I think Spain might have a bit too much for Italy tonight...but, Italy have the spirit & confidence to win this one.
It's going to be a great game, may the best country win.
Actually, South Africa's the best country, what I meant was, may the best soccer country win.
+1000
Let's watch some good football tonight and may the best team win! 
Well... Looks like the best team (by far....) has won. Congrats to all Spanish fellows here! 
Thanks!
It's not accidental that the best Spanish football team coincide in time with the best Barça (FC Barcelona).
Actually, the first three assists of the game were made by Cesc and Xavi (2), both Catalan and both Barça players (as many others in Spain).
Congrats Spain!
Clearly the most awesome team ever... unbeatable! 
Gongratulations to Spain!!! what a fine team! Such a good and authentic football playing 
Kudos to Italy too, they had a good Euro and deserved a better final score
Dear all,
schneidas wrote:
Congrats Spain! Clearly the most awesome team ever... unbeatable!
Some comments here are really hard to bear.
Neither Spain is so unbeatable nor Italy is a disaster team. Germany is neither divine against Greece nor pathetic against Italy.
I admit that Spain was absolutely furious against Italy in the final, but the 4-0 does not at all reflect the level of the squads correctly.
Throughout the tournament Spain was mediocre, lucky (e.g. against Portugal and in the first game against Italy) and I find their tiki-taka-style extremely boring. It reminds me of handball.
To be honest: there has been no really shining team in the whole tournament.
And to say that the Spanish squad is the best team ever makes me laugh. Legendary or at least convincing squads are in my book:
And the Spanish squad of 2010 and 2012 is not.
But this might be a matter of personal opinion 
Best regards
DrTT
But this might be a matter of personal opinion
This is the most important (and only valid) point of your post!
I'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, as our perception of quality obviously differs greatly...
Dear all,
Quote from schneidasThis is the most important (and only valid) point of your post!
I don't wanna start a personal vendetta. But there is no smiley here, hence I find that statement about invalidity of my arguments very rude! Obviously you think you're a certified football expert, don't you?
Quote from schneidasI'm not going to comment on the rest of your post, as our perception of quality obviously differs greatly...
Maybe. Unfortunately you did not give any facts to substantiate your opinion, whereas it is easy to back up mine. Well, let me take the World Cup 2010 as an example:
So altogether Spain scored 8 goals in 7 games, Germany did this in two. And e.g. Germany's match against Argentina has been coined by the international press as a "massacre" and "the best first six minutes the world has ever seen" while the match against Paraguay was considered "a bad play" even by coach Del Bosque.
Sorry, of course, Paraguay was (at that time) FIFA ranked #31 and Argentina was only #7, so this easily explains the difference.
Very convincing total domination by Spain throughout the WC tournament. Has there even been a single interesting game by the Spanish in the complete tournament?
But sometimes arguments are hopeless against fuzzy sentiments.
Best regards
DrTT
...worse than an Axe vs. KPA thread...we where all having fun and talking BS in this thread, till now. Like in a friendly pub...can we go back to that mood, please? We are all too busy with music and Kemper to waste time with Soccer (specially now that the Euro2012 is finish).
...worse than an Axe vs. KPA thread...we where all having fun and talking BS in this thread, till now. Like in a friendly pub...can we go back to that mood, please? We are all too busy with music and Kemper to waste time with Soccer (specially now that the Euro2012 is finish).
+100000
Ok, here we go!
I don't wanna start a personal vendetta. But there is no smiley here, hence I find that statement about invalidity of my arguments very rude!
I was just replying as you obviously targeted an entire post at me. There's no rudeness intended in what I said. I was merely stating a fact.
Btw, there was no smiley in your initial post - so what? Does this qualify you as rude? By your definition: yes!
Here's two examples of someone that could interpret you being rude:
to say that the Spanish squad is the best team ever makes me laugh
arguments are hopeless against fuzzy sentiments
You could have just objectively stated that you have a different opinion, and you would have gotten a smiley and a good intention - and your explanation of why I said what I said.
Ok, now that you set the tone of our discussion, let me answer every point that I feel needs a reply.
Neither Spain is so unbeatable nor Italy is a disaster team. Germany is neither divine against Greece nor pathetic against Italy.
A. No one said this
B. You base your point on what? Your expert knowledge? You are expressing your "expert" opinion and that is fine. So was I and everyone else on this thread.
Spain was absolutely furious against Italy in the final, but the 4-0 does not at all reflect the level of the squads correctly.
I disagree. Spain showed a level of dominance and technique in yesterday's game previously unseen. But we can agree to disagree.
Throughout the tournament Spain was mediocre, lucky (e.g. against Portugal and in the first game against Italy)
True and agreed.
and I find their tiki-taka-style extremely boring.
It reminds me of handball.
You find it boring? So what?
And to say that the Spanish squad is the best team ever makes me laugh.
So our sense of humor is totally different... And why should I care about that?
Legendary or at least convincing squads are in my book:
Let me know when your book gets published, as I will definitely be buying it.
The teams you are listing next are valid. Although again your opinion is debatable.
And the Spanish squad of 2010 and 2012 is not.
But this might be a matter of personal opinion
Exactly. *Your* personal opinion. Why are we even having this conversation?
Obviously you think you're a certified football expert, don't you?
No, not at all. Never said anything like this. You seem to imply something just because someone disagreed with you.
Unfortunately you did not give any facts to substantiate your opinion, whereas it is easy to back up mine.
I don't feel the need to discuss this with you as quite frankly, I don't care what you think.
Also, you don't need to back up your opinion, as I don't care for it.
That being said, take any of the teams you mentioned and let them play against yesterday's Spain. I bet Spain would hold up or even win. But the discussion is pointless.
I agree, that Spain was less than exciting and even had a lot of dull moments throughout the tournament. But yesterday they really showed class, talent and IMO their place in the best teams of the world. If you didn't see the quality of their game yesterday - then that's fine with me.
Has there even been a single interesting game by the Spanish in the complete tournament?
Maybe not to you. I'm not going to loose sleep over it.
But sometimes arguments are hopeless against fuzzy sentiments.
And you say I'm being rude?
Bottom line... we disagree.
End of discussion
Dear all, dear schneidas,
sorry, this seems to get out of hand. I have no problem with your opinion that "Spain 2012 is the best team ever". But I am picky when you qualify my opinion as "invalid".
Nevertheless let me answer your statements where we disagree most. Maybe just for the entertainment of the others
Quote from schneidasI was just replying as you obviously targeted an entire post at me. There's no rudeness intended in what I said. I was merely stating a fact.
What "fact"? That the current Spanish team is the "most awesome team ever" or "unbeatable"?
Quote from schneidasBtw, there was no smiley in your initial post - so what? Does this qualify you as rude? By your definition: yes!
As far as I can tell there has been a smiley (where I stated that it might be a matter of personal opinion). So this should cover your requirement. And it also has signalled that I'm pissed but understand that there are different perspectives.
Quote from schneidasHere's two examples of someone that could interpret you being rude:
Both correct observations. I personally would qualify that as "sarcastic" I'm a little disgusted by the hype on the Spanish team of 2012 considering the Euro tournament in total. I certainly applaud Spain for winning the championship, but I completely repudiate that they are "lightyears ahead" or "best ever".
Quote from schneidasNo one said this
You did, "Clearly the most awesome team ever... unbeatable!". My point is that games of teams on this level are quite close and very often the physical fitness or plain luck decides those games. When Spain had lost in the penalties against Portugal would you still qualify them as the "most awesome team ever"?
Quote from schneidasLet me know when your book gets published, as I will definitely be buying it.
So provide some input!
Quote from schneidasThe teams you are listing next are valid. Although again your opinion is debatable.
No problem with that, schneidas! As you can see I like controversies. But you didn't debate; you just stated that everything I said is invalid except that I said to have a different opinion.
Quote from schneidasExactly. *Your* personal opinion. Why are we even having this conversation?
Because a forum is for discussing different opinions and maybe learn something from it. And not qualifying other opinions as "invalid". And you tell me that you do not care about my opinion, but then why are you presenting yours initially? Should I care or not?
Quote from schneidasThat being said, take any of the teams you mentioned and let them play against yesterday's Spain. I bet Spain would hold up or even win. But the discussion is pointless.
You're right. It is impossible to compare the playing styles of different decades. For example the technical expertise of the Puzcas or Pele team was amazing, their athleticism was low compared to now.
Quote from schneidasMaybe not to you. I'm not going to loose sleep over it.
I was talking about the 2010 World Cup. But here we also disagree, fine.
A lost chance of finding out the fundaments of our opinions.
Best regards
DrTT
Ok, I read what you wrote. We still don't agree (and that's the beauty of it).
I'll be honest, if you wish, I can go through every point of your most recent post with the quotes and all again but I find it really tiresome. But note, that you have misinterpreted some of my points. If you wish I will answer in detail tomorrow (right now I'm too tired).
But I don't really like ending a thread in negativity. So let's just be clear on a few things:
All I meant was: yesterday's Spain (and do note the "yesterday") to me had all the class, talent, hunger, glory and quality of every other team you mentioned. That's why I said "clearly the most awesome team ever" in my initial post.
I still think so. You may disagree (I allow it! 
).
Normally, I wouldn't even bother answering a guy with a different opinion, but you targeted your post at me and the "makes me laugh" comment took it to the next level. So I guess this took off from there.
I don't follow the Spain hype. My heart in this Euro was obviously with Greece first, Italy second - but I applaud quality, when I see it.
Anyway, that's all I really have to say about it. It is a sports thread - so things can get rough.
In the end, I'm all for friendly and fair.
So let's just disagree for tonight.
Dear schneidas,
thanks for your prompt answer! No need to extend this to a lengthy debate. Sorry for the rude comment about "Spain as the best team ever makes me laugh".
I am not too much into qualifying a team by just one match. This is what I meant with "Germany is neither divine nor pathetic" and "Spain is neither unbeatable nor Italy is a disaster".
Let's see how it all works out in the next years.
And now let's move on to our Kemper (or to sleep ). Whatever you prefer...
Best regards and Peace
DrTT
Hahahahaha! Good one Joachim! LOL!
I was talking about the 2010 World Cup. But here we also disagree, fine.
But, they didn't use a soccer ball in the 2010 World Cup, they used a balloon. 
I was at a few Spanish games during the World Cup, I've been watching soccer for 40 years, never seen anything like the way the Spanish play...their skill level is off the chart brilliant.
