Profiling High gain amp ?

    Hi,

    I'm pretty new to KPA and i tried my two first profiles this afternoon, a Mesa Boogie Mark V Channel 1 Fat - normal mode and Channel 2 Crunch - normal mode. Done thoses two on my 4x12 Roadking, using a Rhode NT2000 inside a Focusrite ISA-One and in front of one of the C90. It sounds amazing, so damn close to the original !

    Now, i love clean sounds, ok, but i love even more that "monster vortex to hell cowboy banana" we refer as "Channel 3". I tried to go for my usual setup, Channel 3 Extreme with EQ and brutal gain and KPA couldn't profile it, telling me that the amp is too "noisy". It's not noise dude, it's EPICNESS in a tube !

    :D

    Well, i finally managed to make profile using a regular SM57 but it sounds like a big fuzzy pile of mud, which is infect. Same went with Mark IV mode...
    Anything i didn't understood ? I profiled using both clean and distorded but it didn't change a thing. My guess is about volume maybe, i did my distorded profiles two hours ago so i couldn't crank up the volume.

    Hope to find an answer about this, thanks !

    Quote from HateWorKs

    Hi,

    I'm pretty new to KPA and i tried my two first profiles this afternoon, a Mesa Boogie Mark V Channel 1 Fat - normal mode and Channel 2 Crunch - normal mode. Done thoses two on my 4x12 Roadking, using a Rhode NT2000 inside a Focusrite ISA-One and in front of one of the C90. It sounds amazing, so damn close to the original !

    Now, i love clean sounds, ok, but i love even more that "monster vortex to hell cowboy banana" we refer as "Channel 3". I tried to go for my usual setup, Channel 3 Extreme with EQ and brutal gain and KPA couldn't profile it, telling me that the amp is too "noisy". It's not noise dude, it's EPICNESS in a tube ! :D

    Well, i finally managed to make profile using a regular SM57 but it sounds like a big fuzzy pile of mud, which is infect. Same went with Mark IV mode...
    Anything i didn't understood ? I profiled using both clean and distorded but it didn't change a thing. My guess is about volume maybe, i did my distorded profiles two hours ago so i couldn't crank up the volume.Hope to find an answer about this, thanks !

    Since other users already successfully profiles their Mark Vs, it has to be something apart from the amp itself. You don´t need to krank the amp to get a clean signal. Slightly above room volume will be ok in most cases. How did you connect the 57 to the KPA? You will need to use the KPA XLR input and set the Return Level correctly. Those "amp too noisy" problems normally only occur when there is really a huge amount of hiss.

    Yep, i see some Mark V's profiles so i'm pretty sure i did something wrong. I was running the amp at really low volume, i'll make some more tests this afternoon.

    I placed SM57 on XLR Input and ajusted return levels. Sometimes i had a "Noise gate detected in external chain" message but i don't have any. Well, i'll just try some more i guess.

    Btw this KPA is awesome, really easy to use and versatile. We only need a software to name profiles, internal editing is soooo long !

    Quote from mikeb

    why would you ever profile at room volume???!

    Amps need to be cranked to have good tone, you capture that tone into the Kemper..

    Sorry, but this is wrong. A tube amp sounds equally good at 10% or 50%. However, when the poweramp distortion kicks in, it sounds like shit in most cases. The reason why you have to use a minimum volume to make it sound good is the speakers, not the amp. Like your HIFI speakers at home but only in a higher scale, your guitar speakers need to be pushed up to a certain level to make the low frequencies come to life. At a certain level your speakers begin to produce distortion themselves which is something that you might like or not. It´s not necessary in order to record a good tone.

    I did all my profile in my house. Yes, it was loud, but defitely not even near to what you would call "cranking" an amp.

    To blend the sound of two microphones without having to plug my console, lazy me !
    You could even do it with mix control (direct input for one mic and preamp for the other, you would then just have to setup volume for the direct one and then reduce / up the gain for the other one). Mister Kemper, we want this, now !

    ^^

    Quote from HateWorKs

    To blend the sound of two microphones without having to plug my console, lazy me !
    You could even do it with mix control (direct input for one mic and preamp for the other, you would then just have to setup volume for the direct one and then reduce / up the gain for the other one). Mister Kemper, we want this, now ! ^^

    In most cases those XLR / Line inputs are not electrically independant. I don´t believe it´s possible. Get a small submixer, it never hurts to have a spare one :P

    Quote from tylerhb

    %. However, when the poweramp distortion kicks in, it sounds like shit in most cases. The reason why you have to use a minimum volume to make it sound good is the speakers, not the amp. Like your HIFI speakers at home but only in a higher scale, your guitar speakers need to be pushed up to a certain level to make the low frequencies come to life. At a certain level your speakers begin to produce distortion themselves which is something that you might like or not. It´s not necessary in order to record a good tone.

    I did all my profile in my house. Yes, it was loud, but defitely not even near to what you would call "cranking" an amp.


    We will have to agree to disagree. All my tube amps get cranked to get good tone. ?(

    Quote from mikeb


    We will have to agree to disagree. All my tube amps get cranked to get good tone. ?(

    Well of course it´s all a matter of taste. For tight and percussive response with lots of transients and pick attack, and amp really needs headroom. Remember those Mesa Strategy 500 Beasts? This is what i´m talking about :love:

    Quote from tylerhb

    For tight and percussive response with lots of transients and pick attack, and amp really needs headroom. Remember those Mesa Strategy 500 Beasts? This is what i´m talking about

    Ah well, I am talking Marshalls.. lol. Anyways some amps get their tone from the preamp while others get a lot from both the preamp and the pushed power amp (and phase inverter). Just depends on which tone you are going for. :)

    Quote from mikeb

    Ah well, I am talking Marshalls.. lol. Anyways some amps get their tone from the preamp while others get a lot from both the preamp and the pushed power amp (and phase inverter). Just depends on which tone you are going for. :)

    What i just wanted to say is that this general legend of "tube amps need to be cranked to sound good" is simply untrue. For a crunch or lead tone this might be a way to go, but for shimmering clean and percussive and tight hi gain rhythm tones it´s just contraproductive. Every single of those 1 Watt amps or power scaled amps that i heard so far failed completely at those those sounds. A power amps that operates at maximum softens the attack like a compressor.

    Quote from tylerhb

    st wanted to say is that this general legend of "tube amps need to be cranked to sound good" is simply untrue. For a crunch or lead tone this might be a way to go, but for shimmering clean and percussive and tight hi gain rhythm tones it´s just contraproductive. Every single of those 1 Watt amps or power scaled amps that i heard so far failed completely at those those sounds. A power amps that operates at maximum softens the attack like a compressor.

    You cannot generalize the way an amp reacts to the Master Volume. Marshall style amps rely on the power amp to produce distortion.. a lot of modern amps do not. I do not have much experience with low wattage tube amps but suffice to say they are designed to be cranked since they have such low wattage.. so you can get a taste of power amp break up. But like I said, depends on the amp and the tone your are going for.