What is needed to add wireless to legacy Toasters/Racks for wireless app

Quote from Allenhuish

Hi there,

I would like to start a thread that is limited to *only* what hardware has been found to work or should work to allow wireless to be added to our legacy devices.

I did a video with an explanation...

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If you don't want to read the whole thread here are some devices that work:

Vogels/Vonet wifi access point Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3dmKNFU

Amazon US - https://amzn.to/36aq04t

TP-Link Switch with Power

Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/36aqpnv

Amazon US - https://amzn.to/3h1QuLI

Power adapter to use one cable for kemper and router

Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3qsyTj4

The manual is not 100% clear so I will try to summarise my findings so far and what I have seen on this forum. I will also attempt to make it as simple as possible for those of us who are not that technically minded.

The Kemper needs to be connected to a device called a 'router' which is wifi enabled. This wifi router also needs to be able to function as an 'access point' if you want to run it stand-alone (at a gig) without another network (e.g. your home wifi network). As the manual says, this router needs to be connected via the ethernet socket on the back of the kemper. (easily bought on amazon, but see below)

The remote also needs to be connected to that socket so you have to connect the wire from the remote to a socket on the router. However, (and this is important), the remote needs to be powered. It receives its power from the kemper through the ethernet socket normally so you have to find a way to add power to the cable that goes to the remote. This can be done via a POE (power over ethernet) injector (easily bought on amazon).

So, if you do it like this you will have 2 boxes (one router and one poe injector) which both need a power supply plugged in somewhere. You will then need a short cable to go from kemper to router, then another cable from router to poe injector and then a long cable from poe injector to the remote.

If you are like me then you will want to reduce the number of cables and power supplies that you have to lug around and this is where it gets interesting.

There are such things as routers that are powered by POE, so that has the potential to lose one power supply (because the router doesn't need a power supply if it's powered from the kemper from the ethernet cable). Many of these routers are designed for home networking where things are wired into small spaces so they are probably small enough to go in the back of the kemper.

There are also routers which will do POE 'pass through'. In other words it will take the power coming in from the kemper and then pass it on to the cable going out to the remote. The first issue is that the router needs 2 ethernet sockets. Many small wifi routers powered by POE do not, but a small number do.

However, then we get into the issues of how much power and how is it delivered. In this case, there are multiple standards of how this is done (802.3af, etc.) and I have not seen confirmation from kemper on what standard we need to follow (it says 'mode a' in the manual, but this is not quite enough information I believe). Supported are IEEE standard 802.3af-2003 as well as 802.3at-2009 mode A. There is also a lack of documentation from router companies about the detail of what they need coming and out of their power supplies.

In a perfect world, we could find a device which will be powered over POE and will pass-through POE to the remote. If this was the case, then legacy owners could buy one box, with no power supply and tuck it into the back of the kemper and have it all in one with no additional power supplies etc.

So coming back to the point of this thread. Please post the products (preferably with a web link) that you have found that we can try or research to be able to achieve this goal. I will shortly add some that I have found. Please don't clutter up the thread with comments such as 'I'm confused' or 'why not android' etc. those comments can go in plenty of other threads.

Display More

Nice work Allen, that's really awesome stuff and very helpful. Is the wireless access point mandatory or could you just hook the switch up to the home network and therefore existing wifi with an ethernet cable?

Hi Allen!

Had a quick question, I know it doesn't involve wireless, just wondering what your thoughts are on a hardwired USB to Cat5 connectivity between the new Player and the Remote? I am so used to the Remote, was wondering if that would even be possible.

Thanks!

Quote from Burkhard

In simple terms: Player+Remote=Stage

You will get 8 Effect slots plus all the effects and stereo XLR out by just adding a remote to the Player?

Quote from jlooknyc

You will get 8 Effect slots plus all the effects and stereo XLR out by just adding a remote to the Player?

No. That definitely isn’t the case.

I think what Burkhard was saying is that if you are going to need a Player plus a Remote then you would be better pff with a stage in the first place.

Quote from Allenhuish

Hi there,

I would like to start a thread that is limited to *only* what hardware has been found to work or should work to allow wireless to be added to our legacy devices.

I did a video with an explanation...

External Content youtu.be

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

If you don't want to read the whole thread here are some devices that work:

Vogels/Vonet wifi access point Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3dmKNFU

Amazon US - https://amzn.to/36aq04t

TP-Link Switch with Power

Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/36aqpnv

Amazon US - https://amzn.to/3h1QuLI

Power adapter to use one cable for kemper and router

Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3qsyTj4

The manual is not 100% clear so I will try to summarise my findings so far and what I have seen on this forum. I will also attempt to make it as simple as possible for those of us who are not that technically minded.

The Kemper needs to be connected to a device called a 'router' which is wifi enabled. This wifi router also needs to be able to function as an 'access point' if you want to run it stand-alone (at a gig) without another network (e.g. your home wifi network). As the manual says, this router needs to be connected via the ethernet socket on the back of the kemper. (easily bought on amazon, but see below)

The remote also needs to be connected to that socket so you have to connect the wire from the remote to a socket on the router. However, (and this is important), the remote needs to be powered. It receives its power from the kemper through the ethernet socket normally so you have to find a way to add power to the cable that goes to the remote. This can be done via a POE (power over ethernet) injector (easily bought on amazon).

So, if you do it like this you will have 2 boxes (one router and one poe injector) which both need a power supply plugged in somewhere. You will then need a short cable to go from kemper to router, then another cable from router to poe injector and then a long cable from poe injector to the remote.

If you are like me then you will want to reduce the number of cables and power supplies that you have to lug around and this is where it gets interesting.

There are such things as routers that are powered by POE, so that has the potential to lose one power supply (because the router doesn't need a power supply if it's powered from the kemper from the ethernet cable). Many of these routers are designed for home networking where things are wired into small spaces so they are probably small enough to go in the back of the kemper.

There are also routers which will do POE 'pass through'. In other words it will take the power coming in from the kemper and then pass it on to the cable going out to the remote. The first issue is that the router needs 2 ethernet sockets. Many small wifi routers powered by POE do not, but a small number do.

However, then we get into the issues of how much power and how is it delivered. In this case, there are multiple standards of how this is done (802.3af, etc.) and I have not seen confirmation from kemper on what standard we need to follow (it says 'mode a' in the manual, but this is not quite enough information I believe). Supported are IEEE standard 802.3af-2003 as well as 802.3at-2009 mode A. There is also a lack of documentation from router companies about the detail of what they need coming and out of their power supplies.

In a perfect world, we could find a device which will be powered over POE and will pass-through POE to the remote. If this was the case, then legacy owners could buy one box, with no power supply and tuck it into the back of the kemper and have it all in one with no additional power supplies etc.

So coming back to the point of this thread. Please post the products (preferably with a web link) that you have found that we can try or research to be able to achieve this goal. I will shortly add some that I have found. Please don't clutter up the thread with comments such as 'I'm confused' or 'why not android' etc. those comments can go in plenty of other threads.

Display More

My solution at home is the follwing:

I have a Poe Switch (TP-Link TL-SG1008P 8 Port PoE Switch) connected to my Fr!tzBox Router by Ethernet cable.

I use this to connect also other computers to my network. The Kemper ( toaster) and the remote are connected to this switch with CAT 6 cables.

The remote is connected of course to one of the PoE sockets of the switch.

Without any changes on my router configuration, the Kemper sees the remote ( they are in the same network ) and the Ipad and/or Android( tablet/phone) Rig Manager apps connect to my Kemper with no problems.

Gig/rehearsal - no Wifi solution - I have used the proposed solution from the video linked above.

The devices reccomended in the video (TP-Link TL-SG 0005P and Vonets VAP11G-300) go all at the bottom of my pedalboard where the Kemper remote and other pedals are mounted.

Because no Wifi available, the Switch will work as dhcp router and give addresses in the range 169.254.nnn.nnn to it's LAN. At least this is what I have seen it happens on my network when I disconnect the main router.

The Vonets will bring up a Wireless network working as a bridge and the IPad/Android device(s) will join the same network. ( 169.254.nnn.nnn)

Rig Manager detects my Kemper.

When I turn back home all I have to do is connect the switch on the pedalboard with my home network switch using a CAT 6 cable and then the Ipad and Kemper will all be in my home network and can also access Ethernet on the Ipad. The only disadvantage is I will have to power on the 5 port PoE Switch and the Vonets on the pedalboard even when I am at home.

Otherwise at home I need to connect the kemper and remote to my home network switch and do not use the 5 port switch and the Vonets on the pedalboard.

Quote from cantemir

My solution at home is the follwing:

I have a Poe Switch (TP-Link TL-SG1008P 8 Port PoE Switch) connected to my Fr!tzBox Router by Ethernet cable.

I use this to connect also other computers to my network. The Kemper ( toaster) and the remote are connected to this switch with CAT 6 cables.

The remote is connected of course to one of the PoE sockets of the switch.

Without any changes on my router configuration, the Kemper sees the remote ( they are in the same network ) and the Ipad and/or Android( tablet/phone) Rig Manager apps connect to my Kemper with no problems.

Gig/rehearsal - no Wifi solution - I have used the proposed solution from the video linked above.

The devices reccomended in the video (TP-Link TL-SG 0005P and Vonets VAP11G-300) go all at the bottom of my pedalboard where the Kemper remote and other pedals are mounted.

Because no Wifi available, the Switch will work as dhcp router and give addresses in the range 169.254.nnn.nnn to it's LAN. At least this is what I have seen it happens on my network when I disconnect the main router.

The Vonets will bring up a Wireless network working as a bridge and the IPad/Android device(s) will join the same network. ( 169.254.nnn.nnn)

Rig Manager detects my Kemper.

When I turn back home all I have to do is connect the switch on the pedalboard with my home network switch using a CAT 6 cable and then the Ipad and Kemper will all be in my home network and can also access Ethernet on the Ipad. The only disadvantage is I will have to power on the 5 port PoE Switch and the Vonets on the pedalboard even when I am at home.

Otherwise at home I need to connect the kemper and remote to my home network switch and do not use the 5 port switch and the Vonets on the pedalboard.

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After several tests using the hardware mentioned above, I noticed the following:

1. Gig situation -

1.1 At home when I simulate the gig situatiuon and connect the Ipad to the Kemper (toaster) and to the remote pedal using the VONETS Wifi ( Vonets Wifi Bridge and TP-Link PoE switch ), it works at the beginning, but my Ipad tries always to connect to the other wifi in my network where Internet is available. I think this causes some glitches and therefoe the Rig Manager app looses very frequently the connection to the Profiler. Same issue on Android ( tablet or phone )

1.2 I also noticed that the remote, from time to time switches off, and reconnects after 1-20 seconds to the profiler. This makes the usage of an Ipad(Android tablet) not very reliable. Specially when I try to switch to another performance on the tablet, the connection gets lost.

2. Home - kemper and Remote cvonnected to the same PoE switch in order to use the Ipad.

When connected to the Home Network, Remote and Kemper attached to a switch connected to my home router and the Ipad connects to the same Router via Wifi , the Ipad Rig Manager app is stable, but as noticed on Point 2 the remote switches itself off ( screen bekomes gray ) from time to time and reconnects than again.

3. When Remote is connected directly to the Kemper everthing works fine.

Maybe I should test the "Gig situation no Wifi" in my garage where no other known Wi-Fi connectzions with Internet are available, or switch the main router off.

IMHO the problems above together with the fact that switching to another performance or rig is very annoying on the Ipad, because a Listbox is not available makes this solution quite unreliable.

Anyhow the fact that the Kemper, on the older models, still makes this possiblr is something to be appreciated.

Quote from spotter

Mine was just rebooting all the time and never stayed online... (unpowered Rack). Maybe i will give it a try next time the Editor will be updated. But thank you anyway!

Got the same problem, and posted it on another thread.

Post

RE: What is needed to add wireless to legacy Toasters/Racks for wireless app

[…]

After several tests using the hardware mentioned above, I noticed the following:

1. Gig situation -

1.1 At home when I simulate the gig situatiuon and connect the Ipad to the Kemper (toaster) and to the remote pedal using the VONETS Wifi ( Vonets Wifi Bridge and TP-Link PoE switch ), it works at the beginning, but my Ipad tries always to connect to the other wifi in my network where Internet is available. I think this causes some glitches and therefoe the Rig Manager app looses very…

cantemir

January 28, 2024 at 1:17 PM

Quote from wrbi

I now have my perfect solution.

The Links are only examples to show the product as most of you will not order from amazon germany.

PoE Switch: TP-Link TL-SG1005P

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Router: TP-Link TL-WR802N

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Y-Power cable

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These two Products are on order:

Power Adapter for the TP-Link PoE Switch

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Power Supply for the TP-Link Router uses PoE

https://www.ebay.de/itm/233573706746

Configuring the TL-WR802N as an Acess point was very easy and the connection with the iPad worked immediatelly.

I then had to do some research as the connection to the iPad and the remote broke repeatedly.

it was the "lease renewal" in the DHCP settings of one minute. i changed to Static IP and increased the interval to maximum.

Now it works perfect.

Display More

Hi wrbi,

I have the same problem with the VONETS router, the connection broke very often on my Ipad or android tablet.

You mentioned that you have changed the DHCP lease renewal to one minute, and changed to Static IP. Is this a setting of the TP-Link TL-WR802N Router, does it have a Web Interface for configuring it?

Thank you!

Quote from wrbi

I now have my perfect solution.

The Links are only examples to show the product as most of you will not order from amazon germany.

PoE Switch: TP-Link TL-SG1005P

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Router: TP-Link TL-WR802N

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Y-Power cable

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B01…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

These two Products are on order:

Power Adapter for the TP-Link PoE Switch

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00…0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Power Supply for the TP-Link Router uses PoE

https://www.ebay.de/itm/233573706746

Configuring the TL-WR802N as an Acess point was very easy and the connection with the iPad worked immediatelly.

I then had to do some research as the connection to the iPad and the remote broke repeatedly.

it was the "lease renewal" in the DHCP settings of one minute. i changed to Static IP and increased the interval to maximum.

Now it works perfect.

Display More

cantemir
yes it is a setting in the router and it has a web interface.

Quote from Allenhuish

Hi there,

I would like to start a thread that is limited to *only* what hardware has been found to work or should work to allow wireless to be added to our legacy devices.

I did a video with an explanation...

External Content youtu.be

Content embedded from external sources will not be displayed without your consent.

Display all external content

Through the activation of external content, you agree that personal data may be transferred to third party platforms. We have provided more information on this in our privacy policy.

If you don't want to read the whole thread here are some devices that work:

Vogels/Vonet wifi access point Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3dmKNFU

Amazon US - https://amzn.to/36aq04t

TP-Link Switch with Power

Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/36aqpnv

Amazon US - https://amzn.to/3h1QuLI

Power adapter to use one cable for kemper and router

Amazon UK - https://amzn.to/3qsyTj4

The manual is not 100% clear so I will try to summarise my findings so far and what I have seen on this forum. I will also attempt to make it as simple as possible for those of us who are not that technically minded.

The Kemper needs to be connected to a device called a 'router' which is wifi enabled. This wifi router also needs to be able to function as an 'access point' if you want to run it stand-alone (at a gig) without another network (e.g. your home wifi network). As the manual says, this router needs to be connected via the ethernet socket on the back of the kemper. (easily bought on amazon, but see below)

The remote also needs to be connected to that socket so you have to connect the wire from the remote to a socket on the router. However, (and this is important), the remote needs to be powered. It receives its power from the kemper through the ethernet socket normally so you have to find a way to add power to the cable that goes to the remote. This can be done via a POE (power over ethernet) injector (easily bought on amazon).

So, if you do it like this you will have 2 boxes (one router and one poe injector) which both need a power supply plugged in somewhere. You will then need a short cable to go from kemper to router, then another cable from router to poe injector and then a long cable from poe injector to the remote.

If you are like me then you will want to reduce the number of cables and power supplies that you have to lug around and this is where it gets interesting.

There are such things as routers that are powered by POE, so that has the potential to lose one power supply (because the router doesn't need a power supply if it's powered from the kemper from the ethernet cable). Many of these routers are designed for home networking where things are wired into small spaces so they are probably small enough to go in the back of the kemper.

There are also routers which will do POE 'pass through'. In other words it will take the power coming in from the kemper and then pass it on to the cable going out to the remote. The first issue is that the router needs 2 ethernet sockets. Many small wifi routers powered by POE do not, but a small number do.

However, then we get into the issues of how much power and how is it delivered. In this case, there are multiple standards of how this is done (802.3af, etc.) and I have not seen confirmation from kemper on what standard we need to follow (it says 'mode a' in the manual, but this is not quite enough information I believe). Supported are IEEE standard 802.3af-2003 as well as 802.3at-2009 mode A. There is also a lack of documentation from router companies about the detail of what they need coming and out of their power supplies.

In a perfect world, we could find a device which will be powered over POE and will pass-through POE to the remote. If this was the case, then legacy owners could buy one box, with no power supply and tuck it into the back of the kemper and have it all in one with no additional power supplies etc.

So coming back to the point of this thread. Please post the products (preferably with a web link) that you have found that we can try or research to be able to achieve this goal. I will shortly add some that I have found. Please don't clutter up the thread with comments such as 'I'm confused' or 'why not android' etc. those comments can go in plenty of other threads.

Display More

Thank you.

This solution took only minutes to set up and test, it works with the remote too.

The only issue I have is that the app sometimes disconnects frequently but I’m fairly sure there is a thread or comment within this thread with a suggestion to resolve this.

Unfortunately, my setup became plagued with random disconnects and I had to drop back to a lightning/ethernet adapter on the iPad and cabled connection. Recently I picked up a Stage and have had no disconnect issues.

Bit late to this, but very appreciative of all the info. I wanted to get this working as whenever I take my KPA to a jam session my settings always result in me not being heard for solos. Keeping crossing the floor without tripping over stuff to adjust was too frustrating. Now, apart from the setup of the network AP and switch, it will be very easy.

I got a TP-Link WR802N cheap off amazon and it works great in conjunction with the Netgear GS308P switch that I already had spare (bought for a CCTV setup that I'm still working on)

The WR802 gets power from any USB source (not tried the Kemper rack yet) and is plugged into the Switch. The Kemper rack is plugged into the switch as is the remote, but this has to be plugged into one of the PoE RJ45 sockets.

As per the instructions on here I set set up the WR802N using my PC and logging into the unit from a browser window (192.168.0.1). Quick Setup, choosing Access Point, followed by set static IP, under DHCP settings increase the 'Address Lease Time' to something sensible, I put 300 mins. Thats it, apart from a couple of reboots of the wifi AP.

Fired up my cheap Samsung A9+ tablet, connected to the TP-Link wr802 network (remember to change your password to something you will remember, you WILL lose the slip of paper that ships with the AP), fired up Rig manager and it worked straight away.

Triggering the stomp switches from the tablet requires a double tap on the screen, apart from that its easy. (looks like a bug to me as first tap says the stomp is diabled, but the second tap fires it up anyway and the light on the stomp switch on the remote changes to ON).

Welcome To The Family 😊

Quote from Thufir

Thank you.

This solution took only minutes to set up and test, it works with the remote too.

The only issue I have is that the app sometimes disconnects frequently but I’m fairly sure there is a thread or comment within this thread with a suggestion to resolve this.

This is the setting you need to alter for the TP-Link, other brands will likely have a similar setting.

I fought a long-running battle with disconnects when using an external access point with my Kemper Rack. It turned out to be an issue with power supply to the little portable router I used. It came with a wall-wart supply, but I didn't have room on the plug strip so I used USB charging outputs on that strip for power. I should have read the specs on the wall-wart. The AP requires a 3A supply and plug strip was rated at 2A. It was constantly resetting due to low voltage...

Working smoothly!

For those wondering, I am showing images about how it can be fit in the Kemper head. Temperatures are perfect and connections stable.

For now I am only using the home network router to test the setup. The next step is to add a second router or access point for an independent Kemper local network.

Thanks to everyone in this thread, specially Allenhuish for starting it and compiling all the tests!

Cheers!

TP-LINK TL-SG1005P (42€)

OPTIONAL ITEM: (recommended in this thread, those are needed if you'd like to power the TP_Link Switch with the same cable that powers the Kemper)

A power cable splitter (Splitter cable C14 Male to C13 Female (17€) + adaptor for the TP-Link Switch (C14 female to C5 male (5€)

Tried out the arrangement at a studio jam last night and it worked really well.

Only slight downside is about ½-1 second latency changing patches with the remote. Don't remember having that issue set up at home. Will have to investigate further.

For the future I want to minimize the hardware needed for the setup. Currently I have a 4 way extension, the 8 port switch, the switch power supply and the wifi access point all screwed to a wood board. Would like to make it a lot smaller. most of the space is taken up by the 4-way 240v extension and the switch and it's power supply.

So has anyone used a PoE passthrough 1 to 2 port switch/connector to utilize the PoE from the Kemper to connect the Acces Point and the remote to?