OK Testing FW 3.0! [How Kemper works? All amps sound similar]?

The recommended procedure, I believe, is:

1) Make a direct amp profile
2) WITHOUT changing anything on the amp or anywhere else, make a regular studio profile
3) Copy/paste the studio profile cab onto the direct amp profile (and I do believe copy/paste rather than browsing is the correct way!)
4) Hit the merge button
5) Store the profile

This profile you have just stored is a merged profile; which means the cabinet portion of this is now a "perfect representation" of the cab+mic. Merging affects the CAB PORTION ONLY, to my knowledge.

You can throw this new cab on any di profile (but DO NOT merge them; that process has already been applied to the cab), and the result SHOULD be authentic. Bear in mind that the parameters in the profile which describes amp/cab interaction is NOT authentic to this new pairing, as that information is stored in the amp part of the profile, and does not change; how big a difference this makes I don't know.

Quote from Michael_dk

The recommended procedure, I believe, is:

1) Make a direct amp profile
2) WITHOUT changing anything on the amp or anywhere else, make a regular studio profile
3) Copy/paste the studio profile cab onto the direct amp profile (and I do believe copy/paste rather than browsing is the correct way!)
4) Hit the merge button
5) Store the profile

This profile you have just stored is a merged profile; which means the cabinet portion of this is now a "perfect representation" of the cab+mic. Merging affects the CAB PORTION ONLY, to my knowledge.

You can throw this new cab on any di profile (but DO NOT merge them; that process has already been applied to the cab), and the result SHOULD be authentic. Bear in mind that the parameters in the profile which describes amp/cab interaction is NOT authentic to this new pairing, as that information is stored in the amp part of the profile, and does not change; how big a difference this makes I don't know.

Substitute DI for DA (Direct Amp) profile and you got it down, min danske ven!

Quote from Michael_dk

You can throw this new cab on any di profile (but DO NOT merge them; that process has already been applied to the cab), and the result SHOULD be authentic.

Why not merging them? Because the interaction information of this cab belongs to another amp? But as you say below this interaction information is stored in the amp part of the profile, so cab part is "clean"! So does not make sense why not merging them!

Quote from Michael_dk

Bear in mind that the parameters in the profile which describes amp/cab interaction is NOT authentic to this new pairing, as that information is stored in the amp part of the profile, and does not change; how big a difference this makes I don't know.

This has to be clarified from ckemper.

Quote from metalmike

Why not merging them? Because the interaction information of this cab belongs to another amp? But as you say below this interaction information is stored in the amp part of the profile, so cab part is "clean"! So does not make sense why not merging them!

Merging is the process of adding the Direct Amp profile to the Studio profile of the same profiled amplifier, which also separates the Cab from the Amp more authentically. An extra step while profiling, if you like. In a live situation, this enables you to send the Studio profile to FOH, yet send the DA profile to a regular guitar cab and get a more authentic sound on stage. Adding a previously separated Cab to a DA profile creates a new hybrid Studio profile, but checking the Cabs off on Monitor out option in the Output menu would send the pure DA profile out to your guitar cab, yet the hybrid Studio profile out to FOH. No need to merge. In fact, merging would make the KPA try to separate the Cab portion an extra time, creating an inaccurate profile and changing the sound.

EDIT : I guess the rule of thumb should be to only merge if it's you that made the profile!

Quote from sambrox

Merging is the process of adding the Direct Amp profile to the Studio profile of the same profiled amplifier, which also separates the Cab from the Amp more authentically. An extra step while profiling, if you like. In a live situation, this enables you to send the Studio profile to FOH, yet send the DA profile to a regular guitar cab and get a more authentic sound on stage. Adding a previously separated Cab to a DA profile creates a new hybrid Studio profile, but checking the Cabs off on Monitor out option in the Output menu would send the pure DA profile out to your guitar cab, yet the hybrid Studio profile out to FOH. No need to merge. In fact, merging would make the KPA try to separate the Cab portion an extra time, creating an inaccurate profile and changing the sound.

EDIT : I guess the rule of thumb should be to only merge if it's you that made the profile!

You made it clear, what i said had no sense We just need to know how important and what difference these interactions between amp and cab make, if we use another cab than the one that has been used for profiling!

Quote from metalmike

You made it clear, what i said had no sense We just need to know how important and what difference these interactions between amp and cab make, if we use another cab than the one that has been used for profiling!

Just try it and see if you notice anything untoward. If it sounds good - it IS good

Quote from Michael_dk

The recommended procedure, I believe, is:

1) Make a direct amp profile
2) WITHOUT changing anything on the amp or anywhere else, make a regular studio profile

Here's something I wondered about... What about the DI box? Should we remove it from the chain after the DA profile, and before the Studio profile? Or just leave it in the chain for both profiles? Could removing it from the chain affect the sound of the studio profile? It probably shouldn't, but what do you guys do with it?

Quote from GOlson

Here's something I wondered about... What about the DI box? Should we remove it from the chain after the DA profile, and before the Studio profile? Or just leave it in the chain for both profiles? Could removing it from the chain affect the sound of the studio profile? It probably shouldn't, but what do you guys do with it?

From technical point of view the impedance of the opamp or transformator in dibox schould not have any influence to the output Cab signal because input impedance of opamp or trafo is a much larger then 4;8;16 Ohm speaker. So if you don't remove DIBox in studio profile session you can get 0,01% better results. Of course it depends of the di-box by itself.

Quote from GOlson

Here's something I wondered about... What about the DI box? Should we remove it from the chain after the DA profile, and before the Studio profile? Or just leave it in the chain for both profiles? Could removing it from the chain affect the sound of the studio profile? It probably shouldn't, but what do you guys do with it?

If you have it in the chain while dialing in your tone before profiling, then you know what you're getting

I spent some time early this morning while my ears were fresh to try a few things. First let me explain that I planned on using the new DA profile feature to enable me to profile all of my amps direct and then have the ability to add an already good cabinet profile to them. This is not what this new DA feature was designed to do, but it should be able to do it. I compared 3 profiles I had of higher gain amps. I had the direct profiles saved so I was comparing 3 profiles with cabinets added and merged to three profiles with cabinets added and not merged. The merged profiled sounded fuller, better, but similar, the other three unmerged sounded more distinctive, but less full, weaker.

The bottom line for me seemed to be that merging a cabinet into a direct profile can give you some good sounds but with certain cabinets its going to make all of the profiles sound similar. I'm not sure if that is what the intent of this thread is all about or not. What makes this more difficult is there is no way to know if a profile was a studio profile or a DA profile with a cabinet added and/or merged.

My new mics came in so I am going back to full profiles for a while.

Don't forget : you should only be merging DA profiles with the Studio profile of the same amp with the exact same settings. Adding the Cab of a Merged profile (thus 'perfectly' separated from the amp portion) to a DA profile doesn't require the use of the merge button.

Ok I'm new to kemper. I've got Mesa rec-Jvm -5150 iii-Mesa V all incredible tube amps. I run my kemper to a ISP Stealth then to a Mesa 4x12. All of my Amps have there own footprint in tone-very different. I have never profiled these amps because I just got kemper. I did buy tonehammers and sin mix profiles . I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or if the kemper is not for me but ALL of the high gain profiles are pretty much the same tone and feel. Pretty bummed out. A Jvm sounds nothing like a Mark series amp , but in kemper world mode it does

you need DI profiles of the JVM...maybe try the free DI/Merged ones from Till schleicher!

i got you're diesel profile and Mesa rec profile, they sound really close to each other. They are completely different amps. Not sure what the deal is.

The VH4 is not far from a Dual rectifier in gainstructure when we talk about Highgain on the same cab but you should recognize that the lowend is different for example.
That typical Diezel Lowend..especially on the unboosted VH4 ones compared to the Dual Rectifier. A Marshall will sound way different off course

Edit: I sended you via email our Marshall DSL100 for free to try

Quote from theway

Ok I'm new to kemper. I've got Mesa rec-Jvm -5150 iii-Mesa V all incredible tube amps. I run my kemper to a ISP Stealth then to a Mesa 4x12. All of my Amps have there own footprint in tone-very different. I have never profiled these amps because I just got kemper. I did buy tonehammers and sin mix profiles . I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong or if the kemper is not for me but ALL of the high gain profiles are pretty much the same tone and feel. Pretty bummed out. A Jvm sounds nothing like a Mark series amp , but in kemper world mode it does

Theway,

Please do not take offense at this question...but have you fully and completely read both the Kemper "Basic Manual 3.0" as well as the much more in depth "Reference Manual 3.0"?

Notwithstanding your familiarity with the Kemper's user guides...
Can you confirm that you have disabled the CAB profiling when you are playing normal (studio) profiles on your KPA, connected to an external power amp and traditional guitar cabinet?

Since you are playing through a traditional guitar cabinet, you will want to globally disable the Cabinet profiling (Cab simulations), by going to Output Menu, soft button above the menu parameter "Monitor Cab Off". Make sure the "check mark" in the toggle box in the menu display is empty. This will turn off the cabinet simulations on all rig / profiles, globally. Also, you should make sure you are using the physical MONITOR Output jack to connect to your external power amp ---> NOT the MAIN Output jack(s). When you disable the Cabinet simulation in the Output Menu (Monitor Cab Off)...it only disables the cabinet sims on the signal going out the MONITOR Output jack. The MAIN Output jack(s) still retains the cabinet simulations, to allow this full signal (including cab sims) to be routed to the main Mixer and Front of House PA, during live performances.

I have noticed that many of the high gain STUDIO profiles on the KPA will sound similar, if your are connected to a traditional guitar cabinet, and have forgotten to turn off the CAB simulations.

I realize you may already be familiar with this, and are already doing this...but as you are a new owner, the question still needs to be asked.

Cheers,
John

Quote from sinmix

You know my opinion on this subject. Nothing has changed!

Stay Metal!

But rust never sleeps...

Are you trying to make some academic point here Sinmix? You say that the Kemper is composed of a very sophisticated AMP SIM and the only thing that really matters is the CAB part of the equation - where to place the mics?
It might be that after a certain amount of gain, the human ear perceives all sources of noise as just that - noise. Noise coming from different directions (mics positioned differently) sounds different, independently of the spectral quality of noise. Have you analysed the frequency spectrum of the Kemper, or has all of this gone over my head?

S-J

Quote from sinmix

You know my opinion on this subject. Nothing has changed!

Stay Metal!

Just to be clear...allow me to BOLD and emphasis the key points of my observation:

Quote from Tritium

I have noticed that many of the high gain STUDIO profiles on the KPA will sound similar, if you are connected to a traditional guitar cabinet, and have forgotten to turn off the CAB simulations.

Cheers,
John

With that said, IMHO most of the paint-peeling, UBER High Gain profiles sound similar, no matter what way your are using your KPA...not unlike the way the actual reference amps sound amazingly similar, when mic'd and/or recorded. Again, just my humble opinion.

Quote from Slippery-Jim

But rust never sleeps...

Are you trying to make some academic point here Sinmix? You say that the Kemper is composed of a very sophisticated AMP SIM and the only thing that really matters is the CAB part of the equation - where to place the mics?
It might be that after a certain amount of gain, the human ear perceives all sources of noise as just that - noise. Noise coming from different directions (mics positioned differently) sounds different, independently of the spectral quality of noise. Have you analysed the frequency spectrum of the Kemper, or has all of this gone over my head?

S-J

I also meant that the spectral quality analysis of each of the amp profiles compared to the original (tube) amp might lead to a final analysis... for better or for worse... fatal discovery... metallic meltdown?

Or maybe I should think before I ink?
Writing before fighting...

S-J