EKit users - Thoughts on the new DM10 X Mesh & TD-25KV?

    I'm.. in the market, for an electronic drum kit. An acoustic kit isn't a great option considering my space, and plus - much of my drumwork is by way of VSTi. I just don't have the space or equipment to get a passable drum performance tracked with an acoustic kit. My main purpose is to track MIDI and learn drums on, something I've wanted to do since I was a wee lad!

    The Roland kit appears to be generating a bit of buzz, mainly a disappointed buzz given that to the Roland faithful, the kit appears to be a downgrade in a sense, to the TD-15KV it is meant to replace. However it's at the ceiling of the budget I'm considering and I'm not heavily invested into the Roland route of drums, so therefore no real downside for myself investing into their 'repackaged' model.

    The other alternative being a DM10 X Mesh kit. An official mesh head alternative from Alesis, something I've been looking forward to for a long time but now beginning to sway away from. Largely due to inexperience with the options provided by Roland & Yamaha and concerns over the DM10's quality. Tbh the drum pads I'm not concerned about, it's the hihat and cymbal options that come with it that don't really enthuse me (That and polished demo videos CLEARLY showing missed hits and mis-triggering). That and the fact Alesis run a fairly strict financing option @ Sweetwater (as in none whatsoever, except in the case of their two new mesh kits, of which the promotion ends at the end of June). I intend to do the same with the Roland kit, should I choose it over the DM10, however I'll likely wait till Oct should I go for it (round the time SW does a 36 month promotion, if memory serves me correctly).

    Can anyone steer me in the right direction...? Will Roland quality win out? I certainly do like the option of having a seperate hi-hat stand in use on the Roland kit, as opposed to the wired pedal options found on the Alesis model.

    Hey mate.

    I've posted a similar question over at the VDrums forum, as I'm in the same position as you, but have probably had to wait longer (25+ years!). Here's the thread in case you'd like to see what folks say; it was put up yesterday but so far, nothing:

    Cheap Kit to Trigger TD-30 Brain - VDrums Forum

    I had my heart set on a high-end TD kit most of this time, but am starting to wonder if I'll ever be able to justify the expense. Have you seen the Behringer kits? They actually look pretty sturdy and capable - could be what you need.

    Same! Especially the TD-30, plus I'm wary of even considering a purchase in such cases. If I dive into a TD-25 for half the cost of a TD30, if a new flagship were to ever be released and drive the TD30 further down in price... well I guess I could always sell the TD-25, but I usually just don't purchase something in the hopes I can sell it later down the road. I try to make the purchase I know I'll keep unless circumstances force my hand. I went the same route with my keyboard, a keystation pro 88, which at the time with all of its bells and whistles finally tempted me given its affordability. I'm worried I'll get "stuck" with an alesis, now devalued due to being used and not having the extra put towards a kit that will certainly last me and avoid hindering myself.

    Looks as though you got a bite in your other thread ;) I posted there with my own questions too as I'm curious to know what the community would suggest given your situation!

    Just came across another user to have nabbed the TD25KV ;)

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    He seems to be quite pleased with its performance!

    The continued stress on the cymbal cables worries me. How anyone can think that constant bending (which is what it amounts to) every time a cymbal is hit, followed by the swaying as it settles, doesn't lead to some sort of cable failure is beyond me.

    I seem to recall seeing something similar on a Behringer video. I remember figuring I could reduce the wear and tear by taping the cable to the stand's "stem", depending on the direction from which the cable exits the pad (cymbal) itself.

    Dunno. That kit looks like something poised to break, 'though, based on this observation alone. I s'pose we shouldn't expect too much from the cheapies, but as I'm sure you'll agree, we were aiming at something a whole lot better for so long it's a tough pill to swallow.

    I don't know, tbh for all posts I've ever searched through over the years regarding ekits - I've yet to come across one regarding cable failure. I spose if it did pose an issue it's just a matter of replacing the cable, even if it's a part of a set like on the TD-25KV.

    The cheaper <15$ guitar cables of mine used to always get mangled and fail within a few months to a year's time. Bought a Mogami and its lasted me for over 5 years despite the abuse with no sign of slowing down. :)

    I have been in the whole EDrum subject for like 15 years now. To sum it up, it´s really shocking how far the technology seems to be behind comparing it to others intruments.

    Imo the Roland Mesh Pads are really good but the modules sound just awful. Harddisk based software drum samplers have been around like 13 years or so. But still the EDrum modules fail completely to catch up soundwise. I tested nearly every drum module starting with the TD-10 up to the TD-30 but still the sound seems so cheap and unnatural compared to software lilke BFD, Superior or others. The only module on the market that really allows to use your own multilayer samples seems to be the 2box module even though it has no harddisk but uses small SD Cards.

    Of course you can always hook up your module to your DAW and use the sounds from there. But this always feels like an additional point of failure when using it live.

    It would be so awesome if a company like Kemper would come up with a state of art drum module that would let you import or convert all those sounds from the big drum samplers and store them internally onto a SSD.

    I have a TD-30 kit in the studio (actually, A TD-20K kit with a TD-30 brain), and a pieced together live kit based around a TD-15 and Mac Pro running Steven Slate SSD4. While the TD-30 has pretty good internal sounds, even with that, I prefer triggering SSD or BFD.

    If you are already using a DAW, you are halfway there....so long as you have an audio interface that can give low latency performance. The Roland kits even have built in low latency USB audio, so I don't need to bring one live...just the laptop and kit. The advantage of the TD-15 (and I assume TD-25) over the TD-11 is that you can have a separate headphone and FOH mix, so you can send the internal metronome just to the headphones. Roland definitely has one of the best HH controllers, and SSD recognizes varying degrees of open to closed.

    My buddy has the Alesis and also triggers SSD. The main problem is the HH controller is pretty much just open/closed. He even bought the upgraded HH controller, but it makes no difference on the limited triggering. Every time he's at the studio, he raves how much better the Roland kit is.

    My suggestion, if this is just for the studio, is to piece together a used kit with the TD-11 brain and VH-11 hats. You could even buy the TD-11 new, and get the rest of the stuff used (it's all meant to be beaten anyway). And with this, trigger a plugin, such as SSD, BFD, Superior, etc.

    Optionally, you could get the DM-10 (there are some killer deals on that kit), but you would not have USB audio capability (not an issue if you already have a low-latency audio interface), and you would have limited HH control....but still, if you use it with SSD, BFD, etc., you will still have sounds far superior than even the top of the line Roland internal sounds.

    Yup it's my intention to use Superior Drummer :) I've my own drum mixes and templates that I use and would prefer its sound over most other onboard sounds in the long run. The benefit of at least decent module sounds would simply be for monitoring close to zero latency, which isn't much of a problem as I can already arm a track for MIDI with processed drums - and play on my padKontrol with little to no latency. I'm mostly concerned with having on hand a robust kit with a faithful reproduction in feel :D Thanks all for your input so far, looking forward to more!

    The HH triggering was certainly a concern of mine, and I'll seriously consider going the used route! I likely will only need the brain for its capability of interpreting accurately what is triggering, rather than its sounds if I do go down that road. Mmmm, going piece by piece is starting to seem more and more appealing...

    Yeah, here too mate.

    You've probably seen all the responses that suddenly appeared in that thread I pointed you to, no?

    Starting to wonder whether I should forget about module sounds altogether and, as you suggest, just use the brain for interpretation to MIDI and even for replay from MIDI whilst song-building, and then trigger SSD or whatever later on.

    It's a friggin' minefield out there. So many options. Definitely confused, so glad there's no major hurry.

    An Alesis DM10 user here. I got around the limited applicability of the hi-hat by investing in real cymbals, but I still have a lot of trouble with midi recording, a lot of notes dropped and just plain eaten up. I'm not too sure it's the fault of the Alexis or midi with drums in general. I mwan, you'd think a lot of people would put up more videos of recording with midi, but the only ones I found was programmed drums. I would recommend you look at the option of a 2Box Drumit 5 instead. You can copy the Superior sounds to it and it works like analogous recording. Has multiple outputs for various drum pieces. Far more reliable IMO.

    The good thing about the Alesis kit is that the hardware is good. Planning to just buy the 2Box module and hook it up to my existing setup.

    There are videos demoing on the Alesis and I do notice how some of the more subtle hits and nuances of playing get completely lost, and some hits don't even register at all (and this is with triggering the module's sounds!) which has me a bit wary of the DM10. This occurs also on the newer DM10 meshes from what I've noticed.

    I've yet to see this sort of faltering on ... well pretty much any of the Roland demos & reviews I've seen. It can be spotted from time to time where a cymbal swell or buzzroll is not quite as delicate as intended, but it's passable and most certainly editable afterwards : / Which is why I'm beginning to lean towards the TD-25KV again.

    I think I may have found my answer now.

    I'll be going with an acoustic kit, buying a shell pack to handle my Tom/BD, in addition to my pedal and HH stand.

    Next move will be a drum-tec snare, and their mesh head replacement/conversion kits for the toms and bass drum.

    Hitting the used market for ekit cymbals and modules that can be daisied. Then again daisychaining is not neccessary, and I could eliminate crosstalk with separate modules no? - so that I can just run USB midi from one module, and my MIDI in on my interface for the other module. This, to me, seems to be the best (and cheaper in the long run concerning expansion with the used market) route to go. And I'll be quasi-investing into two kits instead.

    The purchase of shells + Conversion kits will likely run about the same cost of roland pads, but I miss out on the module and e-cymbals included in such deals. I'm figuring around 1.5k USD for Tom and Bass shells w/ conversion alone. Add an additional 1k$ for a module and snare and I'm already running up to the price of a TD-25KV and still lacking cymbals & hardware. But I have arguably more pads that are the size of an acoustic shell, and e-cymbals used are looking pretty good in the pricing dept and is something I can work up to piece by piece...

    I'll have to sit on this idea for a little while longer.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Yeah, here too mate.

    You've probably seen all the responses that suddenly appeared in that thread I pointed you to, no?

    Starting to wonder whether I should forget about module sounds altogether and, as you suggest, just use the brain for interpretation to MIDI and even for replay from MIDI whilst song-building, and then trigger SSD or whatever later on.

    It's a friggin' minefield out there. So many options. Definitely confused, so glad there's no major hurry.

    Yeah the reactions in that thread are a bit ... aggressive I spose and more or less unhelpful. Tang's post are pretty straightfoward at least. I agree also that perhaps the TD-30 would be best for simply triggering - but I too wouldn't suggest going too cheap concerning the pads/triggers. If you do by chance pursue the hobby very far you'll be paying out more it seems to get better responding triggers in the end. Just about every piece of gear I have has a purpose and is never left to collect dust, and can always be relegated to a different use if replaced (ok, my midi keyboard being the exception but I still use it quite a bit). If I buy a kit I want it to be the one-all end all solution to my needs.

    But you're right in that there's no rush, I oftentimes will sit on such thoughts for years before making a purchase... lol At least, that was the case with the Kemper, my keyboard, guitar, bass, etc... I waited on my purchase til I found the 'one' that fit my specs and needs. I want the same out of the eKit.

    I'm beginning to lean towards doing the A2E conversion using triggers. I never had any intention of using module sounds, except in the case of zero latency which I don't believe will be a problem anyways (at least, not during tracking/writing). Plus I'm used to play with latency anyways, it's never tripped me up at least. I can just work with using shells and HHs and expand my cymbals over time after picking up a used roland module. Or maybe even the 2box that night mentioned.

    'Cost per pad' seems to be around the same compared to buying a drum shell and a dual trigger + mesh head, less so if I decide to completely dedicate the drumset to triggering - so long as the hardware/shells hold up I can go even cheaper : /

    Ha! You seem to think similarly to me, mate.

    Even on my "meagre" budget, where it takes years to save between purchases, my patience and ambition are my worst enemies. I want to do it right, and to do the music I'll be making justice as opposed to churning out 2nd-rate waffle made with sub-par equipment in the hope that a sugar daddy in the form of a record company or whatever'd step in to save the day... someday. Sure, I'll be starting 30 years late due to unavoidable hold-ups as well, but I figure once the ball starts rollin', it won't stop. Success for me will be defined by the ability to kick back in the lounge room, pop one of my songs on the hi-fi and... be satisfied. That's all. I only want to impress myself!

    Anyway, I've been checking out some reviews on the Yammy DTX900 / 950 kits. They look pretty good. Big pads (just as you like), and 3-way triggering on all of them. Even the cymbals (all of them) are 3-zone. Looks the biz, as well as being built like the proverbial brick craphouse. Half the price of the Rolly, I think, and loaded with more "natural" kits.

    How one of these puppies would be used to track VIs (and overdub parts) whilst using the onboard sounds for latency-free monitoring is still a bit of a mystery to me, especially as I'll be replacing the MOTU I/O with the same company's AVB system, which is hugely sophisticated in its routing abilities... and confusing to me!

    Now, I wanted to mention the Yamaha option for your purposes to you for two reasons:

    1) The naturalness of the sounds, which, in a pinch, might be passable on a gig, but would definitely suffice for monitoring whilst tracking to a VI, IMHO.

    2) That A2E setup you're contemplating's gonna be noisy, something I suspect doesn't matter to you, but if it does in any way, the Yammies seem to be the quietest eKits out there, and possibly by quite some margin.

    Just puttin' this out there for ya, bud.

    Oh well, guess it's time to check back in on the VDrums thread and see if anything's been added. Thank you for the chat, Redoubt.