"keep the tail of the delay or reverb"
It looks like the device will also have the option for delay or reverb spill over.
Honestly, this algorithm is the most intriguing . Will they be able to detect and simulate distortions from pream and poweramp simultaneously? Will it be able to properly profile amplifiers with built-in gates or parallel distortion paths?
Wow, they claim they do profilling and I also saw the word rig on their site.
Plus it shows a "refine" page - just like Kemper.
Looks like this is heading for trouble... or maybe not, maybe they do not violate Kemper's patent - who knows.
They claim to have perfected profiling - wow, bold! Definitely interesting!
Wow, they claim they do profilling and I also saw the word rig on their site.
They call it "Capture", not profiling. We assume it's the same or similar. The term "rig" is used in many places, and Kemper most certainly doesn't have a trademark on that term.
Plus it shows a "refine" page - just like Kemper.
Again, "refine" is not a trademarked term Kemper owns.
Looks like this is heading for trouble... or maybe not, maybe they do not violate Kemper's patent - who knows.
People were saying the same thing about Positive Grid and their "Amp Match" function. Kemper would have a patent on a particular methodology, not on EQ and gain matching as a whole. It's possible that Neural has a different way of accomplishing those ends. I'm keen to try it.
hey claim to have perfected profiling - wow, bold!
The marketing copy I've seen doesn't say anything about either profiling or perfection. They claim the learning algorithm creates more realistic representations than others. Of course anybody can say anything, so we shall see.
Interested, but not in a floor based unit...
I’ll wait until I hear it and get feedback on the “feel” of the models/profiles/samples/ neural copies/rigs whatever...
The marketing buzzwords are a bit over the top, but I’ll wait (until September apparently), and see if it amounts to anything. In the meantime, I love my Kemper.
Wow, they claim they do profilling and I also saw the word rig on their site.
Plus it shows a "refine" page - just like Kemper.
Looks like this is heading for trouble... or maybe not, maybe they do not violate Kemper's patent - who knows.
They claim to have perfected profiling - wow, bold! Definitely interesting!
Something that I thought I picked up on, and correct me if I misread this, but Kemper profiles provide a "mic'ed" cab sound and do not provide "amp in the room" sound. If I read the Neural DSP stuff correctly....their AI is able to reproduce the sound to what the human ear hears. I'd like to see what this means....does this this mean they might be able to reproduce amp-in-the-room sounds? If so, game changer for sure. Please let me know if I'm offbase here.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
Something that I thought I picked up on, and correct me if I misread this, but Kemper profiles provide a "mic'ed" cab sound and do not provide "amp in the room" sound. If I read the Neural DSP stuff correctly....their AI is able to reproduce the sound to what the human ear hears. I'd like to see what this means....does this this mean they might be able to reproduce amp-in-the-room sounds? If so, game changer for sure. Please let me know if I'm offbase here.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
The PROFILER can do the so-called amp-in-the-room sound by taking a Direct Amp Profile (from the speaker out of an amp using a DI box that can handle speaker level signals, preferably the Kemper DI, and playing it back through a neutral power amp (like the one in the PowerHead) over a guitar cabinet.
Something that I thought I picked up on, and correct me if I misread this, but Kemper profiles provide a "mic'ed" cab sound and do not provide "amp in the room" sound. If I read the Neural DSP stuff correctly....their AI is able to reproduce the sound to what the human ear hears. I'd like to see what this means....does this this mean they might be able to reproduce amp-in-the-room sounds? If so, game changer for sure. Please let me know if I'm offbase here.
Cheers...
Todd in Chicago
The only thing that gives you an amp in the room sound is an amp in the room. Though, Universal Audio via their OX Box apparently does a really marvelous job with emulating a "room" feel in its cab emulations. At least that's what I hear from some people. Perhaps something closer to that would give a "profile" or "capture" the type of response and feel some players want and feel a bit less "plastic" or "boxy".
The PROFILER can do the so-called amp-in-the-room sound by taking a Direct Amp Profile (from the speaker out of an amp using a DI box that can handle speaker level signals, preferably the Kemper DI, and playing it back through a neutral power amp (like the one in the PowerHead) over a guitar cabinet.
Don....
Thank you! Now I understand! Much appreciated sir! And I think I heard once (and just looked) that in Rig Exchange, those are typically marked with a DI in the Rig Name....?
Cheers, and thank you for the knowledge drop!
Todd in Chicago
I have a lot of the Neural stuff, Nolly/Plini/Abasi/Parallax, they are pretty fantastic. I have some power supply/PC noise issues, so I have trouble with my own DIs, but when I get DIs to mix, I often prefer the Neural stuff to the Kemper. as easy as the KPA is to re-amp, it's so much easier in a vst.
This unit might help with my noise issues, and if it sounds any better than Neural's current stuff, it'll be a no-brainer for me.
First hardware that has me seriously interested since the Kemper was released.
Interesting:
Udo Solzer and Felix Eichas have some very interesting papers on approaches slightly closer (and potentially better) thank Kemper's.
But our approach relies on a much more fluid structure.
Kemper seems to follow a more rigid Weiner-Hammerstein topology, for which the non-linearity transfer function is static (hyperbolic tangent or something of the sorts) and the profiling process adjusting the FIRs and saturation block gain.
Our deep learning approach allows us to use more sophisticated loss functions (ours is based on human perception, which results in a much more "accurate" black-box model). Of course, you need a lot more computational power, which is another reason we had to make such a powerful unit: when using Neural Capture the neural network uses 4 SHARC cores in tandem for training).
This approach generalizes better (it can cope with a wider range of sounds), and can even learn parallel signal paths (such as multiband distortion or pedals with a clean blend, dual microphones).
Very interesting times...
I tried their plugins, but I still prefer the Kemper and the profiles I have. I don't know, the tones I get doesn't 100% convince me.
Anyway, it will be interesting to hear how they will match real amps with their technology.
No way I'll give them 200€ in advance for something that will (probably?) happen in September!
From a terminology point of view both what one does with recreating a signal chain is either a „model“ or a supervised learning based on a „[network] architecture“.
The more complex the network topology the more processing power is required to keep the training in a reasonable time frame (how long is reasonable?).
Each training step calculates the results of a function which is „weighted“. The result of the calculation are then compared by using an error function (how good is the function?). The cumulation of these weights makes the individual sound.
First papers on AI approaches are decades old. They give a great technical way to solve problems but there are too many variables that one can say that they generally outperform „classical“ approaches.
I can imagine that by throwing a lot of processing power on the problem, one can achieve satisfying results.
I hope Kemper is hiring some students who are dealing with some proof-of-concepts of the next generation training process / network architecture. It has been just a matter of time that someone comes up with a competing product.
Well, we will wait and see. Without having an idea of what all those technical expressions mean, I rely on my ears and the feel I get while playing with a digital unit. This new thing will have its real chance to prove what it claims: to be a much better Kemper in a much better Helix housing. By now I can't imagine anything being "better" than my sound I achieved with my Kempers, but who knows. Yes, maybe more convenience, more options and less weight are good points. Maybe. At least soundwise I have already reached my goal.
That all being said, basically this new unit is what I myself and others have been requesting for years for a Kemper 2 version in this forum. I hate to say it again but... sorry I've BEEN saying it again and again: Someone else WILL do it if you don't hurry to do it. These are the fast times we live in and the guitar players wishes are simple: they want EVERYTHING in an indistinguishable real world quality with every option and every effect existing in different low weight and affordable unit formats. Quite easy to produce right 
. Let's see if this new unit will keep what it promises. At least soundwise I can say that it is is a contradiction to try to sound more realistic than a real tube amp. How would THAT be possible. And with my Kempers I feel like I at least already have this sound and feel on stage.
Btw: have you noticed its price? Symbolic. The business world is hard and not forgiving. But I am sure CK will react.
If I feel the results are meaningfully better than Kemper profiling my amps will have no issue jumping ship if not having both. That's a big "IF" however. It is even possible they use some technique in some ways more "advanced" than Kemper but nonetheless have worse results. I won't be surprised if the results are great or even the best for me -- or if there's nuances that have me prefer Kemper.
I am allergic to exaggerated claims like ...
"The Quad Cortex is here" ... while it's not here until September earliest
"The most powerful modeler on the planet" ... gimme a break, it's not even here yet. And you as the manufacturer will never provide an objective rating.
This being said, I already dislike what they do / how they do. Will be very hard for them to change my mind. Just because of their attitude in early marketing.
I won't go back to using FRFR and I won't carry a separate power amp for my cab.
I wish more companies incorporated their own power amp in their modeleres/profilers etc
Kemper is the really only option for me at this point.
I have a lot of the Neural stuff, Nolly/Plini/Abasi/Parallax, they are pretty fantastic. I have some power supply/PC noise issues, so I have trouble with my own DIs, but when I get DIs to mix, I often prefer the Neural stuff to the Kemper. as easy as the KPA is to re-amp, it's so much easier in a vst.
This unit might help with my noise issues, and if it sounds any better than Neural's current stuff, it'll be a no-brainer for me.
First hardware that has me seriously interested since the Kemper was released.
I solved my pc noise issues after I realized it was usb that was the culprit (for my setup). Breaking the usb earth loop, isolating the usb power (from pc usb port) and for powered usb devices, using external low noise linear 5V power supplies did the job for me.
There are some tools out there.
