Neural Quad Cortex

Quote from nightlight

I don't follow the argument about the QC capturing each element of the amp and cabinet. Isn't that what the Kemper does, i.e. You can capture the amp as a DI, you can capture the cab together with the amp and you can switch around amps and cabs?

Or am I missing something? It seems highly unlikely that you can capture a cab without an amp being involved in the equation.

The KPA can separate amp + cab in Studio Profiles because of the CabDriver algorithm that basically makes a guess (and a really good one at that imo) where the amp and cab separate.

Calaban gave great context that explains the advantages of DI Profiles and why they were made after the KPA's release. The DI Profiles are just the amp without the cab, so you have more flexibility with the cab in the most authentic way possible.

The QC's full rig (amp +cab) Captures are the equivalent of Studio Profiles. But the cab can't be removed or changed with the full rig Captures. The full rig Captures take up only one block and allows for less CPU to be used for your core tone, so it has its advantages.

However, there is the option of using amp Captures (with no cab) which are basically the equivalent of DI Profiles. Neural DSP should be releasing some of both kinds of Captures with the factory content and hopefully people who start selling Captures will make both kinds of Captures to keep options open for users that want flexibility with the cab

There are several documented examples of serious musicians and producers who are proponents of one or the other of each of the three types of profiles. And that includes the original studio profiles which are often magical little things. Yes it’s a guess by the device, but many studio profiles sound absolutely killer through guitar cabinets with the profile’s cab block turned off (and the full profile sent to foh).

There’s accuracy, then there’s all those novel amp parameters that truly extend creative freedom, and the brilliant global tone stack (versus modeling) but finally there’s simply great tone. And none of this, not even tone, is important when it exists outside of a cool piece of music. But in the right context the Kemper has proven itself over and over again for a decade. At a certain point—like from the get go really—all the hairsplitting on the forums ceases to matter and it’s all about making art.

CK & Co made a concerted effort on one hand, to respect a host of physical and auditory traditions among professional guitarists and their road crews, and at the same time on the other hand, to gently push the boundaries in terms of what each of us could ask of our amplifiers, sonically, and present new tools and ways of thinking about achieving those sounds. I’d call that a legendary contribution.

That cool, new little shiny QC is the brainchild of a very different thinking group of talented, stubborn programmers and sound designers. It’s amazing that they’re out there fighting the good fight. I don’t know enough about the machine to estimate exactly what truly novel elements they’re introducing (accurate or not Capture is not novel, obviously) but I’m psyched that they’re out there and I’m looking forward to hearing what may result from their efforts.

I like the stripped down elegance and simplicity of their plug-ins and they’re clearly attempting to bring that approach to a hardware device.

Regarding “pro” features they seem committed to decisions that give many pause. But again, using an atypical connection or sort of forcing the market forward a bit, however exasperating it is to many, hasn’t hurt Apple.

Oh just a final point. In terms of “professional“ opinions, to a man, all of the endorsees touting at this moment the QC (and in the past the Kemper and other devices) all still choose their tube amp setups when given any choice. That’s why people make lists—Pat Matheny Mark Knopfler Lionel Loueke—when discussing guitarists who have “gone digital”.

I love it, you love it, but it is by no means the number one approach used to get it done, even in 2021.

In a live situation I am still a tube amp guy. We’re just not there yet with modeling/profiling, in my opinion.

It may be that the problem lies with monitoring...I know that I have not fully embraced the FRFR paradigm, and I’ve thrown good money after bad trying to find the right one. None of them do it for me...yet.

In the home studio, I cannot see any reason to use anything BUT my Kemper and possibly my

hopefully-soon-to- arrive Quad Cortex. The ease of setting up and getting a great tone is everything to me, and since I don’t have a good space to mic up my amp, nor the knowledge/experience/desire to do it well, there is no better solution than going digital.

The final piece of the puzzle for me, being a home recording enthusiast, was the Digitech FreqOut. No more blasting my monitor as and standing awkwardly above my desk trying to get that sustain and feedback. No, the FreqOut is not a “perfect” representation of true guitar feedback, but if massaged just right and mixed well it is indistinguishable, for the most part.

Kemper and Neural ABSOLUTELY should build a version of this into their products. I am dismayed that none of the big modelers have this. It really does bring it THAT much closer to the “real deal.”

If I had the money, I would always record in a great studio with real tube amps and a great engineer who was willing to mic everything up and do the grunt work. That is still the standard, but since that is not a reality, digital is the next best thing.

Quote from creative360

Regarding “pro” features they seem committed to decisions that give many pause. But again, using an atypical connection or sort of forcing the market forward a bit, however exasperating it is to many, hasn’t hurt Apple.

Even Apple lets users manage their own files.

Quote from andreio23

Speak for yourself.

I have to, you won't lol... Never saw anyone so against something they know so little about.

Quote from Calaban

The final piece of the puzzle for me, being a home recording enthusiast, was the Digitech FreqOut. No more blasting my monitor as and standing awkwardly above my desk trying to get that sustain and feedback. No, the FreqOut is not a “perfect” representation of true guitar feedback, but if massaged just right and mixed well it is indistinguishable, for the most part.

Thanks for the heads up on this - will give one a go.

I did pull the trigger on a sustainiac loaded guitar last year - it worked for about 2 minutes then fizzled out lol.

Quote from spikey

I have to, you won't lol... Never saw anyone so against something they know so little about.

You said no one can feel latency at 3 ms.
Quite the generalization ...
And against what? Latency?

Quote from MadH

What I always liked about the Profiler vs a modeler, is that I can actually compare the real amp vs my profiles and see how accurate they are. With a modeler, such as the Axe FX, you have no choice but to rely on somebody else's ears. Same thing happens when using somebody else's profiles. This is what Neural DSP is trying to avoid and what I believe Kemper should do as well.

I think I might be misunderstanding what you mean lol I apologize!

Respectfully, Captures and Profiles are the same concept. So both are dialed in before taking the Capture/Profile. The only way to avoid that problem with either, is to make them yourself with your own amps and tones.

Do you mean the auto-refinement part of the Capture process helps yield better results right off the bat so users won't have to feel compelled to use 3rd part Captures (like what can occasionally can happen when working with Profiles), and that avoids the problem of using Captures/Profiles that someone else dialed in ? Because that I can definitely agree with and can see where you're coming from Although, just as our subject matter reveals, you can get even better and more accurate results when Refining properly with the KPA. So that also is a way to avoid the problem of being driven to use 3rd party Profiles after not being satisfied with your own attempts to make Profiles.

But also as we've been mentioning, adding an auto-refine part to the Profiling process would ultimately be the best way to get the best results with the least amount of effort needed Because as we've seen, the QC can get some pretty close results with their algorithm-and we've also seen that the Kemper can get really accurate results with the caveat of needing much more refinement and effort. I imagine the Profiling process would get extremely accurate results much faster if auto-refinement was added to the Profiling algorithm.

Quote from Calaban

The final piece of the puzzle for me, being a home recording enthusiast, was the Digitech FreqOut. No more blasting my monitor as and standing awkwardly above my desk trying to get that sustain and feedback. No, the FreqOut is not a “perfect” representation of true guitar feedback, but if massaged just right and mixed well it is indistinguishable, for the most part.

Kemper and Neural ABSOLUTELY should build a version of this into their products. I am dismayed that none of the big modelers have this. It really does bring it THAT much closer to the “real deal.”

I hear so many great things about the Digitech FreqOut pedal

It sounds like a really killer pedal and I'd also love to see that in the KPA at some point. I've heard a lot about it over the past few years and with how popular it is, I'm really surprised that all the big modelers and the KPA don't have an Effect like it as well. It would definitely be a really useful Effect that would have the potential to improve the experience of playing through a digital rig.

There's even a thread requesting a Digitech Freqout Effect in the "Feature Requests" section of the forum

I just added my vote on there a while ago haha

Quote from ColdFrixion

Even Apple lets users manage their own files.

Doesn't answer this about twice a week? The editor will follow and allow users to manage and save files. You should have the option to work traditionally, or embrace the cloud thing.

Quote from karlic

Doesn't answer this about twice a week? The editor will follow and allow users to manage and save files. You should have the option to work traditionally, or embrace the cloud thing.

The editor will allow users to create and restore a complete backup. I've yet to see any info regarding the ability to import and export individual files locally, aside from IR's.

Quote from ColdFrixion

The editor will allow users to create and restore a complete backup. I've yet to see any info regarding the ability to import and export individual files locally, aside from IR's.

Just on the main website it says that "third party IRs are extremely easy to load". Just wait until things are clear if you plan on purchasing it. If not, you have nothing to worry about.

Quote from andreio23

You said no one can feel latency at 3 ms.
Quite the generalization ...
And against what? Latency?

Well, to be more specific....

In blind studies, 5 mSec was the lowest latency any person could hear using headphones. In open air..... No way.

Count me a disbeliever ?

Quote from OneEng1

Well, to be more specific....

In blind studies, 5 mSec was the lowest latency any person could hear using headphones. In open air..... No way.

Count me a disbeliever ?

I’m cool with that, you don’t have to believe me.

For example the difference between the Helix and something like the Amplifire is striking even on a clean signal path. There is a noticeable diaconnect in the Helix when put side by side. The same with the Kemper.

I think it was states that the latency of the Amplifire is around 1ms while the Helix is around 3ms.

You have to consider that there’s around 2 ms latency in the audio interface and there might be some latency in the monitors in some cases.

This quickly adds up. Especially without headphones if you account for the distance between the monitors and your ears and the fact that you hear the strings.

Another example is Helix in 4cm which totally destroys the feel of the amp.

Some people are just more sensitive.

I have no problem playing at a distance of 5 meters from the amp but I have a problem with any noticeable latency from the device.

If the qc has the same latency as the Helix then it is a total no-go for me. I hope it doesn't though.

Quote from karlic

Just on the main website it says that "third party Its are extremely easy to load". Just wait until things are clear if you plan on purchasing it. If not, you have nothing to worry about.

The website says, "Third-party IRs are extremely easy to load", and that's what I was saying. The end-user will be able to import IR's, but aside from IR's, all file transfers will have to go through the cloud, which is specifically why I have no intention of purchasing the Quad Cortex. I want the ability to manage my captures locally. If I can't do that, forget it.

Quote from ColdFrixion

The website says, "Third-party IRs are extremely easy to load", and that's what I was saying. The end-user will be able to import IR's, but aside from IR's, all file transfers will have to go through the cloud, which is specifically why I have no intention of purchasing the Quad Cortex. I want the ability to manage my captures locally. If I can't do that, forget it.

Fair enough, but I'm sure he said the editor was coming and you could do all the normal things. Personally, I will wait to see how things go anyway.

Quote from SeanChristopher

Do you mean the auto-refinement part of the Capture process helps yield better results right off the bat so users won't have to feel compelled to use 3rd part Captures (like what can occasionally can happen when working with Profiles), and that avoids the problem of using Captures/Profiles that someone else dialed in ? Because that I can definitely agree with and can see where you're coming from Although, just as our subject matter reveals, you can get even better and more accurate results when Refining properly with the KPA. So that also is a way to avoid the problem of being driven to use 3rd party Profiles after not being satisfied with your own attempts to make Profiles.

No, I believe that being able to share and use everybody else's profiles is probably the best feature of the Profiler because that way you can access many amp tones that you wouldn't have otherwise. I don't believe that having auto-refine would result in people not being interested on third party profiles.

What I meant is that if the refine process can be automated and "works well", then you can trust that all third party profiles are as close to the real amp as possible. At the moment you can't assume that. Taking as example recent videos:

Rabea's video.

You can see that he did not put much effort into refining to get it as close as possible. He even deleted a previous video where he did not even use refine when it was obvious that it was needed. I would assume that's the same method he used to create his commercial profiles. If that's the case then probably those profiles are not as close to the real amp as they could have been. I don't mean that they sound bad. Just talking about accuracy.

MBritt's video.

Same thing. Not enough refining. Good tone but not as close as it could have been. This surprised me because he is clearly taking a lot of time to set up everything properly (amp, mic positions, mix, ...) but then after all that he does not put few minutes into refining to make it perfect.

Lastly, Guido's video.

He really took the time needed to make it as perfect as possible. I think most people would be satisfied if auto-refine could give results as good as these.

Quote from karlic

Fair enough, but I'm sure he said the editor was coming and you could do all the normal things. Personally, I will wait to see how things go anyway.

On The Gear Page, I (and others) asked Doug Castro repeatedly if users would be able to save and restore individual capture files locally(eg. to a computer or USB drive), and he eventually said that all files (except IR's) would have to go through the cloud, but that it would be possible to create and restore full backups using the desktop app. That's not good enough for me. I want to be able to manage my individual captures without having to be connected to the internet.

Quote from ColdFrixion

On The Gear Page, I (and others) asked Doug Castro repeatedly if users would be able to save and restore individual capture files locally(eg. to a computer or USB drive), and he eventually said that all files (except IR's) would have to go through the cloud, but that it would be possible to create and restore full backups using the desktop app. That's not good enough for me. I want to be able to manage my individual captures without having to be connected to the internet.

If this really is meant as a limitation, I can see why it would worry some users. Surely you can manage your own captures within the desktop app though?

The only time I ever exported or imported individual profiles was to share with friends or bands I worked with.

Quote from karlic

Surely you can manage your own captures within the desktop app though?

Everything I've read from Doug Castro indicates that you'll only be able to create and restore full backups with the desktop app. Management of individual captures and presets will have to be done through the cloud, which means you have to be connected to the internet. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against storing stuff in the cloud, but I at least want the option of keeping a local copy.

Quote from karlic

The only time I ever exported or imported individual profiles was to share with friends or bands I worked with.

I keep local copies of all my profiles.