Greetings all, GREAT product and forum!

    Hope everyone is having a great day and weekend to come :)

    Long time reader here, but this is my first post. Got a massive education here, so much great
    information, didn't have much to say...still much to learn.

    Firstly I should thank the Kemper team for creating such an epic machine. This truly is one of the best things you
    can have with a stringed instrument. Kudos and major props for standing behind it, and bringing something totally
    new into the world!

    Next, is grats to everyone here for a kick ass forum, one of the best on the net imho. Lots of really nice people,
    who are very knowledgeable, and happy to help other users. Also a fun place to be. An island of stability with
    the usual internet elements out there ;)

    It is really good to see this forum grow; almost 9k members now, and the free rig exchange with over 5k rigs and counting.
    This ratio speaks for itself, and shows the efforts and wonderful generosity of this community. When looking at the member
    page I noticed a few prolific members with more posts than rigs in the exchange (you know who you are ;) and the great thing
    is seeing these posts as very often an answer to questions other users have about gear, settings etc. This is a knowledge
    base that is only gaining momentum. Should also say, from what I have read of the profile vendors here, they are very skilled,
    and class acts.

    Having got a second KPA 8o (non powered E.T.'s toaster/lunchbox model) I figured it is high time I got my act together and took the
    time to say hello, and thanks for all the info and rigs.

    I will also be testing out a pair of relatively new speakers (link below, not sure how insert link works yet) over the next little while,
    but not sure when I will have the time (not even hooked up yet). Let me know what you think based on specs, or if anyone has
    used them, experience, tips etc. Don't worry about posting any opinion/data about these speakers, good or bad. I won't be
    offended, since I am not very defensive about any gear. More focused on what it can do, and how well it does it. Curious to know
    what people here think :)

    http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/p…/product/ps12p/

    Hey Gandalf, welcome to the postboard :)

    About the cab, I've no direct experience with it. But I'm aware that specs are a bad beast, to be managed with care :)

    You might want to know what Jay Mitchell (the designer of the AA CLR) wrote about power, SPL and specs responding to a question about the Yamaha DSR. I believe this is of general value, and have excerpted the meaningful parts only:

    Quote

    Q: Noted that in terms of output, the DSR kills a single CLR at 1300 W vs 500 W.

    A: This statement is completely in error.
    Comparisons based on manufacturers' specifications or amplifier power and/or maximum SPL are essentially meaningless. Only direct comparison conducted by a competent individual will tell you anything about maximum usable acoustic output.

    First, the power rating in the CLR is extremely conservative. It is based on the ability of the three onboard amplifiers (and the power supply) to deliver continuous power to the transducers in the speaker. I have inspected a number of "1000 watt" powered monitors, and I have yet to encounter one with sufficient power to merit an honest rating of half that figure. If we had used the same rationale to provide a power rating for the CLR, the number would have been 1500 watts, not 500.
    Second, the electrical power rating of the amplifiers is only indirectly related to the acoustic power produced by the transducers. In reality, the sensitivity and linearity of the transducers always determines the maximum acoustic output a speaker can produce. Due to basic laws of physics, small two-way loudspeakers are incapable of producing continuous, linear SPL of more than 120 dB, and many fall far short of that. Unfortunately, manufacturers' claims are not a guarantee that a speaker will actually deliver.


    HTH :)

    Thanks everyone for the warm welcome :)

    Got to try the Yorkvilles yesterday, only for ~15 minutes tho...
    My initial thoughts?
    So far so good, but they are not set up properly (on the floor etc...), and too little time to dial in things.
    No chance to a/b actual amps yet

    Quote from Pick909


    The Yorkville seems to be powerfull but heavy to carry as well at 60 lbs!

    Hehe... features/specs say light weight abs plastic cabinet,but there must be some other heavy things in there ;)

    I noticed you are in Montreal pick909, there should be an L&M there which would have these ready to demo, and
    prolly a KPA there also if you want to see them first hand. Carrying them is easier than I thought; strangely, 2 are easier
    than one, must be a balance thing...they are not really bulky, or awkward, but that is different for every person.
    2 people can move them fairly easily with the way the handles are. I don't always lift 60 pound cabs, but when i do...I lift two ;)

    Speaking of specs, thanks for the heads up and paste Viabcroce (Bendetto Croce?).
    Watts are a particulaily nebulous one, with some fairly eggregious abuses in the past,
    some bordering on ridiculous--if you want a good laugh I can link some later.
    What Jay wrote in that quote you posted is a pretty good statement on the matter.
    Poor guy, if he designed them, asking him to explain wattage misconceptions is a little
    like asking a Formula One driver to drive a forklift instead (must be boring for him).
    I have read (probably here) some of his other things on acousitcs, reflections, and
    speaker placement.Interesting stuff and some practical info as well.

    I do wish there was a way to do a direct comparison he mentioned, especially with the CLR's,
    because I am curious about them. Be nice if any store carried a demo model.
    Do you know if there is an "FRFR" graph for the CLR's that can illustrate how flat they are etc?
    I noticed the Frequency Response for them is 70Hz-18kHz, +/- 2.5 dB, and am not sure how well
    this would illustrate flatness.

    The Yorkville's Frequency Response is (Hz +/- 3dB) 45Hz to 26kHz. Could the wider band mean a larger +\- dB?
    They can get pretty loud, (133dB Peak, 128dB Continuous) I turned them up a bit, but any more would have probably got me "discovered" and
    signed with the local police immediately ;)
    Interestingly, they have a defeatable mixer on board (pic on 15" model page, mouse over to zoom. but it is the same input/mixer as the 12's...link below), with the ability to control
    bass, if you want to add a sub (thinking of testing that later on also). I am going to email them and ask for an "FRFR" graph, can post here too.

    http://yorkville.com/loudspeakers/p…/product/ps15p/

    I have also heard a Matrix QSC 10" (was not too fussy on it),
    EV (Electro Voice iirc) 12's 15's mono, stereo, with/without subs. They were pretty good.
    a yammie DXR 8" which was also quite good.

    I am trying to find a pair of DSR 112's to check out, but the closest place I know atm is 500km away, and they only have one...

    Right now, I am travelling, so don't have access to the Yorkville's untill the weekend, or Thanksgiving on Monday (holiday).
    Should be able to post more info then.

    Quote from Gandalf_The_Blond

    Hehe... features/specs say light weight abs plastic cabinet,but there must be some other heavy things in there ;)

    I noticed you are in Montreal pick909, there should be an L&M there which would have these ready to demo, and
    prolly a KPA there also if you want to see them first hand. Carrying them is easier than I thought; strangely, 2 are easier
    than one, must be a balance thing...they are not really bulky, or awkward, but that is different for every person.
    2 people can move them fairly easily with the way the handles are. I don't always lift 60 pound cabs, but when i do...I lift two ;)

    Hey! Gandalf, I think I would go to the gym prior to L&M ^^ , 2X60 lbs :wacko:, really not my cup of tea! ;) I'm looking for something realy light like the Matrix NL12 but in FRFR version which doesn't seem to exist yet...

    Happy Halloween everyone :)

    Sorry for the delay in responding, still traveling, and crazy busy.

    Was looking for this thread in the "Introduce yourself" section, somehow this thread is not there by date, I think it was posted during the new board change, and the 12 hour loss of posts mentioned somewhere could be a factor. I managed to find it in my profile section and am replying this way, hope this is a good workaround. Gratz on the new board btw, looks great :)

    It was wonderful to see new members from all over the world. Egypt, Belgium, Italy, Australia, USA, UK, Canada, Indonesia, Switzerland, Spain, Poland, and Mexico, just to name a few that popped up in the titles alone. I am sure there are many more. I wonder if it is possible to start a "world count" thread / poll that compares how many countries are out there and how many of them have KPA users. Perhaps not a very useful metric, but it would have some curious results.

    Have a few min now so will post some more impressions on the Parasource PS12P's.

    I did have time to put them on stands about a week or 2 ago. Need to re-evaluate the idea of them being "light" ;) but they are somehow balanced. I don't plan to move these on a regular basis; they are built like a tank tho, so moving them all the time is not likely to cause any harm to them. The warranty is 2 years no questions asked, and another 10 on some other parts, the built in amp (passive cooling = better/more rugged design imho) iirc, and possibly the speakers. This shows some serious confidence in their durability.

    You would not need to goto the gym with these Pick909, think of these as "gym in a box" :) The NL 12's do look pretty nice, noticed they are shipping from California now, so getting them in North America should be cheaper and easier. 16 pounds for those is pretty light. My idea of initial demo in a store is bring some tunes you like/know, or hook up a KPA to them direct, since going thru anything, or listening to certain kinds of demo music will have an intended effect/genre with all kinds of variables.

    Got to noodle around with them for another 30 min after hooking up the KPA. They sound really nice in stereo. Was playing around with the delay and some Kemper rigs. Sounded huge with the AC ones. Cranked up the volume a little bit more and they got loud fast--didn't have to worry about the police since I knew I would be leaving town in a few min ;)

    Bass is strong, you can feel it in your chest, even at moderate/living room levels. They are not boomy or obnoxious though (you can make them do that too). Mids and highs were really nice, and the whole range was very articulate; an honest, full sounding speaker all around. At some future point I plan to take them to an appropriate place where I can dime things. I am guessing they will move some air a la 4x12 + 100w head, which would be cool to a/b with some of the KPA rigs out there, or just make a profile and check it out that way.

    As far as looks go, they really don't photograph very well, on the website, or youtube clips etc. They look a lot better in person, especially the grill, if that kind of look is to your taste. I thought I would not like it, until I saw them; it is not really about looks for me, but it is a bonus.

    If things go well, I should have access to them again around Tuesday, and some time to check them out a bit more. Have a friend stopping by a couple days later, and we are going to give them a more critical listening--aka a few bottles of nice wine and some nice music ;)

    Hopefully I will have time to post more info by next weekend, traveling again next Friday, or even Thursday, not sure atm. Please let me know here if you have any questions and I will try to answer them. Also for the record, I do not have any affiliation with this manufacturer or benefit etc. so am free to post my own impressions and nothing else.

    Hope everyone has a great weekend :)


    Hey Gandalf!

    Sorry, I had lost tracks of this thread myself :/

    Yeah, my nick stands for Benedetto Croce, the famous Italian philosopher. Good catch! :thumbup:

    For more info about the CLR I'd suggest you to visit Atomic Amps' site and download the product manual.
    Generally speaking, complete flatness does not exist. But it can be defined in relation to human hearing.
    Now, the CLR are very good. I strongly doubt that a cab in that price range can be more linear than they are. And, as we saw, manufacturers often use creative ways for measuring their products...

    Due to basic laws of physics, small two-way loudspeakers are incapable of producing continuous, linear SPL of more than 120 dB, and many fall far short of that. Unfortunately, manufacturers' claims are not a guarantee that a speaker will actually deliver.


    To answer your question, yes, the data you're reported would indicate a better amplitude response, under three conditions:

    • that they are true;
    • that they have been measured with he same "weight" and approach;
    • that the greatest peaks and valleys (+3 dB, -3 dB) are not located in the most meaningful range, that is the freqs we are more sensitive at.


    To say it in a sentence, IMO there's no 2-way 12" cab that can be more linear, powerful and transparent that a CLR in that price range and above. Mr. Mitchell has explained in details the limits and the challenges related to the development of such a device, and what can be done and what can't.

    OTOH, I don't think that testing a loudspeaker via a guitar signal can reveal anything about their linearity. And a test with general music programs is meaningful only if the listener is well trained, expert and knows what to listen to. The listening environment and the cab's placement also play a meaningful role in the overall response.

    Ultimately tho, what matters most is how happy you are when you play through your cab(s)! We all know that there are as many "best sounds" as musicians here around :D

    Enjoy your new machine :thumbup: