Tone struggles

    I may have originally posted this in the wrong forum, apologies!

    So I've been a Kemper user for a little over two months, mostly live, and it is incredible, as expected!

    I mainly use a Telecaster. I also use a Strat from time to time. They sound great, mostly, I'll get to this.

    I also have an Ibanez JSM-10, essentially a 335, and a Gibson SG. Now, both of these guitars sound great through valve amps, my previous amp was a Two Rock.
    I am having real problems getting the Humbucker equipped guitars to react how they would through real amps. I'm tweaking all the parameters, Definition etc as opposed to drastically tweaking the EQs, and I'm drawing blanks everywhere, mainly clean sounds. Using exclusively Britt profiles, as I haven't been impressed with TAF profiles I've tested, open to suggestions of course!

    I like Fender type Cleans, and the low gain fender cleans don't have enough punch/power to cut through like a real amp, and the ones with a tad more gain have more gain and makes its more of a crunch sound. My Dad's 67 Deluxe reverb, has this powerful tone at about 5 on the dial, but still clean, and doesn't break up like the profiles tend to be. Am I expecting too much? any suggestions for profiles suited to live use?

    The drive sounds feel slightly uncompressed, and under saturated, but compression doesn't solve it, any tips here?

    I'm using a rack mounted unpowered head into a Magnum 44 Poweramp into a 2x10 Dr.Z Cab with Dr Z speakers made by eminence (yes, monitor cabs are off). Like I said, the single coil sounds work fairly well, Ive just come to a dead end when it comes to humbuckers. I also have a Yamaha DXR10, which I was unimpressed with, if you have any tips for making that sound sweeter I'm happy to try it out again.

    Basically I'm going through a massive learning curve using it, but I'm also steadily gigging between 3-5 nights a week, with multiple bands and artists, expecting multiple sounds. Any tips on any of this I have posted would be much appreciated!

    Thanks

    Quote from Chriss945

    I like Fender type Cleans, and the low gain fender cleans don't have enough punch/power to cut through like a real amp, and the ones with a tad more gain have more gain and makes its more of a crunch sound. My Dad's 67 Deluxe reverb, has this powerful tone at about 5 on the dial, but still clean, and doesn't break up like the profiles tend to be.

    When you say "low gain fender cleans", which gain range on the KPA are you talking about?

    In general more gain => less punch.

    You could try to fiddle with the pick attack and/or power sag controls and see if that gets you closer for a start.

    Quote from Chriss945

    I'm using a rack mounted unpowered head into a Magnum 44 Poweramp into a 2x10 Dr.Z Cab

    I recall that this power amp has been the cause of other cases where users were not happy with their tone.
    It seems like an odd combination to use a pro level preamp into a great cab with such a potential bottleneck. Definitely the weakest link in the signal chain.

    Since you seem to have access to a tube amp that produces the tone you are looking for - great! Make Profiles! :)

    Quote from Michael_dk

    When you say "low gain fender cleans", which gain range on the KPA are you talking about?

    In general more gain => less punch.

    You could try to fiddle with the pick attack and/or power sag controls and see if that gets you closer for a start.

    For example, I have both the 67 Deluxe Reverb original and 65 Deluxe reverb reissue profiles from Michael Britt. The cleanest of the profiles, don't sound like deluxe's to my ears, and the gainer profiles, the breakup sounds wrong. I have done a fair amount of recording with Deluxe's, my dad owns the 67 like I said, I also used to own a 65 reissue, before I owned my two rock. Something about the dynamics in the Kemper feel wrong to me, whether it be the sagging control, which to my ears, doesn't seem to do anything. Maybe I'm missing something, like a setting somewhere isn't correct. maybe clean sense? I have no idea how to set this.

    To be clear, I'm not expecting amp in the room sounds, I am expecting the sounds to sound like i would expect them to in a recording, through reference monitors. I've just noticed that with hum buckers it seems to be harder to get there than with single coils.

    Quote from DonPetersen

    I recall that this power amp has been the cause of other cases where users were not happy with their tone.It seems like an odd combination to use a pro level preamp into a great cab with such a potential bottleneck. Definitely the weakest link in the signal chain.

    Since you seem to have access to a tube amp that produces the tone you are looking for - great! Make Profiles! :)

    the 44 mag isnt great but he just needs to compensate for what the kemper cant do, its all about cabinet interaction and making that cab move

    Quote from mnewse614

    check my thread above yours ,
    Kemper/poweramp/cab Resonance

    I'm not going for amp in the room sounds, however this sounds interesting, ill definitely give it a try. What do you suggest about the Main Outputs though? I don't really want to send a boost of +3 @ 120Hz (for example) to the desk. I wish the 'Monitor Output EQ' wasn't just BMTP, and actually had adjustable Q's, this would solve so many problems.

    Quote from DonPetersen

    I recall that this power amp has been the cause of other cases where users were not happy with their tone.
    It seems like an odd combination to use a pro level preamp into a great cab with such a potential bottleneck. Definitely the weakest link in the signal chain.

    Since you seem to have access to a tube amp that produces the tone you are looking for - great! Make Profiles! :)

    Yeah, that does make sense. The problem is funds. Having already forked out for a Kemper, and selling off my old gear, I no longer have enough to buy high level stuff. All I need the power amp for is to power the speakers, do you have any recommendations for clean amps the don't colour the sound? Anything in a 1U rack size, as I have space under the Kemper in the rack box?

    Trust me I used a 44 with my ax8 it can deliver more than your getting, its not the amp fully, the kemper cant do whats needed for the in room sound and feeling. I would use the low cut in the speaker section to compensate for the boost, this would be better if we had separate global eqs for sure. But how do engineers solve this same problem with real amps? They use a low cut, same as house sound men, so I wouldnt worry about it. I am going for real world amp tones, and that huge bass is also real world amp tone, when I recorded with my Pitbull the engineer had to cut the low, you would have this same issue if you do real amp to torpedo its the same.

    Quote from Chriss945

    For example, I have both the 67 Deluxe Reverb original and 65 Deluxe reverb reissue profiles from Michael Britt. The cleanest of the profiles, don't sound like deluxe's to my ears, and the gainer profiles, the breakup sounds wrong. I have done a fair amount of recording with Deluxe's, my dad owns the 67 like I said, I also used to own a 65 reissue, before I owned my two rock. Something about the dynamics in the Kemper feel wrong to me, whether it be the sagging control, which to my ears, doesn't seem to do anything. Maybe I'm missing something, like a setting somewhere isn't correct. maybe clean sense? I have no idea how to set this.
    To be clear, I'm not expecting amp in the room sounds, I am expecting the sounds to sound like i would expect them to in a recording, through reference monitors. I've just noticed that with hum buckers it seems to be harder to get there than with single coils.

    The profiles you use have likely been dialed in for a single coil guitar (ie. the amp that was used to make the profiles were tweaked to work ideally with single coils). This can mean that the profile is just not very suited for humbuckers, and may not be so even after tweaking the profile. Furthermore, everybody's tastes are different, and when purchasing profiles you're kind of "at the mercy" of the person who has done the profile originally. Or at the mercy of their tastes :)

    If you have the possibility, try to make a profile of the '67 dialed in as YOU like it for humbuckers. Or just browse the free rigs to see if you can find something that suits your tastes better.

    Please send me a private message , Michael is right about guitar used while setting up the amps before profiling.

    I'll send you some of my personal profiles made specifically for my Humbucker guitars.

    R

    I've had the Kemper for about the same amount of time and here's what I've done to get some additional punch out of the profiles. First, I'm using both a humbucker equipped guitar (both bridge and neck) and a humbucker/single coil guitar (bridge/neck respectively). I'm using MBritt profiles almost exclusively, and in particular clean and low gain profiles (I run a pedalboard in front of the Kemper).

    1. Set input "clean sensitivity" to less than zero. I set mine to -6db (lock it so it applies to all profiles) so that the input LED never even thinks about turning red/clipping. Backing down the input clean sensitivity keeps the clean profiles from breaking up too early, and thus increases dynamics.
    2. Increase the "direct mix" parameter in the amp controls to between 1.0-2.0. This will mix in some of your "clean" guitar signal (or guitar and pedals if you're running a pedalboard into the Kemper input) which further increases punch/dynamics.
    3. Increase the "compression" parameter in the amp controls to between 1.5-2.5. This will add some "squish" or "sag" back to the amp to compensate for the above changes, while NOT affecting the dynamics of the amp.
    4. On a lot of his "clean" profiles, Michael adds a compressor stomp in stomp position 1, to give the profile some more volume and "oomph." I leave this on, but I turn the "squish" to 0, "attack" to 5, and the other first page parameter to 2.5 (I can't remember what it's called and can't get to my Kemper at the moment). I leave the other compressor parameters where they are.
    5. Place a Studio EQ in the last stomp slot (or just after your FX Loop return), and set the "low" parameter to 300hz and +1db. On some profiles (Vox-based profiles mainly), I'll set the "High" parameter to 3.35khz and +1db. Set the Low/High cuts at 80hz and 8.5khz. This adds a low-mid bump and cleans up the top end while adding some presence.

    You may have tried all of this, if so, I apologize for the repetition. These steps have added a lot of punch and presence to the profiles I'm using.

    Quote from boyce89976

    I've had the Kemper for about the same amount of time and here's what I've done to get some additional punch out of the profiles. First, I'm using both a humbucker equipped guitar (both bridge and neck) and a humbucker/single coil guitar (bridge/neck respectively). I'm using MBritt profiles almost exclusively, and in particular clean and low gain profiles (I run a pedalboard in front of the Kemper).

    1. Set input "clean sensitivity" to less than zero. I set mine to -6db (lock it so it applies to all profiles) so that the input LED never even thinks about turning red/clipping. Backing down the input clean sensitivity keeps the clean profiles from breaking up too early, and thus increases dynamics.
    2. Increase the "direct mix" parameter in the amp controls to between 1.0-2.0. This will mix in some of your "clean" guitar signal (or guitar and pedals if you're running a pedalboard into the Kemper input) which further increases punch/dynamics.
    3. Increase the "compression" parameter in the amp controls to between 1.5-2.5. This will add some "squish" or "sag" back to the amp to compensate for the above changes, while NOT affecting the dynamics of the amp.
    4. On a lot of his "clean" profiles, Michael adds a compressor stomp in stomp position 1, to give the profile some more volume and "oomph." I leave this on, but I turn the "squish" to 0, "attack" to 5, and the other first page parameter to 2.5 (I can't remember what it's called and can't get to my Kemper at the moment). I leave the other compressor parameters where they are.
    5. Place a Studio EQ in the last stomp slot (or just after your FX Loop return), and set the "low" parameter to 300hz and +1db. On some profiles (Vox-based profiles mainly), I'll set the "High" parameter to 3.35khz and +1db. Set the Low/High cuts at 80hz and 8.5khz. This adds a low-mid bump and cleans up the top end while adding some presence.

    You may have tried all of this, if so, I apologize for the repetition. These steps have added a lot of punch and presence to the profiles I'm using.

    ooooh! I can't wait to go home and try these out! Thanks!

    Quote from flyingheelhook

    ooooh! I can't wait to go home and try these out! Thanks!

    Quote from whippinpost91850

    I'll give these a try as well . Thanks for the info


    I hope you like them. I will say, these tweaks are more apparent live than they are here at home, and the EQ settings are fairly profile dependent. The biggest change I got was dialing the input clean sensitivity down a little and turning the direct mix up a little. The comp stomp on for clean-ish profiles is pretty dramatic as well.

    Please let me know if the settings work for you. If nothing else, I hope it gives you some ideas on how to get where you want to go.

    Edited once, last by boyce89976 (October 11, 2017 at 6:16 AM).