Atomic CLR loudness and clipping ("Solved!")

Quote from JayMitchell

Nor should you ever use any speaker on the floor aimed horizontally (IOW, the backline position) "as a PA speaker." For the sake of your audience, I hope you aren't doing that....

I only mentioned that because full range music really shows the difference with the CLR in wedge and back line orientation, not so much with just a guitar signal. Thought perhaps orientation might relate to the poster's problem. Most of the photos of CLR wedges in action are in backline position with a head on top.

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Maybe I got a lemon.

Quote from JayMitchell

No. You apparently do not understand the purposes and proper uses of the built-in presets, however.

Yeah, the three-way switch was just too much to comprehend. (humor intended)

Just to be clear, I enjoy my CLR and it's going nowhere. My Kemper sounds the most guitar friendly through it than anything else I've tried. I still think some reviews were a little over-the-top hype, as they can be on forums, as people love to love their stuff.

Now if I could just figure out that switch...

Quote from Atomic_Amps

The CLR specs are not hyped they are accurate (regardless of what other manufacturers may or may not be doing). When we say the CLR can do 120dB continuous / 130dB peak, that is based on conservative ratings using professional measurement techniques and test equipment.

Hi Tom, welcome here

Quote from ur2funky

I only mentioned that because full range music really shows the difference with the CLR in wedge and back line orientation,

No speaker can reproduce music accurately when placed in a backline position.

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Most of the photos of CLR wedges in action are in backline position with a head on top.

That is the worst possible way to use any speaker, including a guitar cab. I know it is common practice, but it is a fact that not all habits are good ones. This is one of the worst habits possible....

Quote from JayMitchell

...

That is the worst possible way to use any speaker, including a guitar cab. I know it is common practice, but it is a fact that not all habits are good ones. This is one of the worst habits possible....

So if you're going to use the CLR as your "guitar cab" (i.e., backline) what in your opinion is the best way to set it up (excluding putting it on a pole)? I've been using mine elevated about 18" off the ground and that seems to work pretty well.

Hey Tom!
Great to see you here! Thanks for posting about the input clip light, funny we spoke about this very thing today. This is important info for all CLR users. I'm still loving my wedges!
Regards,
Mark Scola

Quote from Brick_top

Are you sure you can crank the the output to the max?

I'm not burningyen, but I've been rumored to know just a bit about how the CLR works. Here's the correct answer:

Not only can you turn up the Master level all the way, you must turn it up all the way in order to get full power from the speaker.

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When you say you can crank it to max and not clip the CLR

You cannot clip the CLR's power amps. The internal protection measures I designed into it prevent that from ever occurring. The red LED next to the Master level is not a clip indicator. If you will reread the manual, you will realize that the word "clip" does not appear in the section that describes its function.

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maybe trying to revise some of my presets.

There is no need for that. You need to turn up the CLR Master level until it is loud enough. Disregard the output LED. You can trust me on that. Really.

Hopefully this digression from relevant topics can be put to rest now. The Atomic CLR will operate continuously and cleanly at an SPL of 120dB. If you insist on routinely using its maximum acoustic output, you will cause permanent hearing damage to yourself and to anyone listening nearby. And then it won't matter how much detail it reveals, because you will have lost all ability to hear it.

Quote from VCuomo

So if you're going to use the CLR as your "guitar cab" (i.e., backline) what in your opinion is the best way to set it up

Are you setting it up for you to hear, or for your audience to hear? That makes a difference.

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(excluding putting it on a pole)?

If you want to cover an audience from your backline, elevating the speaker (any speaker, including a guitar cab) to above your ear level will always be best. Any lower, and there will be people and objects between the speaker and some or all of the intended listeners.

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I've been using mine elevated about 18" off the ground and that seems to work pretty well.

If you are interested primarily in covering yourself from behind, the best way to do this is to aim the speaker (again, any speaker, not just a CLR) upward so that it is pointing at your ears when you're in playing position. If you've elevated the speaker by a foot or more, use the "FF" setting. If it's on or less than a foot above the floor (but aimed upward), the "Tilt" setting will produce the flattest response.

If you want to cover the audience but won't elevate the speaker above ear level, then tilting it upward as above to place your ears on axis is the best compromise. You'll hear the on-axis response, and your audience will be within the coverage pattern of the speaker.

Quote from Brick_top

Are you sure you can crank the the output to the max? Have you tried doing that? Maybe your presets/rigs are very different from mine?

Looks like Jay answered your 1st question. No, I haven't tried cranking the output to the max because my CLR is so loud with the output at ~2:00 that I couldn't imagine cranking it any higher without wearing earplugs. Note that I have mine in wedge position right in front of me. As for my rigs, they range anywhere from pristine clean (no amp or cab sims, even) to Big Muff+Hiwatt Gilmouresque tones. Occasionally I'll crank up a Golub Marshall or the BrunoToni profile. My KPA stack volume is generally at noon and my KPA output volume is generally at 8.0.

Another satisfied customer!

Quote from Brick_top

Does this mean that what I put in will be reproduced correctly with the master all the way up assuming I have the input correctly setup?

Asked and answered. My prior remarks in this thread make that perfectly clear.

For reasons I cannot fathom, you're trying to make this a whole lot more difficult than it is. If the CLR isn't loud enough with the Master level set to a position below maximum, then turn it up. That's why it's there. There is no way you will ever get full output from a CLR if you don't max out the Master level. If it's already maxed out, you can't get any louder. I don't know how to make this any simpler.

Jay, do you still recommend we use the LED to set the input level?

Quote from burningyen

Jay, do you still recommend we use the LED to set the input level?

Definitely. The input LEDs do indicate clipping and should be set per the manual. All the information anyone needs to correctly operate a CLR is in the manual, BTW. If you check, you will see the following:

1. Instructions for gain staging relate to the input LEDs.

2. The word "clip" does not appear in the section describing the function of the output LED.

3. There is no warning not to cause the output LED to illuminate. That's because there is no risk from doing so.

If your CLR isn't getting loud enough for you, and you haven't maxed out the Master level, then you haven't gotten full power from it.

Please send them both to me! I want them and will give you a good price.
Thanks,

Lance

How I feel sometimes.

Quote from JayMitchell

Are you setting it up for you to hear, or for your audience to hear? That makes a difference.

If you want to cover an audience from your backline, elevating the speaker (any speaker, including a guitar cab) to above your ear level will always be best. Any lower, and there will be people and objects between the speaker and some or all of the intended listeners.

If you are interested primarily in covering yourself from behind, the best way to do this is to aim the speaker (again, any speaker, not just a CLR) upward so that it is pointing at your ears when you're in playing position. If you've elevated the speaker by a foot or more, use the "FF" setting. If it's on or less than a foot above the floor (but aimed upward), the "Tilt" setting will produce the flattest response.

If you want to cover the audience but won't elevate the speaker above ear level, then tilting it upward as above to place your ears on axis is the best compromise. You'll hear the on-axis response, and your audience will be within the coverage pattern of the speaker.

In my case, since I'm using the CLR as my backline amp/cab, I need to be able to make sure the audience is covered as optimally as possible, but I also need to be able to hear it reasonably well (but, obviously, the audience's listening experience is first priority and mine is second).

I've been using the CLR elevated by about 18" (but it is not tilted upward) and using the FF setting - that seemed to work best from my experimentation, as you stated it should.

Thanks for the help Jay!

Quote from Atomic_Amps

Hi Brick_top,

I think some of the confusion here is based on the perception that the Speaker Limit Indicator is a clip light. It is not. It is a signal that you are approaching the operating threshold of the speaker. There is at least 6dB more SPL in the CLR when you start to light it. The setting for it is too conservative. In hindsight we shouldn't have included it at all. We're considering getting rid of it in future production to avoid this type of confusion. Ultimately, it has no real purpose because there are other protective mechanisms that will prevent the speaker from being damaged. The moral of the story is to disregard the Speaker Limit Indicator and use your ears.

I find it very strange to hear people say the CLR is not loud. Most customers say it can be dangerously loud. The CLR specs are not hyped they are accurate (regardless of what other manufacturers may or may not be doing). When we say the CLR can do 120dB continuous / 130dB peak, that is based on conservative ratings using professional measurement techniques and test equipment. That's how loud it is for better or worse.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Tom King
President
Atomic Amplifiers

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Hello Tom, nice to see you are still checking in. By the way I still love the Neo version. Paul S