2nd mix out of new studio - Follow Me

    Trying to get a good sound double-tracking guitar for Rock and a more balanced mix. The solo was just winged with no real plan (sorry). All the guitars used the TAF-Fan Cet Muff + profile. Rhythm was my Epi Les Paul Custom with ProBuckers, and the solo was done on my Jackson KillStrat with a Duncan Custom HB. I used a small bit of midrange boost on the bass (Squire Precision) to give it a better midrange growl with the Brass Diver GEQ Metal profile.

    Let me know where to go from here.

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    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Larry, the delay on main rhythm ( 1st min) is counterproductive & it's adding an offbeat feel that deserve your track

    Solo is no pb , but rhythm placement is way too late , did you play against the drums ?

    Sorry to be rude but you need to work more tight to the drums , like just before the drums and push it again an again to leave that drummer behind.

    Quote from waraba

    Larry, the delay on main rhythm ( 1st min) is counterproductive & it's adding an offbeat feel that deserve your track

    Solo is no pb , but rhythm placement is way too late , did you play against the drums ?

    Sorry to be rude but you need to work more tight to the drums , like just before the drums and push it again an again to leave that drummer behind.

    I nudged each Guitar and Bass track a few milliseconds to line up perfectly before I rendered to get it as tight as I could. If I nudged any more then the guitars would be leading the drums. I'm afraid I would need to actually "see" you manipulate the guitar tracks to understand how to proceed.

    The delay was set to the BPM of the song. I didn't like the tone without the delay because it sounded too brash, but it's a delay plugin so easy to remove.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Edited 2 times, last by BayouTexan (May 5, 2023 at 4:35 PM).

    Quote from BayouTexan

    I'm afraid I would need to actually "see" you manipulate the guitar tracks to understand how to proceed.

    thx for the feedback, I never time manipulate my guitar tracks , I play mostly in front of the drums , this is the feel you need to get, hard to explain & master but it will definitely make you sound like a pro. The only way to acquire it is to play with a dry tone (no delay) against the drum , every day till you master it. Go for groovy drum patterns that drive your internal energy & clock , go for your inner excited kid and rush it until your drummer is dead, biting the dust. :D

    Quote from waraba

    thx for the feedback, I never time manipulate my guitar tracks , I play mostly in front of the drums , this is the feel you need to get, hard to explain & master but it will definitely make you sound like a pro. The only way to acquire it is to play with a dry tone (no delay) against the drum , every day till you master it. Go for groovy drum patterns that drive your internal energy & clock , go for your inner excited kid and rush it until your drummer is dead, biting the dust. :D

    Okay, now I am totally confused. You want me to play before the click and let the drums drag behind? No one has ever told me this before. I've always been told to play on the click. I can easily fix this in the mix by just nudging the drum track behind the click.

    I only came up with this article and video which adds to the confusion.

    https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/6768…the-actual-beat

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    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    sorry for the confusion, it's an eternal debate , of course you'll have to learn to play on the beat as a junior guitarist , but once you have some skill playing on beat , your inner style will start to appear. It's a personal feel , but most talented rock & metal player will play a bit before the drum ( Eddie ) , except laid back players like Billy Gibbons.

    it's good to alternate push and late feel to add some variety in your play.

    For now focus on the beat as tight as you can, and your brain will soon anticipate and push your hand a bit in front.

    further killer ref:

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    Larry,

    the problem isn ´t dragging or rushing, the sound is ok, too.

    but the rhythm of guitar AND bass is so far away from the beat, that sometimes it doesnt make sense anymore.

    just listened to the intro, which is at least confusing, but than the first riff part is a total mess. to a point that i can´t listen to it.

    sorry, but that´s true.

    some ideas:

    maybe you shouldn´t nudge the audio, maybe something goes wrong here?

    maybe your tracking goes wrong because of delay compensation issues?

    maybe your timing goes wrong in the mixing because of delay compensation issues?

    turn off all the plugins to find out.

    I turned off the delays and nudged the drum overheads to last part of beat (I heard that being rushed with delays off).. This is the best I can do without re-tracking it or changing some of the chord progressions, and the solo needs to be re-tracked. To be honest... I can't stand the sound of the double-tracked guitars without a delay.

    Let me know if it's closer. This type of mix may just be trouble for me.

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    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Edited once, last by BayouTexan (May 5, 2023 at 7:41 PM).

    Quote from MuddySludge

    You should re-track it and get into the pocket.

    Keith Richards could play so far behind the beat he was actually ahead of the one coming up.

    :D:D:D

    I'm moving on to the next mix already. But will take your advice to redo when I have more mixes behind me. I do realize I won't be able to make everything work even with loads of experience. Truthfully, I need to practice plain sounding guitar with no effects to see what I can do with it.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Edited once, last by BayouTexan (May 5, 2023 at 8:03 PM).

    With riffs keep it simple. You don’t need clever timing, you can even be a little sloppy but you do need reinforcement of the pattern.

    If your rhythm is : chopping up celery, making food tonight. Then to make it sound intentional for rock you need to emphasize Beats 1 (cho), 2(cel), 3(y) | 1(ma) 2(food) 3(nigh) 4(t),

    With a strong riff like this your bass is going to be at its best if it’s playing the same rhythm as the guitar, not something else.

    Finally your drums should also emphasize such a riff, in this case it’s triplets on the first bar and semiquavers on the second. Kick snare snare kick gap snare kick (small fill) , cymbal + kick + snare on down beats toms on up beats mirroring the riff again.

    This can become a lot of work so use such riffs sparingly. Most pop and rock tracks are like 99% chugging muted chords with a power riff played only a couple of times in the whole track (less is more).

    Thanks Per! I think it's worth redoing later and remove some chop progressions and loosen up some of the drum fills. The drum track took me way longer than any other - I understand why now.

    Just know that when I get these mixes perfect then I will have to start charging you to listen. :P

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.