Kemper is so much better than Fractal

    Quote from klassiker

    Well, the sales numbers on eBay can be explained. Users profile their amps, keep the Kemper and sell their amps on eBay afterwards ;)

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    Good to know. :) It's hard to tell anymore, though. There was a guy who made a 4 part video series 8 or so months ago who questioned whether the Kemper is ethical. At one point he suggested that people were buying amps specifically for profiling purposes and then turning around and selling them, in turn hurting amp manufacturers.

    He'' a bit of an amp collector, and I think he has a slight bias against the Kemper for some reason. Which really cracks me up, because he has become a somewhat official spokesperson for Mooer, and unofficial spokesperson for Joyo. Both companies, btw, that are known for cloning existing hardware of other companies in their pedals and amps, which he has no ethical quandary about.

    Quote from cybermgk

    He's a bit of an amp collector, and I think he has a slight bias against the Kemper for some reason. Which really cracks me up, because he has become a somewhat official spokesperson for Mooer, and unofficial spokesperson for Joyo. Both companies, btw, that are known for cloning existing hardware of other companies in their pedals and amps, which he has no ethical quandary about.

    He criticized commercial profile vendors for using names indicative of the amps the profiles are based on without giving amp manufacturers a cut of the profits, yet he's actively promoted the JOYO Klonz modeling tube amp which, at least in one demo, used the actual brand names of the amps their models are based on. In my opinion, unless JOYO plans to share a portion of the profits, he's a blatant hypocrite.

    he is. Lol, thus my light hearted term 'situational ethics syndrome'. For him, its ok when its a company he is 'involved' with, but not if he isn't. I wouldn't be surprised uf he asked for a free kpa to demo and review and got turned down.

    Quote from cybermgk

    Hmm, I'm exactly the guy you describe above, early fifties, fulltime job, fult-time single father/parent of 2 boys, for a few years now, shared custody before that (though this year, oldest stays on campus all week, is only home on weekends, so load is lessened a little since this fall).
    Oddly enough, though I moved to a Kemper, sold off 6 Tube amps, keeping only 2 collectible amps, because they are collectible.

    And, OMG, I just helped a late 40s guy do the same move as I. And, lordy, lordy, bought my Atomic CLR cab used, from a 60+ Axe FX player.

    I can go on.

    But, your point is a good one, that players buy what the players they grow up idolizing, plays/played.

    But, it doesn't support your theorem. Because what will dictate the future, isn't what the old farts like me use (and as I showed, that isn't cut and dry, now is it). No, it is what the younger gen of players get into. And guess what the younger pros are playing a LOT on. Yep digital gear, modelers and Profilers. So, THAT is what young folks will see, and according to your dictum, buy themselves.

    Honestly my post was not meant to sound ironic or degrading..I have the highest respect for all family guys out there who are able in these difficult times to care for their families and still find some time for music.And I assure you that right now I would be very happy with a "normal" 9 to 5 job and not struggling each month to make it work as a musician..

    Nevertheless you will not deny that most guys out there still like their tube amp more than anything else and this not only because it sounds better but also for some other reasons I mentioned above.

    As for the "future"..Yes.Kids love digital gadgets but this sadly also implicates that they dont take all the time good music needs.Gadgets will also remain gadgets in the "future" which implicates that today this orn that thingy is "cool" and 12 hours later it is not anymore.I am not sure yet how this will reflect on the music in the future.

    Quote from cybermgk

    see red above

    Ahhh. And the debate is on ;)

    I don't dispute most of what you just stated.

    The error I see is that MOST people look at a combo amp as a one-stop-solution .... and for many it is.... maybe even most. I don't think that most people factor in tubes. Most don't replace them either (although I certainly did even with my VHT). In all fairness, I typically went 2 years between tube replacements ... sometimes more.

    I do agree that the trend is changing. I hear about and see more and more Kempers and Axe II Fx's out in the wild every month.

    Now back to the OP.

    It is generally true that people who have owned both Axe and Kemper agree that Kemper has better tube tone. It is also generally agreed (for now) that the Axe has better efx. It is my belief that the Kemper is simply easier to get good stuff out of, but it is simply speculation.

    Quote from OneEng1


    It is generally true that people who have owned both Axe and Kemper agree that Kemper has better tube tone. It is also generally agreed (for now) that the Axe has better efx. It is my belief that the Kemper is simply easier to get good stuff out of, but it is simply speculation.

    Kempers FX are improving (witness V5 Betas new Delays).

    As good as the current Axe FX is, imho it needs the steller fx it has to make the amp models sound better, One could say they need the fx. Whereas, I have many profiles that I can take all the fx off, and they sound just fine. In those cases the fx add spice,.

    Quote from OneEng1

    Another problem with the digital approach is that (even with the Kemper) the quality of the sound is heavily dependent on the quality of the speaker you use with it.

    ...which is true for *any* audio equipment.

    About "inspiring tube amps" and the last rock n roll domain

    When there was nothing but tube amps it never inspired me to...

    * see my amp smoking after just turning in on to standby
    * carrying those heavy beasts around all the time
    * always being too loud for everybody to make it sound good (we needed power amp section distortion to make old amps sound really good)

    It makes me laugh, when I see a video of somebody sitting infront of his modern real tube amp, playing higain and the strings and fretbuzz are actually louder than the amp.

    What is *really* inspiring me is the sound of those tube amps at their respective sweet spot and their response to the playing. Which originally is freaking loud for those first generation tube amps. And this is what my Kemper delivers to perfection - in a treated room with excellent speakers. From moderate to brutal volumes now, just the way I want it. Brave new world. I am glad, I survived up to now! :D

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Quote from Dean_R

    I remember that one 8o , I watched two minutes of his firs video and couldn't understand how others can bear to sit through one whole video, but a series of videos :/

    For me it also was that Kemper-Ethic video when I stumbled across that guy. First I found him annoying. But annoying to such an extreme degree that I got paralyzed, you know, sitting there with open mouth and not believing, what is going on. My interest in the Kemper let me watch his follow-ups. And slowly I changed my mind about him. To make a long story short: I became a subscriber! :D Its my affection to crazy extremeists, I guess.

    Back to the topic: Guess what, he is now promoting a chinese amp manufacturer who uses the Italian Klonz technology to clone the circuits of existing amps! :D

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Well, I'm a lucky owner of both a KPA and an AX8 and I think both are ranking high in terms of quality. Where the difference is standing is probably in the concept
    or approach used. The AX8 to me is more suitable for gigging with 8 scenes switchable within the same preset you scale down one preset and you have another 8 scenes etc.,
    while with the KPA one has to by a separate pedalboard which make it not competitive at that point and tweak quite a bit to get things organised. That said, there's already too
    much in terms of amps on both sides ... how many amps we all do use at the end ? 5 ? maybe 8 ? so the race is now all on the effects side and in this respect Fractal seems to be
    a bit ahead .... delays and reverbs in the style of Eventide are already in their bag probably due to the double processors of the Axe II ultra XL while for KPA it might take a while.
    For me definitely KPA is excellent for my Studio while the AX8 is my solution for outside. At the end my EVH brown sounds is pretty similar on both items because when you have that sound
    in your ears you would still tweak what you have to go in that direction, it doesn't matter if it is with a Mesa Amp , A Fender, A Peavey of an EVH etc.,

    Quote from GianKalab

    That said, there's already too much in terms of amps on both sides ... how many amps we all do use at the end ? 5 ? maybe 8 ?

    Not everyone will use the same 5 or 8 amps, though. Some people may only use 1 or 2, however because the KPA and Axe aren't designed for any specific person, the developers seek to incorporate as many amps as possible to appeal to the widest number of styles and preferences.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    Not everyone will use the same 5 or 8 amps, though. Some people may only use 1 or 2, however because the KPA and Axe aren't designed for any specific person, the developers seek to incorporate as many amps as possible to appeal to the widest number of styles and preferences.


    Exactly, and it's the same with the effects. We keep hearing people moaning that all they want is "basic amps and effects for much less money," but the cost of the hardware to support the fantasy "downsized" model would be the same, and there would be an endless debate on which amps and effects would be the "essentials," anyway. Might as well throw 'em all in there and let everybody choose the stuff they actually want.

    Quote from Frodebro

    We keep hearing people moaning that all they want is "basic amps and effects for much less money," but the cost of the hardware to support the fantasy "downsized" model would be the same, and there would be an endless debate on which amps and effects would be the "essentials," anyway. Might as well throw 'em all in there and let everybody choose the stuff they actually want.

    I say use the amps and effects that work for you and ignore everything else. If all you need is a Marshall and some reverb, use that. No one's twisting anyone's arm to use everything. If you don't need it, don't use it.

    Quote from SpinnerDeluxe

    ...which is true for *any* audio equipment.
    About "inspiring tube amps" and the last rock n roll domain

    When there was nothing but tube amps it never inspired me to...

    * see my amp smoking after just turning in on to standby
    * carrying those heavy beasts around all the time
    * always being too loud for everybody to make it sound good (we needed power amp section distortion to make old amps sound really good)

    It makes me laugh, when I see a video of somebody sitting infront of his modern real tube amp, playing higain and the strings and fretbuzz are actually louder than the amp.

    What is *really* inspiring me is the sound of those tube amps at their respective sweet spot and their response to the playing. Which originally is freaking loud for those first generation tube amps. And this is what my Kemper delivers to perfection - in a treated room with excellent speakers. From moderate to brutal volumes now, just the way I want it. Brave new world. I am glad, I survived up to now! :D

    LOL!

    Oh, don't mistake me for someone fawning over the "good ole days" of tube amps ;)

    I agree completely with everything you said. In fact, I didn't replace my VHT because of tone. I replaced it because the rig weighs a ton. I am now 51 years old and while I am in reasonably good shape, even a 25 year old would balk at carrying that rig around every week.

    Finding that the KPA actually had better sound than my old rig was actually just a nice surprise.

    It should be noted that while many rhythm guitarist will be more than fine with just a KPA straight into the PA (which is what I do), lead players are still going to need a good monitor to move the air in order to get the string action needed for great tone on many leads).

    I agree to some extent. Let me clarify.

    It is more convenient on stage to have the single ethernet cable running out to my Kemper remote than it is to provide my guitar cable in, cable out, power cable, and XLR outputs all under my feet where I perform. In this respect, a rack with an external remote is a better solution.

    In my specific case, my band uses an X32 Rack which sits behind us on stage. I simply sit my KPA rack on top of it, and have a dedicated custom snake holding power and L/R XLR's from the back of the mixer to plug in. One Ethernet cable strewn across the stage, and one 1/4 " cable to my guitar, and I am done. My setup life has never been easier.

    Another note is that I also find it better for the guitar cable to go behind me back to the rack instead of dangling in front of me down to the pedal. It is just an ergonomics problem I would rather avoid.

    FYI, for those with a remote, I found that if you purchase some 1/4" plastic conduit on eBay (it is dirt cheep for 100 feet of this stuff), and put this over your KPA remote cable, it makes it way easier to keep your cable run straight and untangled.

    Probably I missed something along the line or maybe you've not got my point. I was talking only about the competition between Kemper and Fractal .. by having already a huge number of amps available
    from both sides (I've got some 700 presets on my Kemper and 560 on the AX8) the battle is now transferred on the FX side and this where in my opinion Fractal is somehow ahead in these days compare with Kemper. By having a double processor it should be easier for them to achieve results for which Kemper will have to struggle a little longer. I'm talking for example for reverbs in the style of Eventide blackhole etc.,and delays hitting the market today interms of hardware (Strymon, Neunaber etc.,). Talking about amps I can't see them adding new amps ... on the other side what's left now ? If you've got a nice amp for what you normally do you stick with it or maybe you try an alternative just to find out whether it is actually better than what you have already or not. When it comes to fx it is slightly different, a complete pedal board does include compressors, pitch shifters, EQ, overdrive, distortion, phasers, flangers, chorus, delays, reverbs etc., i.e. a much larger variety of items to replicate when taken by their original brand. All this referred to the competition between Kemper and Fractal and not about what one ould or would do.

    Quote from GianKalab


    The AX8 to me is more suitable for gigging...

    The thing about the AX8 to me is the whole works is on the floor. I hate to have even my good pedals on the floor. I mean, some places live you have strange kicking feet, beer / drink spill, floor dust, etc, etc.. I hate anything to be on the floor except a nice solid (and easily / financially replaceable) floor pedal.