Unwanted " phaser " effect when recording and producing the kemper through stereo SPDIF

J-War · March 20, 2016 at 7:11 AM

Hello there,

I am getting a quite annoying and unwanted " phaser " or " flanger " effect when playing two takes i just recorded.
Each take is using a simple Peavey 5150 patch whith " crunch " type disto (no efx / reverb / delay) and each take has been panned 50%L and 50R.

As recording through SPDIF gives me a stereo wave for each take, i was wondering if it could be the cause ?
For example, In my mix at the same time i have the rythm guitars 100% L/R and lead guitars 50 % L/R. Could it be a problem to record in stereo 2 takes of a same riff or lead and pan these 2 stereo takes ?
Actualy, if iam not mistaken even if each take comes in stereo signal, both sides of the wave are identical.

Help needed please.
Thanks in advance.

DonPetersen · March 20, 2016 at 8:40 AM

are you recording in 44.1kHz and is the lock/sync set to external/SPDIF?

are you reamping or recording multiple takes?

Dragonsf · March 20, 2016 at 9:07 AM

Maybe the noise gate level is to high.

J-War · March 20, 2016 at 9:09 AM

Indeed i am using 44.1 and sync is set to external spdif.
No reamp used
Kemper Noise gate = 5

So in your opinion, no problems with panning multiple stereo takes ?

DonPetersen · March 20, 2016 at 9:21 AM

if they are without any post STACK processing, they should be dual mono anyway.

can you post an example of what you are experiencing?
does this also occur when you leave the pan of the takes in the middle?

J-War · March 20, 2016 at 9:35 AM

How do i know if there's any " post stack " processing ? (You mean reverb / delay etc ?)

I will upload a sample in few minutes.

J-War · March 20, 2016 at 9:47 AM

Here are the links (9mb each) :

the two takes set to 50%L 50%R : http://mp3.jwar.fr/test150L50R.wav
the two takes set to center : http://mp3.jwar.fr/test2center.wav

viabcroce · March 20, 2016 at 11:06 PM

Quote from J-War

How do i know if there's any " post stack " processing ? (You mean reverb / delay etc ?)

yep, the four "Effect" slots

nightlight · March 25, 2016 at 7:31 AM

this could just be a difference in the way the two takes were recorded, I.e. one take may be played a little slower or faster than the other. do look into that.

Another option could be to enable constant latency in the output section. That may help with thenphasing issues.

J-War · March 25, 2016 at 9:02 AM

Are you sure ? They say " constant latency " is only to be used for REAMPING, as it sets the latency to the highest (slowest) value. Thus not being suitable for " live " recordings.

But i assume you tested it and it works just well for live recording as well ?

Thanks for the tips.

viabcroce · March 25, 2016 at 10:10 PM

Well, I can't be certain nighlight's suggestion is related to the issue, but constant latency chooses the latency of the rig gifted with... the highest latency, not some very high latency out of the blue.
IOW, if you are comfortable with laying that certain rig, you will experience no issues.
This rig might as well not be in your collection, it's probably defined as a rig where all the highest-latency fx and all the filters are used, or something along this line.

Personally, I've never perceived latency, not even with the CLR. But a friend of mine who tried my Profiler clearly felt a difference when switching from his combo to a CLR.
So it's also a matter of specific sensitivity I'd say.

MentaL · March 25, 2016 at 10:16 PM

Quote from J-War

Here are the links (9mb each) :

the two takes set to 50%L 50%R : http://mp3.jwar.fr/test150L50R.wav
the two takes set to center : http://mp3.jwar.fr/test2center.wav

wouldn't happen to have any buttons enabled by any chnace? look for X / MD / Delay / Reverb and disable.

J-War · March 25, 2016 at 11:29 PM

Quote from viabcroce

Well, I can't be certain nighlight's suggestion is related to the issue, but constant latency chooses the latency of the rig gifted with... the highest latency, not some very high latency out of the blue.
IOW, if you are comfortable with laying that certain rig, you will experience no issues.
This rig might as well not be in your collection, it's probably defined as a rig where all the highest-latency fx and all the filters are used, or something along this line.

Personally, I've never perceived latency, not even with the CLR. But a friend of mine who tried my Profiler clearly felt a difference when switching from his combo to a CLR.
So it's also a matter of specific sensitivity I'd say.

Quote from http://www.wikpa.org/Latency :

" Although the default latency is variable, you can expect it to be
around 3ms.
Kemper decided to provide a hidden setting starting with firmware 1.6.0 public
beta to make the latency a little higher but constant. This constant
latency would be 4.9ms. "

Quote

wouldn't happen to have any buttons enabled by any chnace? look for X / MD / Delay / Reverb and disable.

Nope, everything's disabled

viabcroce · March 26, 2016 at 3:48 AM

Yep, as I said, you'll experience a latency higher than average. Not all the rigs have the same latency.
Whether you perceive it or not is also a matter of individual sensitivity.

J-War · March 26, 2016 at 10:45 AM

We gave it a try yesterday and we weren't able to perceive any difference when playing with or without constant latency.

nightlight · March 27, 2016 at 11:20 AM

I've been able to do multiple recordings of my guitar in a project with the Kemper, without any phasing or flanger issues, so I'm not sure what the issue could be. Could you check the waveform of your recordings? Do they roughly coincide? Or is one track slightly shifted compared to the other? Could your interface be introducing some latency that is causing th le recording to sound like a flanger or phaser?
one more thing? Are there any EQs or Fx enabled in your DAW? Might want to check those, especially if there are extreme settings.

J-War · March 27, 2016 at 12:55 PM

I realize my previous post wasn't clear at all

In fact, the constant latency helped reducing the phasing problem.
We didn't perceive any noticeable latency while playing the guitare while constant latency was enabled !

Sorry for the confusion and many thanks to everyone for the valuable help.

nightlight · March 29, 2016 at 12:18 PM

Excellent!