Pianist looking at Kemper

    Hey everyone,

    It's been fun reading this forum for a few months, I finally decided to sign up. I hope I'll know enough soon to contribute.

    My background in music is brass instruments and piano. I have a very poor background in guitars and electronic amplification, in general. I just know I love music, I'm learning the guitar, I don't have any other hobbies, and the Kemper sounds powerful--so I'm saving up for a Kemper, and one or two high end pedals to go with it.

    I want to connect the Kemper to a speaker or PA, so that I can monitor (at somewhat high volumes) my keyboard/synth loops and Kemper tones together, so I can really get a feel for how they might sound together through a PA system.

    Can anyone see anything wrong with my potential set up?

    1. When roommates are NOT home and neighbors are gone:
    ----
    Kemper/pedals + keyboard --> non powered usb mixing board peavey 20 --> Electro-Voice ZLX-12P Black 12" 2-Way Powered Loudspeaker
    ----

    2. When roommates are home and neighbors are asleep:
    ----
    Kemper/pedals + keyboard --> non powered usb mixing board peavey 20 --> Headphones/DAW
    ----

    The EV loud speaker says it's 500w rms 1000w peak. I'm assuming all venue PAs will be well powered. So does this mean I do NOT need the powered-Kemper or even a powered amp at all???

    Will there be deficiencies in my tone since I am not using a power amp / guitar cab ?

    Also, if you're feeling generous, do you know which connection types do you think I should use for each of these symbols ' -->' in my potential set up?

    My goal is to be able to tweak high end sound from keys and guitar at home so I can know how it will sound through a large PA.

    Edited 3 times, last by CurtisLarson (September 20, 2016 at 3:45 AM).

    welcome :)

    lot of things you can do...so no real "right answer".

    setup looks ok, but i don't know much about keyboard.

    cables can be xlr/trs if you want balanced, instrument if it doesn't matter, spdif,

    can be mono, stereo, to monitor and pa.

    tone will be different for sure with any amp/cab, up to you to decide if this is good or not.

    you can use a tube or any amp to power any cab (speaker cable in this case or fire)

    large pa can mean a lot of things, but haven't heard of kpa not playing nice with any of them.

    depending on where you live, you can experiment at an "open mic" kind of jam session, if there

    are some pubs that do them. something like 2 songs per person, ppl show up have a couple and

    checkout tunes from various. anyone can play.

    also for learning guitar, rocksmith can be pretty handy. think of it as a cross between noodling and focused practice,

    you could call it a game in the way an accurate flight simulator is a game--it can also save you $$ learning to fly.

    iirc it has venues, amps, and gear you can unlock as you progress. make sure to select left handed, this flips the

    notes and it's in TAB--easy way to learn that, and i'm guessing you can read music, so things should go pretty smooth.

    main thing with kpa is to read the tutorial, the 2 manuals, then get into experimenting with the settings to get comfortable

    and find new things you like. no real limit to what you can learn about guitars and amps here...

    hope this helps :)

    Quote from CurtisLarson

    The EV loud speaker says it's 500w rms 1000w peak. I'm assuming all venue PAs will be well powered. So does this mean I do NOT need the powered-Kemper or even a powered amp at all???

    You don't need it unless you want to use a cab or passive speaker.

    Quote from CurtisLarson

    Will there be deficiencies in my tone since I am not using a power amp / guitar cab ?

    A guitar cab is just different. Some prefer it and others don't :) If you want a great variety of sounds and plan to connect direct to FOH, I wouldn't bother with a cab. I may prefer cab on small stages though, when the PA only contributes to the sound coming from the stage. But I'm so used to this guitar/cab thing. Else, I just bring the unpowered Kemper and rely on the provided monitor.

    Quote from CurtisLarson

    Also, if you're feeling generous, do you know which connection types do you think I should use for each of these symbols ' -->' in my potential set up?

    I'd use 1/4" TS to that mixer, and XLR to the speakers.

    Quote from waraba

    I had some troubles in the past with the FXs and tonal range of synths, Maybe someone from the Kemper team could answer that question :

    is the KPA really able to work on the whole synth/piano frequency range, band-wise ?

    It should, but it would obviously depend on the profile's response.

    I didn't get the impression that he intended to use the Kemper for keyboards though.

    Quote from Trazan

    I didn't get the impression that he intended to use the Kemper for keyboards though.

    The Deep Purple keyboarder used a tube amp for guitars, AFAIR.

    I guess, it might work out great with the Kemper and a keyboard. With the amp-section muted one could benefit from the great FX and clean piano sounds. For heavy organ sounds I could imagine some Plexi-Profile + Rotary emulation. A 7ender Deluxe with Rotary should also be an excellent choice for cleaner organs. And nasty, funky, slappy E-pianos might benefit from some auto-wah like FX... The arpeggiated synth section might love delays and the string-like synths might go well with micro tuning or chorus.

    "Will there be deficiencies in my tone since I am not using a power amp / guitar cab ?" No, the opposite 8)

    "The EV loud speaker says it's 500w rms 1000w peak. I'm assuming all venue PAs will be well powered. So does this mean I do NOT need the powered-Kemper or even a powered amp at all???" Exactly. No power amp needed.

    "Kemper/pedals + keyboard --> non powered usb mixing board peavey 20 --> Electro-Voice ZLX-12P Black 12" 2-Way Powered Loudspeaker"

    The keyboard will connect to the guitar in by an ordinary guitar cable, TS mono. The Kemper should be connected with two XLR to the mixer, stereo.

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Quote from SpinnerDeluxe

    The Deep Purple keyboarder used a tube amp for guitars, AFAIR.
    I guess, it might work out great with the Kemper and a keyboard. With the amp-section muted one could benefit from the great FX and clean piano sounds. For heavy organ sounds I could imagine some Plexi-Profile + Rotary emulation. A 7ender Deluxe with Rotary should also be an excellent choice for cleaner organs. And nasty, funky, slappy E-pianos might benefit from some auto-wah like FX... The arpeggiated synth section might love delays and the string-like synths might go well with micro tuning or chorus.

    "Will there be deficiencies in my tone since I am not using a power amp / guitar cab ?" No, the opposite 8)

    "The EV loud speaker says it's 500w rms 1000w peak. I'm assuming all venue PAs will be well powered. So does this mean I do NOT need the powered-Kemper or even a powered amp at all???" Exactly. No power amp needed.

    "Kemper/pedals + keyboard --> non powered usb mixing board peavey 20 --> Electro-Voice ZLX-12P Black 12" 2-Way Powered Loudspeaker"

    The keyboard will connect to the guitar in by an ordinary guitar cable, TS mono.

    Yeah, I'm not saying that you can't play keyboards through the Kemper or guitar amps, but I'm still saying that the OP didn't say anything about using it with keyboards :)


    Quote from SpinnerDeluxe

    The Kemper should be connected with two XLR to the mixer, stereo.


    I'd rather suggest 1/4" TS for that mixer, as he's close to the mixer and the mic inputs have no pad.

    Thanks for the responses. I'll have some pics and sound mixes to show in the future probably.

    I didn't plan to put the keyboard through the Kemper, but hell, why not give it a try. I'll see how it sounds and maybe I'll be buying two kempers. There is a small chance this would actually save money since Nord stage 2 keyboards (which I also have my eye on) are $3,000-4,000.

    Quote from Trazan

    but I'd prefer to avoid reducing an output that much, removing 4 bits

    A common missunderstanding in the audio world. The word "resolution" for bit depth is physically wrong, but still we all do use it. Bit depth is dynamics or how loud it can get. The real physical resolution is actually the sample frequency. Funny enough: in the world of monitors, TV-sets, cameras, printers the word resolution is used correctly (how many lines per mm = sample frequency), so is bit depth = dynamics = contrast.

    In other words: it is absolutely OK to reduce output level on the Kemper and you will NOT lose resolution.

    Ne travaillez jamais.

    Edited once, last by SpinnerDeluxe (September 21, 2016 at 12:57 PM).

    Quote from SpinnerDeluxe

    A common missunderstanding in the audio world. The word "resolution" for bit depth is physically wrong, but still we all do use it. Bit depth is dynamics or how loud it can get. The real physical resolution is actually the sample frequency. Funny enough: in the world of monitors, TV-sets, cameras, printers the word resolution is used correctly (how many lines per mm = sample frequency), so is bit depth = dynamics = contrast.
    In other words: it is absolutely OK to reduce output level on the Kemper and you will NOT lose resolution.


    I haven't mentioned resolution, so I'm not sure why that came up. I'm not disagreeing that bit depth defines dynamic range, not resolution. And yeah, the 25 dB of dynamic range lost probably wouldn't mean much in this context. But I still say it's bad gain staging compared to just using 1/4" TS in the OP's case (attenuating the Kemper and then adding gain in another preamp stage).