There and back again - my Kemper story

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    The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Head/Rack

    Hey everyone,

    I personally like reading posts like this so I thought I'd share mine.
    The TLDR is: I owned Kemper in the past and am giving it a shot again.

    Reading comments about all the different digital guitar rigs online I get the feeling that we, as in we guitarists, came to two overarching conclusions:
    1. Different tools for different jobs. There are many devices out there and some are suited better for some applications then others.
    2. Sound is subjective. But since this is the internet obviously I am right and everyone else is wrong. ;)

    This is my third Kemper Profiler. I bought one relatively close to release. It was the first bit of professional gear I ever owned and I was very intrigued. I played it a lot, live, rehearsals, at home. But I was never really happy with the sound. It didn't sound "bad" but compared to what I heard online I just never "got there". Eventually I had to sell it but it always stayed in my mind.

    A few years went by, where I only played subpar equipment at home. But I always wanted to have a Kemper again. And eventually I was able to do so. And I was making the same experiences again. At home I got to a point that I found satisfying but as soon as I went to a rehearsal and heard it in proper volume it sounded just bad in comparison. Tried literally 100s of profiles. Tried all kinds of amplification. Different cabs. As a last resort I even ordered an active Kemper Kabinet. And to my ears it just couldn't compare even with the most basic tube amp. I own an ENGL Gigmaster 15. And plugging directly into this is just great. It is dry it is unforgiving but it sounds great. And arguably it is very far from "boutique". I also had the feeling that the Kemper was not able to accurately profile this amp at the time, even just the preamp. I went back and forth back and forth. Tried an FM3, tried the Helix even tried the Quad Cortex. Every unit has something for it. But I made the exact same experience every time again and again. Sold everything, including the Kemper.

    So I though digital just wasn't for me. I put together an analog rig (with a Voodoo Lab GCX Switching system) under the assumption that I would "make no compromise" but I had humming I wasn't flexible it was awkward to carry. So many cables. So many points where something could go wrong. It was during Corona so there were no gigs anyway but I loathed the thought of taking this thing on stage. Don't get me wrong I never had a sound this amazing. And I was getting by ok with the amount of sounds I could get out of it. But my digital experience kinda ruined me in this regard. One set delay, just doesn't cut it anymore ^^

    Back to square one I guess.

    Time to give the Kemper another shot. Since I cannot figure out how to get rid of that damn hum which seems to change everytime I leave the room, I have settled on the solution to slave in the ENGL amp.

    This might be controversial. But I swear to god it makes a noticable difference whether I plug into the ENGL directly or into the Kemper and out of the direct out.
    I have made a profile of the ENGL preamp. And comparing the two they sound identical. And I think I know why. The Kemper sounds how it THINKS the ENGL sounds. Because slaved into it that is how the ENGL actually sounds.

    But, again, plugging into the amp directly sounds different.

    It sounds... quite alright. I'm not a "fan" of any device anymore. I always liked the Kemper because in my opinion it revolutionized the marked a lot more than any competitor did. It is good enough to satisfy so many pros so no arguing there. But, again, plugging into the amp directly sounds different. And I think you would even agree if you were in the same room with me and would hear the same thing.

    I think I'm at a good spot now. The setup is thankfully super simpel. 4CM. I can add a Wet/Dry situation if I want to.

    Does it sound as good as my analog rig did? No, I can honestly say it does not. But the added flexibility I think is making up for it. Also, after having spend so much time with my two previous Kempers, having one again feels like coming home. I know that some of this sounds very critical and I am as I should be, it's an expensive product.
    But

    - The Footswitch is really good
    - The overlay of the Rack and Amp make it really easy to dial in
    - there are more than enough effects for my needs and they sound good
    - it is super reliable

    So, I'm glad to be back. I'm curious how this will work out.

    Things I wish the Kemper did for maybe the next Kemper (if there ever is one):

    - The ability to switch tube amp channels (like the Helix does)
    - The footswitch, while great, is nowhere near as flexible as the FC-series from Fractal
    - Routing flexibility like the Fractal line
    - the ability to profile Amps and distortion pedals seperately (Like the QC)

    That in a not too deep Rackmounted unit would be my "Eierlegendewollmilchsau" (a German word for a perfect farm animal that lays eggs, gives milk and wool and has meat like Pork)^^

    Edited once, last by Steeldom (September 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM).

    • New

    Hi,

    Yes and no.

    I've compared I think all variants against each other. I don't have a good way to record the kemper that isn't the kemper.

    But you are right, comparing the preamp of the engl against the profiles preamp is where the difference is the most noticeable.

    In theory it shouldn't. It's really hard to convey this over the internet. At one point I even contacted kemper in Germany and thought about visiting the showroom. Buy it's a 4 hour drive so it's not exactly a spontaneous thing to do.

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    It would be nice if you could really put into words what you didnt like about the Kemper sound. What makes a real amp so much better?

    For me Kemper comes really close in the tone of the sound. Newer AI based units may come a little closer, but they usually have some points in the freq band that are meh. Or they sound too close to the real amp, which actually sounds meh.

    Kemper has great feel, which many players say.


    My criticism is most gainy profiles are almost all low mids, no low bass. And lacking bass makes them dull and lifeless. So I find myself trying all kinds of tricks to soup them up. So overall the sound is compressed and dead. Every note is the same volume. Where plugging into an amp feels super dynamic. Your sound is more alive and volume adjusts with how you are playing.

    My point is not to trash the Kemper. It is to give you an example of what it is you may not like about modeling device in general. Because on paper, they should be the best thing ever.

    The Kemper is still the best I have played. But I find myself playing tricks and constantly turning the volume up trying to get a dynamic feel out of it. I wrote my own VST and this never happens. I just play it and enjoy. But that is probably some heavy bias on my part. Also it has tricks built in 8o

    "But almost all players have said the same thing as you. I bought it and traded it. Then came back. Amps are better but not worth the hassle." So what is it digital sims are missing?

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    My Journey,

    So I get a Kemper in 2013, profile my amps, listen back and forth, and over the next year end up selling amps I thought I'd be buried with!

    I then took a few years and spent $1000 buying commercial profiles and sifting for rubies in the clay of free profiles. For my money, always loved TAF profiles. (why? If I liked some famous sound, I'd research the guitar and amp, buy the guitar, find the TAF amp profile, and be able to reproduce the sound exactly. So that convinced me his engineering was on key replications for famous commercial sounds)

    Of course I was always interested in "what else is out there". I'd sometimes I'd get an analog amp (ie trade gear and figure I could sell the amp for more than what I traded) and enjoyed the immediate "turn on, play" aspect (bc the Kemper took 45s to start. always has for me even if I have 1 profile on it.) Talk about impatient! And I'd build up a pedal board, and eventually sell or trade it all off. Plus, I'd play my friends digital amps. Often the Fractals. I owned an ULTRA before the KPA. And played the FXI and FXII. I thought they're amps were always a step lower and many of their effects a step up from Kemper, and for the FXII I still think the amps aren't as good, many KPA effects are as good, but I still like the FXII grid. Haven't played the FXIII yet. With the FXII XL+ I felt it was a fun box for people who love 80s rock, but otherwise, no one could do a 1955 Gibson amp better than Kemper.

    Then I was playing live with some friends that I helped build a studio with (I'm more into studio gear than playing live. I write songs and record them, so I'm essentially a studio hound, not a live player, hence the Kemper is perfect) and bought some amps (64 Reverb HW & VOX AC15 HW, built some of my own (Fender 57, Marshall Bluesbreaker)

    I have a favorite free profile of a VOX AC15 HW and so wanted the hardware, but the profile is better for me for some reason. I even got the OX box by UA and a KHE 4x4 to be able to switch all 4 amps between all 4 analog amps and can play them in headphones and record digitally now.

    Then a friend wanted to sell his Fractal FX II XL+ so I got it for a good price ($700) and aim to connect that as a pedal board for my Kemper. Or use the Kemper as an Amp Block in the Fractal. Not sure yet. I love that Fractal 12x4 grid, it's so easy to manipulate. I did this originally with the Fractal ULTRA back in 2013 so I know it works well.

    So now... I think I'll sell my pedals again down to 3-6, sell 2 of the commercial amps and keep the 2 I built and stay mostly digital for recording, and keep the 2 analog for rare live playing or practice when no one is home. It's less wires to bring the Fender 57 Deluxe than to take a Kemper & Cabinet. Plus the KPA is wired into the studio so I have a chore to rewire it all back if I grab & go.

    One thing I've never done is sell the Kemper. I always find a good use for it on recordings. And I've played songs for guys who do swear by amps and they never go "man, your guitar amps sound fake" bc they dont'. But thats what $1000 journey with profiles nets you. The search and money whittle you down to the profiles you love.

    I'm not interested in the FXIII until it's price comes down below $1000. IDK if I'd get a Kemper 2.0 if such a thing will exist, unless my current one dies. 11 years and no problems, knock-on-wood. And even then I think the only advantage for me would be if it had Wi-Fi like the Stage. Maybe also the ability to pickup Bluetooth so I could play along with music on my iPhone's Spotify? Ok, daydream over!

    Kemper has been one of those boxes that checks what I needed for sounding professional on recordings with guitars. It's right up there with my vocal chain solution which is 10x more expensive (mine is UA 87ai -> BAE DMP -> WA-2A with NOS SONY tubes -> EQP-WA with NOS SONY tubes to UA Apollo 8p interface and rackmount digital reverbs. I also have a UA 6176 as backup for that chain. and a SM57/R122 pair for Acoustic) That vocal chain was the box checked for making vocals sound pro (plus UA's Lexicon 224 or 480L reverbs, like WOW plugins)

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    Quote from RosboneMako

    So what is it digital sims are missing?

    I would love it if someone came out with a room deoderizer that had that 'new tube burning' smell. That's the only thing I really miss. And there is really something very classy about the look of a plexi sitting on a 412 or an old blackface that the digital world just can't match.

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    Quote from dfdfan

    I would love it if someone came out with a room deoderizer that had that 'new tube burning' smell. That's the only thing I really miss. And there is really something very classy about the look of a plexi sitting on a 412 or an old blackface that the digital world just can't match.

    I have been writing VST stuff for fun and made a few amp type things. And I guarantee no one would ever pay for one. And I also guarantee that if it had a picture of a hot burning tube head on it, I would sell a million and people would say it sounds awesome.

    Look and feel and is a huge thing in guitar. So much of what we play comes from some weird place of inspiration. So I would agree 100% having an stack all lit up is always going to be better 8)

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    On this whole Amp vs Kemper thing:

    1) I always play my Kemper thru a decent clean amp and flat monitor speakers. Low volume. It sounds ok.

    2) When I test profiles on RE they always sound dead and mid heavy.

    3) When I see profiles on the RE, mid heavy and dull is usually upvoted.

    4) When I play my Kemper thru my Edifier desktop speakers, it sounds amazing.


    Idea: The amp you use for digital devices is the thing that will make or break that device.


    AMP

    My normal stereo amp sounds worse the louder it goes. The Edifiers sound better the louder you go.


    SPEAKERS

    My original speakers did not have enough high end. They were "flat". They did not sound "great". I added new tweeters sounds much better.
    Edifiers sound great all the time every volume. Missing some mids (probably what I like).

    OTHER DATA
    I always play my Kemper thru the studio monitors and have thought about getting rid of it numerous times.
    I write my VST stuff on the Edifiers and love the way it sounds.
    There is no way the VST crap I write is as good as the Kemper.
    I have moved my Kemper to the Edifiers and have actually a few sounds I love now (profiles of my VST).

    VOLUME

    The volume you play at affects the sounds a lot. That is why I think people love mid heavy sounds here. Cause most are playing out at LOUD volumes. Those mids are going to get cleaned up by amp saturation, speaker compression, PA speaker freq responses, and our hearing adjusting to volume.

    SUMMARY
    So I think people dont keep all of these things in mind. They expect the digital device to sound great in all situations and volumes. Which is just not possible. Especially when day to day things sound different anyway.

    If I play a tone for a 15 minutes then go back to my fav tone, it does not sound as good. My ears adjust to the last tone I was using. So its is very hard to say "YES" this is better. Its just different.

    So you want an amp that saturates in a good way.
    You want speakers that have some ass and are crisp enough to get the chime and bite without too much harshness.
    Get those two things and profit 8)

    • New
    Quote from RosboneMako

    I have been writing VST stuff for fun and made a few amp type things. And I guarantee no one would ever pay for one. And I also guarantee that if it had a picture of a hot burning tube head on it, I would sell a million and people would say it sounds awesome.

    Look and feel and is a huge thing in guitar. So much of what we play comes from some weird place of inspiration. So I would agree 100% having an stack all lit up is always going to be better 8)

    I have to admit, after a few years with the toaster, I was finally ready to start offloading a room full of pretty expensive heads, cabs and stompboxes. Now its just me, kemper and a room full of guitars but I would actually consider buying friedman's new plex rig. I trust him more than Marshall in this day and age and it is just a thing of absolute beauty. My heart says 'YES!' but my old man back is threating to kick the shit out of me. lol

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    OP: IME, When things sound good at home but not on stage or rehearsals it's always a matter of properly EQ'ing.

    Tones must be made at volume and in the mix context. Most often, a tone that sound glorious alone will die in the mix and when you raise volume up. This happens because of the way we hear sounds.

    At low volume we perceive much more mids, so tend to raise lows. When you raise your volume the prevalence of mids ceases, and you find your tone engulfed/flooded, and don't cut.

    As for eq'ing for the mix, the more frequencies from the various instruments occupy the same ranges, the more sounds get lost (for example, pianists are recommended to not use the first two octaves when playing with a bass).

    I'd suggest you search for "isolated electric guitar tracks" for tunes you know well, in order to realise how weird those tones have to sound by themselves in order for them to sound good in the whole mix.

    HTH :)

    Still chasing a worthy one :/

    Edited once, last by pippopluto (October 2, 2024 at 1:36 AM).