for people who have axe fx aswell as kemper

    Quote from JEverly

    I think part of whether someone likes the FM9 better than the Kemper is how high gain of tones you are going for. The FM9 has a lot more gain than the profiles I have for my Kemper. I don't really play super high gain tones though. Thankfully I am in a position where I can keep both of them and will. To me they are just different units that do things from different angles.

    It took quite a bit of adjusting time to get the FM9 in the ballpark of the Kemper with the Dirty Shirly amp model. I have the Tone Junkie profiles of this amp and I also have a Twin Sister amp that has two of this same circuit in it. That gives me something that a lot of people don't get and that is the ability to compare the kemper and FM9 to the real amp. The Kemper is way closer to the real amp than the FM9. I have the gain down to 1.5 on the FM9 just to get in the same ballpark. The models of this amp in the FM9 have more gain than the real amp has. I bought three York Audio IR packs on black Friday. My next step will be to add a creamback IR to both units to see if that gets them closer.

    What do you think about single coil cleans between the units? That's also something I care about.

    Quote from Bilinguitar

    What do you think about single coil cleans between the units? That's also something I care about.

    I happen to have a strat on the stand in my room with 3 single coils in it. I will give that a try when I get a chance and let you know. I was working with a guitar with low to medium gain humbuckers in it. I switch back and forth a lot.

    Quote from Bilinguitar

    What do you think about single coil cleans between the units? That's also something I care about.

    I am setting here playing with this today. I have my SSS strat plugged into an A/B box then each of the outputs of that going through two identical cables to the Kemper and the FM9. I am using an old Fender American special loaded with custom shop fat 50's pickups in it.

    The profile I am using is the Tone Junkie Dirty Surly, the cleanest one in the pack. The amp sim in the FM9 is the Dirty Shirley 2. I turned the gain to 0 and used the master volume for my output.

    The Kemper TJ profile uses the Friedman DS cabinet which has a Celestion Creamback 65 in it. The IR I am using in the FM9 is G12H Creamback 421. This is a 4x12 cabinet IR so I expected it to be a little thicker.

    At first the Kemper down right embarrassed the FM9 IMHO. The FM9 had such a muddy tone to it. The FM9 just has too much of everything to me and I find myself really cutting everything back to very small numbers to get the tones I like. It took A LOT of adjusting of the amp and cabinet as well as the compressor to get in the same neighborhood as the Kemper. The Kemper still sounds more like the amp. It has that chimey high end to it like the amp does. The FM9 has the high end but it just doesn't have the same dynamic qualities that the Kemper and the amp have. Even after a lot of adjustments it still has this lower mid to it that the amp really doesn't have in this setting. I could probably get it closer by putting an EQ in the chain and dialing it in more. To me, that isn't what this comparison is about. It is about how close the amp sims are to the real thing compared to how the Kemper compares to the real thing.

    The difference in the top end made all the difference in the world with how they sound on the in between tones. The position 2 and 4 tones on my strat are much more pronounced with the Kemper. They are there with the FM9 but sound much more stratty with the Kemper.

    I would gig either one of the tones I have going right now but much prefer the one I have in the Kemper right now. I didn't adjust the amp at all from the original TJ profile. I just cut the effects way back because he uses much heavier effects than what I do. I am getting tones I like from the FM9. I just have to dial EVERYTHING way back in it to get there. It takes a lot of adjusting and testing to get it where I want it to be.

    My honest opinion is that the amps sims in the FM9 are not all that close to the amps, at least the ones I have tested that I have the real amp setting here to compare to, I have a few of them. This isn't a huge deal though. I have been able to adjust them into something I can get along with. I would ignore the name of the amp they are modeling and use your ears to find one that is close to what you want and adjust from there.

    I think the FM9 may satisfy a higher gain metal player more than the clean / low / medium gain players. I think the Kemper will be the unit for the guys that don't like the endless tweaking and prefer something that has a signal chain closer to using a tube amp and pedals. To me, the Kemper does a better job at providing the actual tone and dynamics that the real amps give you.

    The bottom line for me is that I will keep both of these units because I am able to do that. They each offer me something slightly different that I can use. I will factor in that I have to make a lot more adjustments in the FM9 to get the tones I am looking for. I don't mind doing that. If I am doing a gig where I need my piezo equipped guitar, I will take the FM9. If I do not need the Piezo, I will take the Kemper.

    I am glad you asked this question. It gave me another chance to try getting another specific tone from both units and comparing it to my amp. That is always a fun day.

    Thanks for the info! Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, but useful. Ugh what to do?

    Quote from Bilinguitar

    Thanks for the info! Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, but useful. Ugh what to do?

    No problem. Some of the issues I had with the FM9 could possibly be resolved with some additional IRs. I was trying to stay with things that come with the units that don't require any additional purchases. I tried to use the same models and IRs of things that exist in both units to make the comparison as equal as possible. I also kept the signal chain as small as possible as to not introduce more variables. I think there are ways to get the two to sound closer but it will take more work.

    Quote from JEverly

    I would ignore the name of the amp they are modeling and use your ears to find one that is close to what you want and adjust from there.

    Great work and write up! I agree with the quote above. Some random amp on the rig exchange may sound closer to the amp tone you are trying to get. It is important to not get hung up on "this profile is from amp X" sometimes. Even a lot of the top profilers may use a similar amp when profiling a certain famous amp tone.

    As for getting other modeling units. I used to always play my Line6 stuff thru my marshall set on a clean tone. As an FRFR type of situation. Now I am really looking forward to running the Line6 stuff into the front end of the Kemper set to some cool low gain amps. Or even high gain amps with the AMP MIX setting being adjusted for different tones.

    You can look at the clip I dialled in to get an idea of how I think one should approach the Axe FX. I had the Thorendal and FAS Modern rigs running into a single output and completely killed the gain and whole lot of mids, bass and treble to get a sound I liked. In the case of these models, they sound like nothing in the real world.

    So I dialled it in based on my own tone choices, with settings that would not look normal on any amp. And it worked (I think),

    I would approach any of the other Axe rigs with the same mindset, I.e listening with your ears rather than looking with your eyes. There are some kicks tones to be found.

    In that regard, I also found the Axe to be as amp-like as the Kemper when it came to feel, which is to say they are almost there but the latency kills the experience.

    Quote from nightlight

    You can look at the clip I dialled in to get an idea of how I think one should approach the Axe FX. I had the Thorendal and FAS Modern rigs running into a single output and completely killed the gain and whole lot of mids, bass and treble to get a sound I liked. In the case of these models, they sound like nothing in the real world.

    So I dialled it in based on my own tone choices, with settings that would not look normal on any amp. And it worked (I think),

    I would approach any of the other Axe rigs with the same mindset, I.e listening with your ears rather than looking with your eyes. There are some kicks tones to be found.

    In that regard, I also found the Axe to be as amp-like as the Kemper when it came to feel, which is to say they are almost there but the latency kills the experience.

    Latency on both?

    Quote from nightlight

    completely killed the gain and whole lot of mids, bass and treble to get a sound I liked. In the case of these models, they sound like nothing in the real world.

    In that regard, I also found the Axe to be as amp-like as the Kemper when it came to feel, which is to say they are almost there but the latency kills the experience.

    Those kind of statements will get you flamed anywhere there are Fractal fan boys. I have taken a little heat just for giving my honest opinion on the experience I have been having comparing the Kemper and FM9 to a real amp. I honestly don't care if they want to hate on my results. It is my experience. Maybe I will start telling them I am thinking about selling the FM9 because it just can't keep up with the Kemper. That will make some heads explode.

    I agree with your comments above. I haven't really had any lag issues. Where I really noticed the differences is in the high end response and dynamics, as I noted in my posts above. I think that will be a significant difference within the mix of a live band or a recording.

    Quote from JEverly

    Those kind of statements will get you flamed anywhere there are Fractal fan boys. I have taken a little heat just for giving my honest opinion on the experience I have been having comparing the Kemper and FM9 to a real amp. I honestly don't care if they want to hate on my results. It is my experience. Maybe I will start telling them I am thinking about selling the FM9 because it just can't keep up with the Kemper. That will make some heads explode.

    I agree with your comments above. I haven't really had any lag issues. Where I really noticed the differences is in the high end response and dynamics, as I noted in my posts above. I think that will be a significant difference within the mix of a live band or a recording.


    Oh no, don't get me wrong. Towards the end of the clip, there are two amp tones which are just from the Axe. The FAS Modern and the Thorendal are sort of like "imaginary amps" in that you will not find anything like that in the real world. I just dialled them in for the kinds of amp tones I like. I could do the same with any of the models really, you need to be able to dial it in. The sounds are totally not what most people would use those models for, there are many more better suited for the job.

    As far as Axe FX versus Kemper, what I think is that the battle is really between guys who own either one or the other device. They either haven't tried both, or have only spent a limited amount of time on the competing product and then start waxing lyrical about their views.

    We saw it on the Neural QC thread here too. Guys who hadn't even used it (as the device wasn't out) were either hating or raving about it.

    It's quite childish really, and as with any kind of material that is not peer-reviewed, you shouldn't take it at face value.