Kemper Mini (Revisited)

    A “mini” offering is the only thing I’m missing from the Kemper hardware lineup. I would love to have one I that I can leave in a backpack as a backup to my rack & remote rig instead of my Atomic AA6. (Thankfully, I’ve never had to use my backup because of an issue with my A rig- that’s with many shows since 2013.)

    However, I’d really love to have it for one-off fly dates and certain throw-and-go festival gigs. The Stage is impressive, but is way larger than what I’m personally looking for in this context.


    From a sales perspective, a “mini” is a great way to get the existing customer base to purchase additional hardware.

    Ya know... I'm a pretty big fan of a lot of the kemper effects and drives etc. I'm probably not the only one who might think this but a new unit that has more effect features with extra processing for number of effects and level of sonic dsp depth, would be a great effects unit 4 cable method style while also having the profiling capabilities. Guess I could do this now with the Stage but, well you know.

    I know the effects are not the main focus here but it would be hella cool.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    not trying to be funny or argumentative but I genuinely didn’t understand your previous comment.

    All good man, we just had that pseudo-philosophic discourse about this Kemper generation being like the T-model and that so many today (mere claim) need an Ioniq 5. My Avatar was just so tired about thinking what the truth is that it fell asleep 8o.

    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Quote from Awesome_Elvis

    Ya know... I'm a pretty big fan of a lot of the kemper effects and drives etc. I'm probably not the only one who might think this but a new unit that has more effect features with extra processing for number of effects and level of sonic dsp depth, would be a great effects unit 4 cable method style while also having the profiling capabilities. Guess I could do this now with the Stage but, well you know.

    I know the effects are not the main focus here but it would be hella cool.

    I don't see the reason why they should do so ?! :?:

    This unit would be more expensive, Kemper Team should developpe another Rig manager for those additional effects, all the Kemper familly could become obsolete sooner --> Desapoint from a lot of new owners (last 2/3 years) and i assume it would go against the Kemper's philosophy that means "our products are reliable and will last a long (long long) time" and We make evolutions on the same platform during years....

    Many of things you are waiting for can already be done with existing devices.

    I think it would be better to purpose a cheaper backup for happy Kemper's owners.

    And it would be great to conquer new ones who want to buy a 1000$ modeler and hesitate between a Helix LT, a boss GT-1000 or a headrush Pedalboard.

    We always want more and more stuffs and possibilities. I see a lot of poeple on forums who want to buy a Helix just (and only) for FX. I don't understand why they just buy a HX FX, they want more to don't use it ? So they'll pay more....:rolleyes:

    More is better ?

    ... and THIS is mostly my point as well.

    Lets say that Kemper puts its time and effort into a new KPA2 that has a cool color LCD touch screen, dual amp capability, and routing just like Fractal has with a GUI on the PC that is just as good as Fractals.

    I would say ... Congratulations, you have just managed to make yourself exactly like Fractal with all their advantages but better amp sounds.

    Does anyone really think that people that have been buying a Fractal AxeIII Fx and have invested in that infrastructure is going to switch gears and buy a Kemper that isn't known for being the things that Fractal is?

    I believe that Kemper has made a name for themselves by being different than Fractal (and others). Kemper has focused on good tone, and ease of use. Sophisticated routing is fantastic ..... if you want to mess with it. The lions share of stage performers don't though.

    And after Kemper makes this "super KPA2", how much additional market share would we expect them to get? My guess is that it would be 7 years plus before they would even catch up to the existing KPA market share with the new unit, rather on get anywhere NEAR what the lower cost (<$1K) units enjoy.

    The Kemper Mini would be a product that fills the product hole Kemper currently has in their product lineup. The KPA2 (IMO) doesn't fill any gap that is worth mentioning with respect to market.

    Are there ANY people who would buy a KPA2 that wouldn't have bought a KPA? Sure, but I am guessing not that many.

    Are there ANY people who would buy a KPA Mini that wouldn't have bought a KPA Stage or other KPA? I am guessing hundreds of thousands of them.

    Now I am not saying that I wouldn't like to see a KPA2 on the horizon; however, honestly, as cool as it may be, I wouldn't be giving up my current rig for it.

    I think that my feelings are likely shared by the lions share of existing KPA users. This means that the up-take of the new KPA2 would have to survive on mostly new users.

    There is absolutely a case for creating a KPA2; however, it revolves more around parts obsolescence than it does new wiz-bang features.

    I don't really care about the price if the amount of evolution can take the win. Why would they do this? Only if they can see enough efficient and rational reasons while also having the chance to be innovative in there as well. It's totally doable, without a doubt todays chip sets and algorithms are more than conducive for it. For sure there are reasons why not to do something like this in any form factor but... give me an Eventide h9000 and the ability to profile and run multiple signal chains of amps and pedals that also has an internal poweramp for $3k+ and they take/have my monies.

    I mean really... I already have this pretty much with my stereo modded power toaster and stage for the same price so... guess I'll just run with that for now.

    Quote from Awesome_Elvis

    I don't really care about the price if the amount of evolution can take the win. Why would they do this? Only if they can see enough efficient and rational reasons while also having the chance to be innovative in there as well. It's totally doable, without a doubt todays chip sets and algorithms are more than conducive for it. For sure there are reasons why not to do something like this in any form factor but... give me an Eventide h9000 and the ability to profile and run multiple signal chains of amps and pedals that also has an internal poweramp for $3k+ and they take/have my monies.

    I mean really... I already have this pretty much with my stereo modded power toaster and stage for the same price so... guess I'll just run with that for now.

    So .... give you a $7000.00 efx engine and a $2500.00 guitar processing engine for $3K and you would be happy ..... I think that you wouldn't be alone ;).

    Still, a 3K guitar processor of ANY quality will have a very limited market. Most people who plunk around on a guitar have more like $1K of equipment including their guitar. The rare few that are good enough to play live (I would guess 1 in 10 ... maybe less) have 1K-2K in their rig including their guitar. I would guess that only 1 in 50 that gig have a rig at the level of the KPA. So .... maybe 1 out of 500 in the guitar player's market.

    Even a Kemper Mini at 1K would likely only be interesting to the 1 in 10 that play live (on average).

    It really does come down to the market you are priced in. The volume goes down as the price goes up .... and vise-versa.

    Quote from OneEng1

    So .... give you a $7000.00 efx engine and a $2500.00 guitar processing engine for $3K and you would be happy ..... I think that you wouldn't be alone ;).

    Still, a 3K guitar processor of ANY quality will have a very limited market. Most people who plunk around on a guitar have more like $1K of equipment including their guitar. The rare few that are good enough to play live (I would guess 1 in 10 ... maybe less) have 1K-2K in their rig including their guitar. I would guess that only 1 in 50 that gig have a rig at the level of the KPA. So .... maybe 1 out of 500 in the guitar player's market.

    Even a Kemper Mini at 1K would likely only be interesting to the 1 in 10 that play live (on average).

    It really does come down to the market you are priced in. The volume goes down as the price goes up .... and vise-versa.

    I hear ya but they need to only sell 1000 units to make well over a million dollars profit and with the sail of just the regular toaster and rack reaching well over into the 10s of thousands, it doesn't seem too far off, to me. I only said 3k+ to the someone's who says something like a UniT LiKe tHaT WoULd cOsT A GAZILLIONdollars. Really I know it could be made for less.

    Edited once, last by Awesome_Elvis (December 15, 2021 at 5:59 AM).

    What is needed is a mini Kpa sound card for studio desk use.

    A small box with midi capabilities that can load profile with rig manager as a plug-in in a daw and obviously working as a sound card that allow reamping.

    Just record a track and then change every profile on the fly in the daw.

    Killer in the studio and you just have to buy and bring your own midi pedalboard on stage.

    Just of this list things people say when talking about a Kemper 2 and I think it points to a Mini even more.

    1. I want more effects blocks and more flexible routing. "Kemper is for simple Amp tones, go buy an axe fx or external effects device."

    2. I want to run 2 amps and 2 cabs. "Buy a second Kemper lolololol"

    3. I wish the kemper had an audio interface built in. "There are plenty of affordable interfaces already available and most people already have one."

    While these points have some merits and the people want more from the unit, the core fundamental is the Amp tone and ability to profile. To me, these indicate that a stripped down mini version is actually more likely than a version 2 while at the same time doesn't take a mark2 off the table.

    If it were me and I had the means, I'd launch all 4 form factors in a version 2 as soon as possible. A rack, a floorboard, a mini, and a toaster with an option for built in power amp(s).

    Great post. I mostly agree with everything you said.

    For 1). I wouldn't say Kemper is simple. It is pretty darned complex ...... just not AS complex as Axe III Fx. The question isn't if people would like more effects blocks and more flexible routing IMO. Few would say they wouldn't "like" that. The question is how many people would make a buying decision based on it? Some .... sure, but hard to quantify.

    For 2). Same thing. How many people would make a buying decision on it?

    For 3). Ok, IMO you are onto something there. In fact the earlier post from JoshuaL1 is actually a quite good product idea IMO. Make a USB 3.0 box made for recording and using with a remote. That isn't the Kemper Mini I am talking about; however, it IS a great expansion of the existing infrastructure.

    You are 100% correct though. None of this takes a KPA Mark2 off the table. In fact, I would be very surprised if there isn't work going on now at Kemper for the KPA next gen project. I just think that it is going to be difficult to replace such an ecosystem of products like Kemper has with the current KPA.

    Look at the Behringer mixers for example. They took the market by storm with the X32 (full version), followed it up with a X32 Compact, X32 Performer, and X32 Rack with accessories like IEM stations, Speaker interfaces, and stage boxes.

    They did release a higher end model that was outside of this ecosystem (Ok, it can use the stage boxes and IEM boxes) called the Wing, but it is priced high enough and has higher level features, but it doesn't sell very well. Too far out of the sweet spot, and doesn't have the plethora of people familiar with it out there to run them.

    Tricky thing product management. I always say "In God we trust ...... everyone else has to bring market data" :)

    I think that Kemper still has room to expand their product lineup within the current ecosystem. The Kemper Mini and the new one today "Kemper Recording". Cool!

    I'm a little confused cause the thread was about a mini and i've already answered with my vision

    I'm sure a Kemper V2 will be launched one day.

    Will it be better ? YES, it will

    Is that time to ?

    Really, i don't think so. I even would say it would be a strategical mistake.

    I'm not in CEO secret but this is really my opinion.

    Kemper has to answer the best to all his customers.

    Honestly, i've bought a stage and met many problems. After this bad beginning, i would really, really be disapointed if they go to scheduled obsolescence. I assume that a lot of owners wouldn't like to see the price of their Device fall for resale.

    All the things you're pointing finger on are true but what is this need from ?

    I came from a Helix LT, i've lost all the things you're talking about, and what is the problem ?

    It seems as if you would like the "best" competitors on the paper to proove something or i don't know....

    Are you really often limited with slot numbers or routing ? If it's the case there's a casting mistake.

    One thing that make me laugh is that there's no other way to reach the solution but a new hardware (except for the audio interface, of course).

    Kemper has improved (a lot) its units during years. Why couldn't they make all you want in the existing ones ? I don't know the limitations they can meet....

    The Mini (lighter/cheaper/limited) would be a better choice to grow the Kemper familly nowadays, IMHO.

    I do run into limitations from time to time but I still just use a Stage live. I own or have owned all of them except the Headrush stuff. I'm mostly just generalizing what other people have said. They are more things that could be put on that list of things Kemper owners have said they would like to see. I'm good either way. Mostly pointing out that since core tone is hyperfocused and partially objective/subjectively accomplished with the limited number of effects increased in quality to maximum chip usage, and when the opposition steps in that in total, the responses from Kemper Team and the customers that seem to not want or need anything new, who often lunge right in on the topic of dual amps, more effects etc. ,to say they hope to never see a Kemper 2, would indicate a mini. A more modular approach for pedal and desktop users that offers more portability. That's all.

    Now for a kpa2, I have to point out that with the fm9 and cortex in the up and comings and staking ground in the new standards, both Kemper and line6 have a chance to take the giant leap forward and leave everyone else in the dust. If they don't then they will be left behind eventually and probably soon by anyone else. Mind you a Kemper today will still sound and feel great 20 years from now. But in way less time than that, technology will evolve, music will change , wants and needs will differ, and chip availability and cost quality will change. If they don't do anything that's fine but why wouldn't they? The Access Virus had a few different models and revisions. It's time they know it, we know it. I've watched them for almost ten years slowly develop with great success and very thought out but it does take a while for them to do things. Hopefully, they have already started at least. And like I said, if not, it doesn't really matter. Customers who bought and love their kempers will probably die with them. They will never buy anything else and that's fine too. Kemper Team themselves could eventually call it a day and never release a new form factor or revision and no more updates either and just go back to making synths again. Is that what yall want? I don't. Not yet anyways. I wanna see them flex on the competitors one more time. I hope whatever it is seems more like a Kemper3 than a 2 because of how advanced it is. They can easily compete with a new model but will they devastatingly surpass the current competitor's units, again.

    Oh, there will absolutely be a Kemper 2. As I said, eventually (in the not so distant future), the DSP chips they use will become impossible to come by and they will be forced to do a new design.

    Now, will it SOUND better? Possibly; however, how much "better" can it really sound? It isn't like it doesn't sound pretty fantastic already. People kept their tube amps around for decades. Tube amps didn't really start sounding any "better" IMO. Sure, some of them got a different grove to them. No one would ever say that it was fair to compare a Fender Blackface clean to a Mesa Triple rectifier clean. Does that mean that the Fender Blackface is a "better" amp? No, but it is definitely very different than a Triple Rect.

    The point of the Kemper Mini (and now Kemper Recorder" is that they fill a product offering that Kemper doesn't currently have. Kemper already has a product that occupies the very high end of the market for guitar processing.

    A KPA2 is coming. I have no doubt. But when it arrives, it will mostly just replace the demand by people that would have bought a KPA1. I don't believe for a minute that it will turn into an Axe III Fx or Helix. I expect that it will have the same philosophy as the existing KPA1. It will be the best guitar processor for people who want the easiest path to classic tube amp bliss across every possible tube amp.

    Sure, it will have more efx. May have more slots and somewhat better routing (but nothing like Axe III Fx .... that is too far from tube amp rigs IMO), it will likely have a color LCD touch screen, etc, etc etc. But it will also be distinctly a "Kemper", not an Axe III Fx in green ;)

    The Kemper Mini would be just a "Kemper" smaller, lighter, and cheaper with limitations not present on the Kemper Stage.