Hi guys! I am a new Kemper owner. I am trying to use the harmonizer to get the sound of the Van Halen Balance period. Something similar to "The Seventh Seal" or "Baluchitherium". I was able to get that sound with an Eventide Pitchfactor on the H910/H949 setting but can't seem to approximate it with the Kemper. I am trying to downsize the number of pedals that I use in front of the Kemper. Thanks for any help/suggestions!
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Harmonizer Capable of Van Halen Balance Sounds?
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deakle1964 -
July 3, 2016 at 9:23 PM -
Thread is marked as Resolved.
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I'm also interested in this. I almost posted this exact question last night.
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In the RE there is a rig named "AL THEO SIMON" from paults using harmonics.
It is very inspiring to look how he used the harmonizing effect.
Of course the basic sound of the profile has to be adapted for the own needs. -
If you are asking about the type of Chorus sound that a Harmonizer can make (on the H910, this was done by setting the harmony to 1.01), the Detune effect is perfect for that sound.
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how about VH's earlier Soldano/Eventide sound?
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Hi I used for Baluchitherium cover a combination of Chorus+Phaser and it worked quite well.
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Try micro detune and these settings as a starting point:
Detune = 5.8 but try as high as 6.2 after that you really end up with an almost "out of tune" setting then you know you have gone too far.
Crossover = lowest setting should approximate the eventide units but if the tone is a little too modulated or muddy on the low end raise the level to around 100 Hz
Mix = to taste around 25% but no higher than 45% for more extreme effect. I'd stick around 30% for Balance.I may be wrong but I believe the micro detune effect doesn't increase the delay between the different voices the way you can on the eventide units where EVH's right or opposite side is detuned and delayed by say 10 or more ms.
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Try this:
Use a mid gain plexi sound and add:
Phaser in slot B or C
Parameters: Rate 1.06s, Depth 5,5, Manual 4,5, Feedback 0, Peak spread 0,0, Stages 4, Mix 49%, Ducking 0, Volume +0,8Hyper chorus in slot X. Parameters: Depth 5,8, Amount 3,0, Crossover 20,6Hz, Mix 78%, Ducking 0, Volume +0,8
And if you are on fw 4.0.5
Legacy delay To Tempo unboxed. Mix 45,1, Delay1 Time 420ms, Delay 2 Ratio 100%, feedback 23%bandwith 0,8, frequency -1,4, Modulation 1,3I think that nailes the "chorus balance period", you also can use a flanger in slot A-B-C or D buit the chorus has to be in slot X or in the mod slot after the amp.
Let me hear what you think. Maybe you have to change the mix parameter of the chorus a little. You can also add a reverb but for me a reverb and a delay is to much, but Eddie uses it in older titels like little dreamer. You get this sound without the chorus, just using the phaser and a delay and reverb.
Here is a link to a vid. Great for scraching the surface of Eddies sound
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Frank -
Sorry to take so long getting back to everyone. But I have been experimenting with all the suggestions! And all of them work great! I believe I like the micro detune the best, but that is just my ears. All of them are great though, and I ended up incorporating all of them into my rigs. I have an early Van Halen (Roth Period) and a later Van Halen (Van Hagar) setup. Eltzejupp - thanks for the video link, that was very helpful! Once again, this is without a doubt the most helpful forum I have ever been blessed to be a part of! I only hope that I can be of some help in the future. Thanks again for all the help!!!
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Hi, I would like to reopen this old post, because I used a lot the micro pitch for a sound like van halen in balance and I noticed that I loose A LOT of signal. I ended up using the vintage chorus, I know it is not the same, but if I put the detune in the x position the 5150 profile looses gain...If I put the detune before the amp the sound is a little flangy.
What do u think? Should I buy an eventide h9 for that sound? -
@evh5150it When you say it loses a lot of signal do you mean though phase cancellation as you get the mix level on the Micro Pitch up past 30% and especially around 40% to 50% you loose some perceived volume, perhaps weight and thickness and mid range crunch and grind? I think this is the best way I can describe what i think you are talking about? Also when you are using the Micro Pitch are you listening in stereo or summed to mono?
If I'm understanding this right I think I have a suggestion as I was suffering the exact same issue going for the exact same sound.
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Hi Liam, yes it's exactly as you described. I think van halen setup worked so good because of the dry signal in the middle. I cant't go over 30 percent with the mix, because the amp profile starts to loose something. I listen in stereo.
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@evh5150it Try this I'm home now so I can check my settings.
I figured this out using the same principles as if I was using two rack Eventide Harmonizers in a Wet Dry Wet setup.
You will need a newer firmware with the new delays to do this.
In Stomp X select:
- Quad Chromatic Delay
- Mix: Start at 85% and adjust to taste between this and 100%, I find about 90% seems to get in the "Balance" area
- Feedback: 0% (You only want the one repeat to simulate a guitar left and right)
- Low Cut: To get closest to the Eventide you can leave it right off at 20.6 as there would have been no filtering on the unit, I personally go for 65 Hz to clear the bottom end a touch
- High Cut: I'd aim for around 8000 Hz to simulate the early 80's bit rate/sample quality the original unit would have had
- Delay 1 Ratio: 0.0%
- Delay 2 Ratio: 0.0%
- Delay 3 Ratio: 48.9% (You want a slight offset to help lessen phase cancellation especially if playing in mono. I noticed some stereo panned delays in the old Lexicon PCM units had an offset of 48.9% so I go with this value, when you listen to a ping pong delay in mono you can here it clears up phasing issues lots)
- Delay 4 Time: I like 26ms therefore giving the other delay tap on the other side of the stereo field a timing of just below 13ms due to the 48.9% (26ms is a classic time offset from the dry signal used on old Roland SDE3000 units used by Joe Holmes in his wet dry wet rig to thicken tone, its was one of the preset timings as the unit only went up in increments and George Lynch in the studio was known to have a 0% feedback 26ms delay on his rhythms for the same reason according to Michael Wagener so if its good enough for them.....I have heard Eddie mention his is more like 6ms on the Eventide but also heard 10 and 12 and 13 in different interviews, go what you think sounds best, I think the higher the mix level the shorter you will have to bring the delay time down otherwise you will almost get a room sound happening which is not what you want here. Another tip if you like this by the end, try 56ms with 48.9% the other side on leads really adds some "air" around your notes, another 80's rack setup trick from back in the day)
- Pitch 1: 0
- Pitch 2: 0
- Pitch 3: 0
- Pitch 4: 0 (We want all of these at 0 as we don't want any semitone pitch adjustment we only want to use the detune later in the settings)
- Volume 1: 0.0
- Volume 2: 0.0
- Volume 3: 10.0 (We want this on 10.0 full as we will control the overall detune effect in relation to the dry signal with the mix level)
- Volume 4: 10.0 (Same here)
- Panorama 1: 0%
- Panorama 2: 0%
- Panorama 3: -100% (This pans the 13ms or 48.9% delay to the left)
- Panorama 4: +100% (This pans the 26ms or whatever you set the master delay to the left, this now gives you three voices, 1 left, 1 centre dry, one right)
- Stereo: 100% (we need this at 100% to make sure the previous panorama settings work as we set them in stereo)
- Modulation: 0.0 (A tip is to also try this at around 5 or 6 for a different type of stereo widening and modulation, but set the detune to 0.0 if you use this as you don't want both on the same time although there are no rules for as close as EVH as possible you want this off)
- Pitch Detune: Start at +2.8% and try down to +2.2% and up to around +3.2%. I feel at around +2.8% to +3.0 max gives you about 9 cent sharp or flat either side of the stereo field to closest approximate the Balance or F.U.C.K type micro pitch. This is the parameter that will give you the sound you are looking for I'm sure.
- The next settings, Formant Shift, Cross Feedback, Flutter Intensity and Flutter Rate leave turned off or on zero they aren't needed here.
I think this will get you what you look for as it sounds you have exactly the same issues I had. I find this to do the micro pitch detune effect much better than the actual effect in the Kemper. You have control over the phase cancelation due to being able to set you own detune delay times like a real Eventide harmonizer, which you can't in the official Kemper effect. I was told it was already adjusted perfectly and that delay time adjustment would be pointless. I think you'll find Kemper were wrong when you try this.
This way you can turn the effect up to 100% blend with lots of detune so much that it sounds horrible and way out of tune but it won't go thin and washy like the official effect even in mono, try it!
P.S. forgot to mention obviously try this with either headphones on or stereo monitors for the full real effect.
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Really great post, I look forward to trying it myself. I love the Balance sound. The leads on Don't Tell Me (What Love Can Do) are some of my favorite rock lead moments, period. So good.
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Hi Liam. Wow, this is great. I will try this evening but thank you for this mega feedback!!!!
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I would start at the default settings, they are close but I'd say as I mentioned maybe go a little higher to around 90% maybe even 100% if that is what you like on the mix and maybe, maybe increase the amount of pitch detune and that should be pretty much there.
I use these settings on my own bands sounds and I went through the same struggles at @evh5150it where in the end I decided to just go without the micro pitch as it was "sucking too much tone" even once I set the effect volume to match at unity with the rig when the detune was off.
This also works great after the hyper chorus to simulate the 80's rack dynatronics tri-chorus rack into the Eventide for detuning on LA style 80's clean chorused sounds.
Once you have the quad chromatic settings in as above give it a quick play through head phones or in stereo some way..........then turn the effect on and off and listen to the extra thickness and width it brings to your tone, makes it sound twice the size and its not just due to it being three guitars of the same performance on top of each other making it seem 6 db or whatever louder fooling you with 3 times the volume, the delay offsets and detune make it act as three separate guitars just like the original Eventide effect.
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Liam, incredible! This is the answer. I have tryed your settings and the sound is wonderful! Really a 3D sound like the Toronto Gig in 1995. With the 5150 new profiles of Britt it's almost perfect!! I still have to understand all the parameters of this kind of delay but the default settings you wrote above are great. And yes there's no signal loss, the tapped harmonics are clear. A lot better than micropitch effect.
Thank you verymuch, my wife will not see me in the next days...
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@evh5150it yes I'd say that gig is his greatest post Marshall tone live or studio. It's a benchmark for me. Glad you like the tips and it got you sorted.
Strangely any other delay even with the same parameters dialed in such as the dual chromatic delay doesn't work only the quad.
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Thanks for sharing this!
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Hi Liam when you say newer firmware do you mean 5.2.0 . I'm on 5.1.1.1285 and I can't find Quad chromatic delay in the new delays..
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