Kemper vs. Real Amp Test - Cameron CCV

Quote from ColdFrixion

Do you know who Andy Sneap is?

I know who I am, and that was not Andy to present me the kpa I bought it with my money in April 2012

Quote from Dean_R

I'm going by the opening post Where WEBB said it was for fun and that he could get it closer if he spent more time.
Well, I do recall him taking a second attempt at getting it closer and he posted the second attempt. You yourself acknowledged that he got closer in his second attempt, and asked him how!! so I'm not sure how you concluded that there's an issue with KPA not getting the profile to close to the real amp.

All I'm saying is this is your personal experience and it's not necessarily a true reflection of what the KPA is capable of since many users are getting pretty damn close.

I listened to WEBBS second attempt and I thought it's pretty damn close aside from the level or volume issue.

Actually his second attempt is a pretty good and I would think that guitar players would be thrilled to get this close (I bet you if you level the volume for both, it's pretty impressive)

You are referring to posts 247 & 248. And Webb said, at a minimum, that he changed the amp settings and mic placement. So we are now supposed to change our tones and mic placements so the KPA can properly profile the amp?? Or is there a technique hiding there we could have learned from? These are the kinds of questions we are trying to get answered.

Quote from FaZz

I know who I am, and that was not Andy to present me the kpa I bought it with my money in April 2012

Well, since you brought up customers paying you for your work, Andy Sneap won a Grammy for his, and clients that want to work with him have to go through a record label. Sneap has stated that he can't hear a difference in the studio, so suffice it to say he doesn't consider the KPA a toy. It's one of the tools he uses to make money. If the Kemper is good enough for him to use with his clients, it stands to reason that it should be good enough for people who haven't won a Grammy. His clients certainly aren't complaining.

Quote from SonicExporer

What could have become a very interesting thread has been completely derailed by the usual suspects who (each of them for his own reasons) try to descredit a small company and its very famous users like Sneap & Waegener..

SonicExplorer

I am still waiting for proof for your hillarious claims.If you continue to claim (with no evidence at all) that the worlds best producers are on the "paylist" of Kemper I will claim that you are a troll on the paylist of L6.I got no proof.I just take your funny and completely hillarious claim and use it as circumstantial evidence(and yes you did say this Sir) that your L6-POD has a better latency than the KPA...and this despite your alleged "40 years of recording experience".

Enough said.

Sneap demonstrates how close the Kemper is to the actual amp:

Jump to 9:22

Mic placement. Yet another "live" problem. I used to have a little piece of tape that denoted exactly where to point my mic live. If it got bumped, the tone changed.

Haven't had that problem with the KPA.

For every trivial difference anyone can point out between the KPA and the "real tube amp", I can point to issues in tone discrepancy that you have with a real tube amp that you do not have with the KPA live.

If there are some issues with the KPA that result in less than a perfect amp capture, then I am all for the Kemper team resolving them and making the product even better than it already is; however, it is already quite good. Better than anything else on the market (at digitally duplicating a tube amp) as far as I can hear.

What I would like to hear is two amp samples of the same amp, say 6 months apart. I would bet there would be very different sounds from the two clips.

Do the same thing with the Kemper and I would imagine there would be exactly 0 differences.

Doesn't consistently good tone, night after night, outweigh any trivial difference between the "original amp" and the profiled reproduction?

Guys... continue to have fun with your crap. I did not need to hear any guru tell me what I hear and what not. Andy does not feel differences? fine! I am glad for him. how this should change my point of view? I have to stop to hear with my own ears? Maybe I'm schizophrenic and I hear strange things? or do I have to repeat again that the kpa is so difficult to use that only a select few succeed? Oooo yes! I’m a troll! sure!

Please stop with these devious tricks and focus on help to finally solve the problem or please change instrument …did you try a balalaika?

Quote from FaZz

Guys... continue to have fun with your crap. I did not need to hear any guru tell me what I hear and what not. Andy does not feel differences? fine! I am glad for him. how this should change my point of view? I have to stop to hear with my own ears? Maybe I'm schizophrenic and I hear strange things? or do I have to repeat again that the kpa is so difficult to use that only a select few succeed? Oooo yes! I’m a troll! sure!

Please stop with these devious tricks and focus on help to finally solve the problem or please change instrument …did you try a balalaika?

Andy Sneap wasn't telling anyone what they do or don't hear, he was solely referring to his own ears. However, the point is, if a guy who works with major labels and has won a Grammy doesn't care (and his customers aren't complaining) then the differences must be pretty trivial. Yes, I hear the differences in many cases. They're real. I'm certainly not claiming they aren't. But let's not get carried away here. If you obsessively focus on anything long enough, it's easy to blow it out of proportion.

Look, if you think the problems aren't trivial, then you should have no trouble identifying the Kemper in the blind test I posted the other day. If you can't identify it, then it tends to show you're not as good at identifying the problems you're so eager to solve as you think you are. And if you can't identify them in a blind test, are they really that obvious?

Dear ColdFrixion... I begin to love you! I hope you're kidding right? Yes! you are certainly kidding!

we have to unequivocally clarify our two positions

-for you the kpa is fine, as it is in all applications

-for me, it works well, for live and pre-production. for the recording, I still prefer the real-amps

I do not try to convince you, you do not try to convince me! This is called freedom of thought.

Instead, freedom of speech, allowing both you and me to express our own views ... right?

My point of view and goal is to support as I can, the kemper team to improve its great product. (I can do it the wrong way but I try)

what's yours?

I can hear a difference with a lot of profiles, so of course I want the Kemper development team to improve the profiling process, too. The question is whether the differences are big or small. If someone claims that the differences they hear are noticeable and obvious, then how is asking them to put their perception to the test an attempt to limit their freedom of thought? If the differences are really that noticeable, then the person making the claim should have no trouble identifying them in a blind test, correct? If you can't hear them, what does that say about how noticeable the differences really are?

Anyway, you can think whatever you want. That doesn't necessarily make it true. Do you want to know the truth? Testing can separate fact from fiction.

... or fact from Fake News™.

Sorry. Carry on. Riveting thread.

hahahahahah yes you definitively still kidding...good luck!

Quote from FaZz

hahahahahah yes you definitively still kidding...good luck!

You didn't answer the question. Do you want to know the truth?

-

I have no idea what he thinks I'm kidding about.

Why do I have an impression that most users who participate in this thread are talking past each other..

I will try to post my "main issues" this thread COULD be about:

1.Do the KPA does sound exactly like the profiled amp;

2.What needs to be done to achieve this;

3.What are the limits of the KPA:

And my main issue..

4.Does the KPA does always sound slightly or much different than the profiled amp and does this affect the sound quality,the fun of playing or does the KPA does indeed sound in many occasions different but "still good" as a well miced tube amp;

Actually this^^,number 4 could be a very,very interesting topic..why;Because on most "legend recordings" the miced tube amp did not exactly sound like the ampintheroom but the producers,enigeers tried to "change" the sounds of the very few amps they had "back at the beginning of rocknroll" to "something very special"..they just did not have thousand different amp-developers.Marshall,Fender,HiWatt,Orange..even Mesa came much later.

Well..do guys like the most famous producers actually try to tell us exactly this;Does Sneap or Wagaener actually try to tell us that the KPA is a very,very professional tool that "can work out" miced tube amps as THEY NEED it;

I believe yes.Actually I think it is quite obvious.

And this is the reason these guys use the KPA (and not shitty L6 stuff or even better sounding AxeFX)..they need it as tool to make their tube amps sound the way they need it through micing,filtering,"blending" different tube amps into one sound.

It is sad that we have here (also in this thread) selfdeclared hybrids of Paul Gilbert & Tony Maserati (dont forget @SoniceExplorers ability to play faster than anyone else on this planet "detecting" latency on 356-quintuplets as well as his "40 years of recording experience") who never talked about these tricky little things you WILL do if you are indeed somehow at least a professional sound engineer not talking about to be a producer..

The KPA can do a lot.

Are there things it can not do;Ofcourse.But if someone talks ONLY about the things this little magic box CAN NOT do,claiming that world class pros are idiots or at least "on the paylist" of the smallest of all modelling developers..well then there should ring some bells I guess.

Quote from ColdFrixion

Sneap demonstrates how close the Kemper is to the actual amp:

Jump to 9:22

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Well this way EZMIX sounds also spot on compared to real amps from 0"44 Yes or Not?

Stay Metal!

Quote from sinmix

Well this way EZMIX sounds also spot on compared to real amps from 0"44 Yes or Not?

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No, not spot on. The bottom end of the EZMix version is a bit more compressed and flubby, but it's splitting hairs.

Quote from ColdFrixion

No, not spot on. The bottom end of the EZMix version is a bit more compressed and flubby, but it's splitting hairs.

So again bottom end problem? Kemper Ezmix Ampsims For me on Andy video with Kemper also dont sounds spot on - so again not a proof for anything for Me (and not only for Me). But Lets wait for another product and Andy reviews. TBH Love all Sneap mixes but old ones without Kemper.

Stay Metal!

Quote from sinmix

So again bottom end problem? Kemper Ezmix Ampsims For me on Andy video with Kemper also dont sounds spot on - so again not a proof for anything for Me (and not only for Me). But Lets wait for another product and Andy reviews. TBH Love all Sneap mixes but old ones without Kemper.
Stay Metal!

The first two EZMix samples were pretty darn close. The third one wasn't. However, I've A/B'd Sneap's Kemper / amp samples in my DAW and switched between them at random. He did a great job, in my opinion. I mean, if there's a difference in the bottom end, I can't hear it. It's like looking at a pile of sand and trying to find a few grains that are out of place.