that.

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • Please take the time Kemper to make good drivers. So few companies do that.

    Is it even possible to make good drivers? :/

    Windows is the wild west for reliability. And Apple seems to have more issues than Windows (which makes no sense).

    I Normally buy Behringer UMC404HDs and I have no issues. But I decided to buy another brand last time. It was heavier, had VU LEDs, etc If the CPU is busy at all...I mean at all... the audio warbles like you have a weird tremolo going. Tried various buffers, no joy.

    I always think of getting a more expensive interface until I read the reviews of "its bad.", "Crackles", "etc". Makes me wonder how good USB is. Then I remember my Firewire days and how that NEVER worked ever. And dont get me started on Bluetooth. I have never even seen that work on Windows.

    I have not tried the Kemper because I record a bunch of other stereo stuff like drums, keys, bass, mics, etc But some day I may have to test it for the giggles.

  • I always think of getting a more expensive interface until I read the reviews of "its bad.", "Crackles", "etc". Makes me wonder how good USB is. Then I remember my Firewire days and how that NEVER worked ever. And dont get me started on Bluetooth. I have never even seen that work on Windows.

    Wow 😮

    I used a Focusrite Saffire Pro14 over Firewire on my Macs for well over 10 years and everything was rock solid all the time. Literally never had an issue. Even after Focusrite stopped supporting the unit and stopped updating drivers it rand like a dream. . Then I had to upgrade my Mac and it no longer supported Firewire connections so I had to get a new interface. I did tons of research and settled on the MOTU Ultralite MK5. When it works it is brilliant. The feature set meets all my needs and the control software is good and easy to work. However, it is totally flakey. Drops connection randomly, introduces crackles and pops randomly. MOTU replaced the first one as it was faulty. The replacement is better but after a year of troubleshooting with support it still scares me to use it for anything critical.

    They issued a new firmware update and new drivers recently which seem to have improved things quite a bit but it still isn’t perfect.

    Oh, how I miss my Firewire Focusrite.

  • Well, Firewire worked for a little while. I had an Alesis Multimix 16 so I could record 8 mics at once for drums. I retired the PC it ran on and gave it to my young daughter. I finally dumpstered the Multimix because it would never run again. I tried PCs, laptops, everything I owned for a few years and it never worked again. While working on it I read that laptop Firewire chipsets were trash and they didnt work :wacko:

    I should have kept it because it still worked as a mixer. But I was so mad I just tossed it into the trash.

    So I bought my Line 6 UX8 (USB 2.0) and it worked flawlessly for many many years. Well the USB worked. The multiplexer on the input was terrible and I lost most of the channels over time.

    I only run my Kemper on Rig Manager USB. And it connects every time no issues. :thumbup:

  • Windows is the wild west for reliability. And Apple seems to have more issues than Windows (which makes no sense).

    I'm unsure why you think that, and I don't believe it is true. It may be true for you, but certainly not for 99% of users.

    This is important when you deal with audio:

    - buy decent hardware

    - understand how to meet bandwidth requirements on a USB bus

    - don't tweak the OS just because some random YouTuber thinks he found another holy grail

    Get in touch with Profiler online support team here

  • So I bought my Line 6 UX8 (USB 2.0) and it worked flawlessly for many many years. Well the USB worked. The multiplexer on the input was terrible and I lost most of the channels over time.

    funny you mention line 6! with the exception of the UX8, ive been using the UX series exclusively for all of my recording over the past (almost) 20 years. unlike the majority of Line 6 products, i have a real soft spot for them. the UX1, UX2, and the KB37 have been my rock-solid best friends. ^^

    "No socks? No problem."

  • - don't tweak the OS just because some random YouTuber thinks he found another holy grail

    This. Cannot emphasize it enough. So many out there telling you how to do things without reflecting the particular situation. Youtube teaches brilliant things but the "10 tips to do this and that" are sometimes clickbait of the year...

  • I'm unsure why you think that, and I don't believe it is true. It may be true for you, but certainly not for 99% of users.

    This is important when you deal with audio:

    - buy decent hardware

    - understand how to meet bandwidth requirements on a USB bus

    - don't tweak the OS just because some random YouTuber thinks he found another holy grail

    Where can I read more about this bandwidth thingy? My Apollo Twin USB has been 99% fantastic. I just can't get low latency without crackles. (apart from dsp effects of course)

    Kemper PowerRack |Kemper Stage| Rivera 4x12 V30 cab | Yamaha DXR10 pair | UA Apollo Twin Duo | Adam A7X | Cubase DAW
    Fender Telecaster 62 re-issue chambered mahogany | Kramer! (1988 or so...) | Gibson Les Paul R7 | Fender Stratocaster HBS-1 Classic Relic Custom Shop | LTD EC-1000 Evertune | 1988 Desert Yellow JEM

  • There is a very nice eBook to address all kinds of audio performance issues on PCs. It is called "Glitch Free" and was written by Brad Robinson, the creator of Cantabile (a great VST instrument host). Its recommendations aren't Cantabile-specific, but relevant for any audio application (DAW or other) that relies on continuous throughput without interruptions.

    Here's the link to the eBook: https://www.cantabilesoftware.com/glitchfree/

    I've been able to get all my audio systems to pretty much rock-solid performance at low latencies (128 samples) using these recommendations and a bit of common sense...

    My audio interfaces are mostly RME - Babyface or Fireface UCX / UFX - RME has a well-deserved reputation for rock-solid performance, also on Windows systems.

    Cheers,

    Torsten

  • - don't tweak the OS just because some random YouTuber thinks he found another holy grail

    In my opinion, the best ressources for system tweaks in an audio context normally come from DAW manufactures (Steinberg, Presonus and so on) and audio hardware manufactures. Some of them also provide ressources on how to fix some problems regarding low latency audio.

    And regarding Asio4All, you have to keep in mind that it's an unofficial, generic audio driver meant for devices which don't provide a dedicated driver by themself. A great project which saved the life of a lot of musicians over many years. But it also means, it is not guaranteed to work perfect with every system combination. And it can't compete with the performance of companies like RME (and others) who are able to implement a driver, optimized for their devices. And sadly, it takes a lot of time and knowledge to implement a really good audio driver.

  • Where can I read more about this bandwidth thingy?

    TBH, USB bandwidth is mostly a non-issue, as long as you don't run oodles of audio channels. You can run more than 100 audio channels in parallel over a USB 2 connection, so as long as you have a dedicated USB port for your audio interface, bandwidth is typically not an issue.

    If we look at a typical audio stream of 48 kHz with 24 bits resolution, this gives us a data rate (bandwidth) requirement of 1,15 megabits per second. USB 1 has a capacity of 12 Mbit/s, so it is good enough for stereo or four channels, but more will drive it to its limits.

    When we get to USB 2.0 (high-speed) , we have a bandwidth of 480 MBit/s, so sending 40 and more channels over USB 2.0 is not really a problem - with this, you address most realistic usage scenarios.

  • TBH, USB bandwidth is mostly a non-issue, as long as you don't run oodles of audio channels. You can run more than 100 audio channels in parallel over a USB 2 connection, so as long as you have a dedicated USB port for your audio interface, bandwidth is typically not an issue.

    If we look at a typical audio stream of 48 kHz with 24 bits resolution, this gives us a data rate (bandwidth) requirement of 1,15 megabits per second. USB 1 has a capacity of 12 Mbit/s, so it is good enough for stereo or four channels, but more will drive it to its limits.

    When we get to USB 2.0 (high-speed) , we have a bandwidth of 480 MBit/s, so sending 40 and more channels over USB 2.0 is not really a problem - with this, you address most realistic usage scenarios.

    This may be true in general, but let me chime in with something.

    I'm a bit of a PC nerd, and whenever I've bought a PC, I've bought it in parts and assembled it myself. I just say that to say that I take a keen interest in computer specs. I've stumbled over the fact that a lot if not most (all?) PC motherboards have the USB inputs arranged in pairs, where each pair is controlled by a chip. I think one USB chip (and it's two connected inputs) make up a USB bus (??). And it seems very commonplace to use different chips for the various busses. I don't know if it's about cutting costs, so there's a high performance "good" USB chip for the first few (neccessary) sets of USB inputs, and then a cheaper and worse-performing chip for the "surplus" ones. But at the very least, when you connect your interface to a USB connector, it matters what is connected to the other connector(s) on the bus. Or in other words, what's connected to the USB input next to it.. My motherboard is nothing fancy and cost about $300 when I bought it. It's not cheap but not high end either. Maybe the different USB inputs are designed for different purposes, although no motherboard documentation I've ever read has ever stated that "this USB is better to use for such and such device". But that's how it actually is in my experience. My Kemper, my Focusrite, and back when I had a Helix, they would behave differently depending on which USB input I connected them to. Certain inputs would always result in problems updating or transferring presets, or trying to record USB audio. While others have always been reliable, and still are to this day, about a decade after I purchased the computer.

    I've noticed the same for the SATA (hard drive) connectors on the motherboard. Mine has six SATA-connectors for hard drives, and they are arranged in pairs, and each pair is controlled by a unique controller chip. So three different chips, in other words. I remember having the same problem when trying to use a high speed SSD hard drive. There was a huge performance difference depending on which SATA connector I used. One pair let it reach its advertised performance, one pair of connectors cut the performance in half, and the last pair of connectors would not even recognize the disk. They would however work fine with optical HDDs (which don't come near SSD performance).

    So long story short, different connectors on motherboards often have different controller chips, which is why customer support will often advise you to try different USB ports. And then you might be like "what the hell would that achieve, USB is USB right?" to which the answer is "actually, no, it's more complicatred than that". Bandwidth is one thing, but with hard drives for example, you would differ between transfer bandwidth of one big file, and of a 1000 small files. A hard drive can be good at one but not the other. Likewise, you can be below the max bandwidth of a USB bus but still stress it's ability to process by effectively "DDoSing" it with tons of small operations. Poorly explained but I think I made myself understood. Just something to keep in mind.

    Edited 6 times, last by Preacher (February 14, 2024 at 5:45 PM).

  • I'm unsure why you think that, and I don't believe it is true. It may be true for you, but certainly not for 99% of users.

    My point was anecdotal. Windows does not seem to be as stringent with their drivers. Anyone can sell anything with any drivers. This creates an environment of "nothing is reliable". Your experience will differ greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer. This reaches into the hardware itself as well which ranges from good to barely works.

    If Windows drivers were easy, no one would have to run ASIO4ALL. Windows clearly has some issues with its sound design in general if it requires people to run some rando generated generic driver to get Windows to do a basic function. In fact looking at PROPERTIES on devices in Windows makes me question if they even tried at all. There are tons of properties and none of them are what the thing is. You get stuff like "Unknown Device", "Sound Device", or "Profiler". That is the hallmark of poor design.

    Most of the Windows issues I hear with games is sound related. Another thing that tries to play multiple sounds in real time. These may not be driver related in full, since many are "a person was behind me and I never heard them" type issues. Once again, something that is very simple to implement, but many cant do it.

    Apple seems to focus more on drivers and hardware. Their goal is to be simple and reliable. To me Apple should be the gold standard for audio because they seem to have better requirements. But most of the complaints I read on this forum are people with Apples. And stuff I read in other places seem to be "it works good, but dont run a newer OS than Ooga Booga 13". I have never run an Apple PC and I never would, so I have no experience here.

    Since you guys (Kemper) are actually writing drivers, you know much more than I do what the landscape is like.

  • funny you mention line 6! with the exception of the UX8, ive been using the UX series exclusively for all of my recording over the past (almost) 20 years. unlike the majority of Line 6 products, i have a real soft spot for them. the UX1, UX2, and the KB37 have been my rock-solid best friends. ^^

    The UX8 was the best thing I ever bought for guitar/recording. It did it all. Dual PODs, 8 channels, etc. It had vocal channel models, amp models, etc. I used it for everything. Until it died. Then I got a Kemper to replace it :love: