IK Multimedia Tone x, anyone tried it yet.

Quote from lbieber

We could quibble about the meaning of 'game changer', but there is nothing to be gained from that discussion IMO. What you describe regarding IK is nothing significant from my perspective, it is simply a different gear manifestation and won't result in any sound improvement over what I already have with the Kemper

I actually agree with you. I used quotes for "game changer" as tongue in cheek. But seriously, when it comes out it will probably be a worthy competitor to the high-end profiling all-in-one marke and will suit some people's needs more than others. For my uses, the KPA is still the top: spillover between presets, volume compensation, ducking on most effects, and never needing to worry about DSP. I just returned the QC because I liked my KPA more

Quote: “We could quibble about the meaning of 'game changer', but there is nothing to be gained from that discussion IMO.”

I totally agree.

So, let’s not discuss it, but go instead to the dictionary to see what the term actually means:

“An event, idea, or procedure that effects a significant shift in the current way of doing or thinking about something.”

With due respect to everyone involved in this discussion. In the light of the dictionary definition, it’s clear that such hyperbole cannot genuinely be applied to the plethora of newly emerging products.

They appear to be following and taking advantage of a trend, long established by ingenious originators and their market leading product. Either adding cosmetically superficial features or presenting more limited, cheaper products. Albeit some are quite expensive, but more poorly implemented reinterpretations.

I suspect that many purchasers of the cheaper devices will actually be in a similar position to those who aspire to own a Custom Shop Gibson, Custom Shop Fender or a Boutique Guitar, but find the cost of such products, beyond their financial means at this present moment. So, purchase a Chinese Epiphone or a Mexican Fender etc.

They will have a usefully playable, reasonably well-made product, they derive real pleasure from owning.

But have no doubt, the truth is, they will continue to aspire to own, "the real thing.”

I don't know if it's a game changer, but there is already 7 pages of discussion about this product when the usual topic in the "other gear" part of the forum don't usually go very far.
For me it's the first vst which i think is a good substitute for the Kemper (with perhaps TH-U). The stock profiles are meh but there are great finds on ToneNet and good profiles are coming to the platform. However, effects in the Kemper are better (but you can add your own trough other vst).
Whatever you write, it will probably make a dent in Kemper sales.

Kemper is an all-in-one solution. But regarding pure "amp tone" Tonex did surprise me (and I think many others). In a fair comparison (not presets, but with the same setup captured) Tonex does a better job atm. It's even closer to the source, feels great and can easily capture amps, pedals and setups that Kemper struggles.

Also how well the gain knob works on Tonex (even adding quite an amount of gain) and how it reacts with pedals is just really awesome.

For getting best results when using drive pedals with Kemper, I need to search for a profile with more gain than needed, than reduce the gain to around 2.1 and adjust some more parameters to get it working right.

With Tonex I just engage the drive pedal and it sounds as expected from the start.

And it is dirt cheap imo!! I bought a second Walrus Ages overdrive for my pedalboard and these two alone cost more. Now I can even make captures of my favourite settings and put them before Tonex in Amplitube for example. Just fun for me.

I really hope Kemper does introduce some kind of "automatic improved refining" process. That could be a strategic move to keep up with the evolution and give better results for people struggling with how to refine a profile the proper way.

Quote: “However, effects in the Kemper are better (but you can add your own trough other vst). Whatever you write, it will probably make a dent in Kemper sales.”

Thank you for your thoughts.

I appreciate the admission that effects in the Kemper are superior. That perfectly accords with my own experience.

You make an excellent point in stating that the regrettably inferior effects in emerging products can be mitigated by adding VST’s.

Then go on to presumptively hypothesize in speculative supposition that such products will probably make a dent in Kemper profiling amp sales.

Following the logic of your own well explained, prophetic arguments.

What is not in doubt is that that considerable ongoing dents in the pockets of purchasers of such equipment, will be a marked feature of ownership.

As procuring all the extra VST’s a user desires to acquire, will inevitably involve additional monetary outlay, on an ongoing basis, to pay for the cost of obtaining them.

As it is in the very nature of typical guitar owners to continually upwardly aspire towards and seek that magic bullet product that will lift their performance to another level.

It is reasonable to predict that over a period of time, acquiring all the VST’s they aspire to own, will inevitably involve the accumulated expenditure of quite a princely sum of money.

A sum, which if totalled and fully taken together, properly understood at the point of the initial sale of the central device, would probably be likely to deter them from ever purchasing it in the first place.

I mention this because, prior to purchasing my Kemper I sat down with my local dealer for an hour and he explained the background of the various companies that produced the various products I could purchase.

I was told that Kemper originated as synthesiser hardware equipment manufacturers. Another competitor manufacturer it was explained to me originated as software designers of VST instruments.

I asked if it was likely that if I chose the latter product, I would need to be continually spending further monies in order to acquire additional VST instruments and effects in order to get the best from the central device?

Yes, I was told. The company made some excellent VST’s but the best of those would most likely to involve further additional purchases. Indeed, that continuing updates to such VST products, adding more features and improved sonics, in new VST releases gave the company a continual additional revenue stream.

So, as it appeared to me the choice was as follows:

Pay a significant premium up front from a hardware manufacturer for a well proven, versatile professional tool that rendered everything I wished for, and gave free product updates will many thousands of profiles readily available at zero cost.

Or purchase a newer, cheaper cosmetically flashier product from a company with little experience of hardware manufacturing, and that was currently experiencing a lot of seemingly difficult to resolve product issues according to its users. One that would require ongoing, continual, significant additional investment for the best VST’s the company was noted for.

In my case, compellingly, there was also the issue that right out of the box the latter device only had four profiles of my favourite amplifier.

Whilst the Kemper had literally hundreds of profiles of my favourite amp, free to download through Rig Manager.

This was the reasoning process behind my purchase of the Kemper.

In regard to Kemper sales.

A large part of my experience and background has been with high end, premium products with commensurate price tags.

Generally speaking, when there is an ongoing economic turndown, people that cannot afford a product avoid purchasing it altogether until the economy improves.

Whereas, the typical purchasers of high-end products tend to be in an altogether better position to weather an economic storm. They can still afford to buy, what they aspire to own.

This means that well established, profitable manufacturers of premium products tend to be less adversely affected by negative economic outlooks and trends in the wider economic community and continue to advance their company.

No doubt, some consumers will turn toward cheaper, far more limited products, made to a price in China, and take temporary satisfaction in using them. Good for them, I genuinely wish them all the best.

However, mass market technological products do not stay the course over time in my experience. Made to a cost, they tend to be less reliable, and do not generate a premium in their profit margins, so cannot over time, afford a high level of customer service. This should be self-evident to anyone with a wide experience of product manufacturing.

It doesn't matter to them, investors will have made their money and ran. Furthermore, whilst the initial product run tends to be flush with copious labour thus the product regularly validated for quality. Over time companies seek to reduce the product cost, re-engineering to find cheaper manufacturing processes and seeking cheaper part suppliers, to increase their tight profit margins.

You see, they have to sell very many, many more units altogether, to generate anything like the actual profitability of that of a premium manufacturer. Here today, gone tomorrow, is built into the genetic make up of many cheaper manufacturers.

In the final analysis, it is only the generation of such profitability that will enable them to stay in business.

Let alone ,ever reinvest in the production of any innovative device or product updates.

Or honour warrantees, giving good customer service and product repairs.

Premium products generate better profits.

This enables the business to establish itself over time, to grow and build new products.

Cheap products from "Johnny come lately" manufacturers, will always be around, hanging onto the coat tails of genuine innovators.

The real question is whether one prefers to continually throw one’s money around speculating on every emerging device. Attempting to find a product that will lift one’s performance to a slightly higher level. A matter that often amounts to subjective personal opinion.

Or make a sound investment in a proven company that will stay the course, and be there for you when you need them.

As this excellently moderated forum more than adequately demonstrates.

It is the proof in the pudding of all the above!

Another thing that drew me to Kemper initially is - I'm old fashioned - I like twisting knobs - and the studio is nearest to a conventional amp ergonomically. I did twist a mouse once but it broke.