In depth information about Liquid Profiles

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    The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Stage

    Hi all,

    I have been struggling a bit getting a picture of how Liquid Profiles actually work. I could not find any detailed information on this forum or on Google. Part of the culprit may be that I don't have much knowledge of guitar amps.
    The things that I am wondering about are:
    In what part of an amp does the 'amp model', which I think is also referred to as tone stack, live? Is this the pre-amp?
    Say you have an amp that can do a lot of distortion, and you crank the gain up to 10 and create a 'classic' profile. If you then load this profile and turn down the gain, can you get a clean tone that would be the same as if you had created a profile with the amp's gain set to output a clean tone? In other words, does the profiler try to calculate how a clean tone would sound if the profile has a lot of distortion?
    Say you create a Liquid Profile of the same amp, and there is an amp model for it, will the clean and gain tones be more like the real amp? Or is it only that the min/max settings/the knob ranges, for the gain and tone are more realistic?
    Is the amp model in the Liquid Profile a completely digitally modeled pre-amp? If yes, was the 'generic amp' that lived inside the Kemper before Liquid Profiles existed, also digitally modeled, but then a one-for-all?

    If you have any technical knowledge or have a link to some more technical information, I'd really like to know.

    Thanks!

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    Hum.. good questions here!

    Following

    As far as I know Lqd profiles emulate in a good way the behave of a real amp in terms of EQ And GAIN.

    BUT I can't tell You for sure cause I don't have any Amp (and profiled them) in the current list of LQD "masks".

    A Great additional function is You can now Retrofit any profile ( if You know for sure the amp's settings during the profiling session)

    And you can also find out the original Gain and Definition parameter settings the profiler got originally.

    Supposing You've already read everything reported in manuals .. I'm following this thread.

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    Almost ten years ago, I posted a profile of a vintage 1965 Deluxe Reverb with vintage RCA tubes, and a Kendrick Black Frame speaker, named "Fender Dyn DR paults" on the The Rig Exchange. Fortunately, I included the original amp settings in the Profile notes: Normal Channel, Volume 8.75, Treble 9, Bass 9. It can be retrofitted to be a Liquid Profile. Sorry to say, the amp is long gone.

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    Pier75 Yep you seem to have a good understanding of how it works.

    paults will have a look at that amp, I wonder how many others did the same?

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    The "amp model" is basically a digital model of the tone stack of the real amp. Although there aren't models for that many amps to date, you would be surprised how many amps use the same tones stacks or so similar as to be almost interchangeable.

    The tone stack is part of the pre amp but it can come before or after the gain stages (which create the distortion). Vintage style amps Fender, Mesa Mark Series etc tend to have the tone stack before the gain stages while more modern amp designs often have it afterwards. The position of the tone stack makes a massive difference. Too much bass going into the gain stages can create a loose/flubby sound. This is why Mesa Mark Series amps are often set with the bass on or close to 0 for high gain sounds. It is also the reason Mark series usually have a graphic EQ as well which is placed after the gain stages to add back bass without the sound farting out.

    The profiling process sends a signal with rising amplitude (it starts quiet and gets really loud. This allows the profiler to capture how the amp responds with different levels of gain and allows the profiler to interpolate the effect of turning down the gain knob (the information is already contained in the profile). However, if you turn the gain up beyond the level at which the amp was profiled the Kemper has to estimate how the amp would respond. Making a liquid profile with the amp gain on max allows the Kemper to gather the information on the amp's distortion behaviour over its entire range. Therefore, it doesn't need to guess what the amp would sound like if you turn the gain up as it already knows the full range of the amp's capabilities.

    The really clever bit about liquid profiling though is the way Kemper have been able to integrate a model of a tone stack into a profile and have this behave like the real amp would based on where the tone stack is placed. I have no idea how they actually manage it but it certainly works. The Generic Amp is also a modelled tone stack based on a set of default values that Kemper deemed useful and flexible across a wide range of amp types.