Fractal Axe Fx 3

    Quote from OneEng1

    The question I have to ask myself is "how quickly can I get a great tone". Sure, the mind-numbing amount of configuration on the Axe is unsurpassed, but how much time does it take to get to where you want to be?

    It depends on what you're looking for. There are times when I've had trouble finding an appropriate profile for a recording and was able to create something that was tailored to my needs in the Axe in a reasonable amount of time, by my standards anyway.

    Quote from OneEng1

    I suspect that I am like most of you. I grew up on tube amps and stomps. In my head, I think in terms of that setup. The KPA mimics this tried and true workflow which makes it easier for me to get it done with respect to good tone.

    In my opinion, Axe-Edit mimics the same workflow and brings a significant amount of versatility to the table.

    Quote from OneEng1

    It's all good.
    For me .... the Kemper is easier to get to what I want to sound like. YMMV. I am sure there are others who feel as you do that the deep editing on the Axe is a real necessity.

    "who feel as you do that the deep editing on the Axe is a real necessity"

    He never said that. It's really not a necessity some of the time.

    In fact, that's one area where the AxeFX/AX8 has really improved as of late: toss a Plexi amp and an Creamback IR on the grid and it sounds FAN-TAS-TIC with no edits whatsoever... depending on the guitar... depending on the sound you're going for.

    Unfortunately, it's not always this easy and tweaking the Axe is an acquired skill. There are plenty of guitarists through the years that have hated on Boogie because the Mark series isn't the most intuitive amp ever: tweaking the REAL amp is also an acquired skill.

    Owning a KPA again after using the AX8 extensively was a mental shift getting used to how the controls work on the KPA (post EQ) vs FAS ("like the real amp"): again, it's an acquired skill.

    In the end, it's about how you want to get where you want to go.

    Both the KPA and FAS units can go places the other can't.

    Quote from OneEng1

    I am sure there are others who feel as you do that the deep editing on the Axe is a real necessity.

    In my opinion, it can definitely be an asset at times, but if it were an absolute prerequisite (for me) I wouldn't own a Kemper. I think advanced controls are more fitting in the case of modelers, where rigs are built from scratch.

    Can you imagine getting a modeling guitar with knobs/settings such as:

    * fret noise knobs (volume and timber)
    * string manufacturer
    * cord impedance (Jimi Hendrix white coily cable preset!)
    * simulated magnitudes for pickup magnet strength (ie old 1950s to new)
    * pickup magnet alloy type selector
    * pickup wire width, number of wraps
    * activated pickups switch
    * single/double/P90 selector,
    * body wood density
    * toggle for set neck vs screwed neck
    * toggle for Rosewood vs Maple (or selector for Ebony, too)
    * toggle for Steel vs Nickel frets
    * shielded vs unshielded electronics compartment
    * settings for bumble bee vs orange drop vs etc
    * choice of "scratchy pots" (<--- patented technology)
    * linear vs logarithmic pots
    * different routings, i.e. separate volume vs master volume and separate tone controls
    * pickup selector dummy switch for the Pete Townshend trick
    * lacquer vs nitrocellulose vs hippie painted vs breathable unfinished wood coatings
    * 60 cycle hum control
    * FX pitch correction for tightly pressed sharp sounding notes, or incorrectly bent ones
    * reverse pot selector
    * dual post opening for whammy bar (in case you like it on top vs bottom)
    * toggle for brass vs nickel vs stainless steel bridge
    * locked string selection to mimic old Tele bridge intonation
    * knob for deadened Blues tone from old to new strings
    * toggle for old rusted string out-of-pitch warble
    * pickup height selector (with realistic warble for too-high setting)
    * sustain control to simulate floating vs hardtail (and to digitally go beyond to simulate Ebow

    (obviously, one can go on near indefinitely)

    When you asked for a preset for "Fender American" or "1959 Les Paul" guitars you are told "don't have those because owners of this type of guitar like to do their own thing."

    But seriously, with all the choices, how much playing time would people get in?
    Think of all the possible terrible combinations to it's infinite variety vs a boutique guitar that is ALL just suite spots?

    Ugh, tweeking! I don't know why some say the KPA is 'just like an amp' when it is not. Its a processor, like every other processor in the past. Oh, you have big front knobs like an amp, but that's it. its like every rack since the 80's: Little screen, lots of presets, lots of sub-screens & menus, lots of effects, guitar sounds, but also cabs, etc. The FAE is also the same thing, just more of it.

    The only rack I have had 'just like an amp' was in fact a real amp, an ENGL 580 rack and it's counter part, a stereo engl power amp. It had an even smaller window (just numbers) big dials, presets, midi, etc, etc, but no effects of course. But it was the real deal. It was extremely flexible.

    The real deal is limited compared to these new PROCESSORS giving us many more options, the only real diff from decades past is they do a much better job sounding great. There were many rack preamps that sounded cool on their own, but you had up to 200 or so options, NOT 1000+!!!

    I remember things like the Roland SDX-330... You had 4 buttons really, but every present was great sounding. No stupid video game effects and non-musical crap, just a simple box that does what it is supposed to easily, and all you had to do was nudge the few parameters this way or that way. That's it! Then you play! That is perfection, when the box does everything inside, you do very little outside to be inspired.

    When you start talking about 'tweeking' there is more than one:

    There is pain in the ass tweeking, such as a foot controller (unless connected to an editor) where you are on the floor pushing stomp buttons.

    There is old fashioned, move your rig to the center of the room so as to not bang your guitar into something, grab a chair, squint, hold the 1000 page manual, sit right in front of your rig like you are stuck to it 'I did it since the 80's' tweeking with a small screen, lots of menus, lots of time imagining or drawing out on paper a good idea for a layout, then trying to execute it on the wee little screen.

    There is EDITOR tweeking, where you keep your rig and stuff where ever you want it, sit comfortable in front of your BIG monitor and enjoy visually mapping our your setup.

    the REAL AMP tweeking is no more than 4 channels, maybe reverb built in, thats it. You walk up, have 9 or so knobs, a few switches, turn this, turn that, done. Period. If you have a setup with rack gear and a real amp, you are basically back to processor tweeking.

    Sure, you can get used to any processor if you use it enough and think it is easy. Hell, even the pita Eventide stuff you can get used to flying around the menus. But if you don't have to.... Why would you want to?

    Anyway, I like my Kemper. I almost hate any additional crap because it is getting closer to something like all the others. I hope there is a Kemper 2 with an editor, I'd buy that too. Maybe they could do something cool like maybe some diff color face plates not green. ;)

    I think all these new products from all the companies are great, keep they working hard to out do each other, I don't wave a flag for anyone I just use what will work best for me.

    If such a modeler were comparable to the Axe, the editor would simply include a drop-down menu with selectable models. Each model would include tweakable parameters(eg. those listed above). Models such as a "1959 Les Paul" or "Fender American" would be accessible and come pre-loaded with a set of parameters that correspond to the actual guitar much the way Axe FX models include a set of default parameters that correspond to the actual amp, however, like the Axe FX, the controls would simply afford users the ability to modify the model in ways that might otherwise be incredibly time consuming (or not possible at all) with the actual, physical guitar or a guitar modeler that didn't offer such versatility. Just because they're accessible certainly doesn't mean the end user has to tweak them. Personally, when it comes to modelers, I'd rather have advanced controls and not need them than need or want them and not have them.

    Edited 2 times, last by ColdFrixion (February 3, 2018 at 6:39 AM).

    Guys

    I just want to say I am enjoying this debate immensely.

    There are clearly differing opinions on how people approach modeling, profiling and amps and a preferred method of getting what you want in terms of ease of use and application to achieve the ideal sound.

    My personal experience:

    When I first started playing guitar I owned an H&H amp and a few pedals. As that amp didn't work out and sounded sterile, had a great reverb though, i purchased a Laney solid state and a 4x12 and then joined a band. This is back when I enjoyed playing and clearly from my gear didn't appreciate tone.

    As you can imagine from the first equipment I owned I hated the sound of guitar amps and cabs. I always found the sound to shrill and rather thin. I realised I don't want the sound of a guitar amp but the sound of a processed signal chain so I went though the years in bands with every Line6 product since the bean up to the X3 (I think that's it) and many iteration of the Boss multi effects (man that was some terrible amp modelling)

    I did this for many years and as a technical guy I was always tweaking but as I had never had a great amp to replicate I was just creating sounds I loved.

    Now I have written a few albums and EPs with this equipment that went nowhere but this was death metal and industrial music so the modelling kind of fitted but once I started writing hard rock music they just didn't produce a great sound.

    Then I bought a H&K Grandmeister and then I realised what tubes actually do to the sound. I recorded more music with that amp in a short space of time than I did with anything else. I used the time I was not tweaking to learn better production methods and also taught myself to sing. That time was far more musically developing than the 1000s and 1000s of hours wasted turning knobs and losing sleep over a particular sound on a particular song.

    Due to the Grandmeister not delivering what I wanted from an amp I bought a Jvm410h and found the sound I wanted and again set the channels, left them and worked on improving other areas of music and, most notably, because I wanted to play this amp all the time my playing improved dramatically.

    Now here is my point....... Sorry

    When I bought the Kemper I wanted to not have to carry the JVM and 4x12 up flights of stairs (in Liverpool a lot of practice places are in old buildings with spiral staircase cases and no lift/elevator). My natural worry was the amount of tweaking required if I want back to my past life of modeling.

    Now after buying the Kemper I found one thing, you are either a tweaker or you are not. When I owned the JVM I was swapping tubes, biasing the amp, looking at customising the amp and I also bought two so I had a spare so I could play around with stereo and tweak one without damaging my main rig.

    The Kemper I absolutely love and my core sounds are amazing but that doesn't mean I don't tweak, I don't tweak the Kemper at all outside of altering effects for a song but I am always looking at adding a Patchbay, integrating my vocal effects unit and better arranging my equipment.

    I personally think if you are a tweaker who finds that your compulsion is getting in the way of your creativity limit your exposure to the distraction unless you can control your compulsion as you will be a much better musician for it.

    If you are a guy who just wants a few great sounding tones then the world is your oyster and it's not about the 60000 parameters on a device its about sound quality.

    I think amps, the Kemper, Helix, Axe or any other remodelled has its place but tweaking for me is not about the device its about the individual.

    I control my compulsion by selling anything that takes me to long to tweak, if I have to spend time making something work its gone quickly and dealing with not having that product is much better and more productive than trying to get it to work.

    To me the device is not the distraction it's the personality of the individual.

    Keep the debate going I'm loving reading it.

    Mike

    Quote from Nemo13

    I guess you missed the forum topic heading: ‘Other Gear’. ;)

    This subforum is intended to be a place where Profiler users can exchange information about thinks like audio interfaces, DAW programs, microphones, monitor systems and so on devices that have a relation to the Profiler.
    Not too long ago I stopped a user from posting about new keyboards and synths here.

    Posting about a device like the Axe Fx isn't exactly against any rules, but IMO kinda pointless.
    If you want infos about the Axe, Fractal has it's own forum and there are other 'open' forums like TGP.

    Please remember that this is the Profiler User Forum.
    Thank you.

    Quote from db9091

    ....

    But seriously, with all the choices, how much playing time would people get in?
    Think of all the possible terrible combinations to it's infinite variety vs a boutique guitar that is ALL just suite spots?

    It's all about a very small group of Players who really like to endlessly tinker with everything and I used to be one of them. You do discover things along the way and the most important discovery for me was don't waste too much time tinkering if you want to be a guitar player. If you want to be an amp builder, that's a different stories. Spending time scrolling through endless possibilities of parameters is so counter productive for some one who wants to just play guitar.

    The Kemper taught me, like no other digital device and within a few weeks, to simply press the power button on, load my favorite profile and instantly start playing. The tweaking has gone to minimal.

    Imagine getting the AXE FX III expecting to do the same thing, no f-ing way That's not a realistic expectation, you will be spending hours and days just tinkering and tweaking and less actual playing which is not necessarily a bad bad thing because tinkering can be an enjoyable past time too.

    I'm not sure where I read that some specific individual in fractal works on making presets for Performing Artists because someone who performs generally doesn't want to spend time making presets. That is in contrast with what happens with Kemper performers where many big names just profile their own amps once and they're done.

    The way I personally view it is that simple and if I was a music store sales person, I would say it just like this
    " You want to spend more time playing guitar, you buy a Kemper, you want to spend more time tinkering and tweaking, you go for an AXE FX III or two".

    Edited once, last by Dean_R (February 3, 2018 at 2:20 PM).

    It's true you can edit deeply in the Kemper, no doubt. But with it's interface and huge library, I am more prone to putting time into finding a suitable profile for my chosen guitar, then use the Kemper as an Amp. Just messing with Volume and EQ. Often not EQ, just perhaps changing a few pedals around. Sometimes not even in the Kemper. So in that way, it FEELS like an amp to me, since I treat it simplistically.

    But as said, it's the individual that brings this compulsion to the table, I agree.

    And like they say about food, if you don't keep it in the kitchen, you can't eat it!

    Quote from Dean_R

    Imagine getting the AXE FX III expecting to do the same thing, no f-ing way That's not a realistic expectation, you will be spending hours and days just tinkering and tweaking and less actual playing which is not necessarily a bad bad thing because tinkering can be an enjoyable past time too.


    People get sidetracked by options, but that's a personal issue, not a hardware issue. You can spend a lot of time tweaking an Axe FX, but it's not necessary to create something that sounds great. After capturing the cab section, it took me about 2 minutes to dial in one of Guido's profiles. Once you've got a few good IR's, dialing stuff in can be a piece of cake. There's no need to try and reinvent the wheel every time you turn on an Axe FX.

    Quote from ColdFrixion

    People get sidetracked by options, but that's a personal issue, not a hardware issue. You can spend a lot of time tweaking an Axe FX, but it's not necessary to create something that sounds great. After capturing the cab section, it took me about 2 minutes to dial in one of Guido's profiles. Once you've got a few good IR's, dialing stuff in can be a piece of cake. There's no need to try and reinvent the wheel every time you turn an Axe FX on.

    This is true. Not hard to dial in a fun tone. My post was just poking fun. Heck, I own their products, I do know better, but there is a hint of truth to the ridiculous level of tweaking overkill available.

    As to posting that an FXIII exists, I do consider it fair game in Other Gear since people do use Fractal units in the LOOP section of their Kemper, like I do. If nothing else, it serves notice on upcoming cheaper older models if all you want are the effects. Not that I mind debate, as long as it's civil, which it is. Good group here!

    Quote from db9091

    there is a hint of truth to the ridiculous level of tweaking overkill available.

    Whether it's overkill is entirely dependent on who's twisting the knobs. To be fair, the Amp block defaults to the Basic tab which, as the name implies, contains all of the basic tone controls. Users are only presented with a litany of advanced parameters if and when they intentionally venture into the other tabs. Similarly, unless you know what you're doing, you probably shouldn't start tinkering with stuff under the hood of your car.

    Methinks there's more gravy than grave to your argument, but...

    I can take a piss out on each unit for where they go to the level of ridiculousness (tweak parameters in FX, and LED color coding/lighting in KPA) and still be a fanboy of both.
    I'm being tongue-in-cheek anyhow. No need to take me too seriously.

    But don't get me started on a 6x18 grid, yeow! Why not just connect to With Watson and play chess with it? Or heck, let Watson play the guitar for you. It's infinitely smarter! lol

    I was toying with the idea of trading away my Kemper again, this time for an Axe FX.

    Got cold feet in the end, lol


    So here I sit to face
    That same old fire place
    Gettin' ready for the same old explosion
    Goin' through my mind
    And soon enough time will tell,
    About the circus in the wishing well
    And someone who will buy and sell for me
    Someone to toll my bell
    And I continue
    To burn this old lamp
    Lord, alone
    Darlin' can't ya hear me callin' you?
    So lonely
    Gonna have to blow my mind
    Lonely

    Quote from DonPetersen

    This subforum is intended to be a place where Profiler users can exchange information about thinks like audio interfaces, DAW programs,

    Then I have used this sub forum correctly, since the AX3 is an interface to a computer:

    Axe Fx 3:

    The Center of your Music Workstation


    A 16-core, 500 MHz microcontroller provides 16 channels of flawless USB audio (8 in, 8 out) allowing the Axe-Fx III to be the center of your music workstation. The audiophile-grade signal path components and converters provide better audio performance than most dedicated USB audio interfaces.


    USB In (from Axe-Fx III to Computer)
    1+2: Output 1
    3+4: Output 2
    5+6: Input 1 (DI for reamping)
    7+8: Input 2 (for general use)


    USB Out (from computer to Axe-Fx III)
    1+2: Routed to physical Output 1 L+R
    3+4: Routed to physical Output 2 L+R
    5+6: Routed to the Grid via INPUT 1 block when its source is set to USB
    7+8: Routed to the Grid via the dedicated INPUT USB block

    The Kemper profiler can be used in conjunction with this also if desired.