Volume into FX vs into Plugins

    I've learned to put more manageably lower volumes into plugins so they can operate at their maximum in my DAW.
    So I check input meters religiously now, or put such a meter before

    Is there also an issue with jacking up the gain of one FX before another, or even going into your first and only FX with too high a volume?
    (In other words: does a very high input volume affect the FX you chose negatively, and therefore you should go in with a lower volume for maximum sweet spot?)

    Proper gain staging is very important. When recording i try not to record to hot as all is digital, not like the old days where recording hot was to over come noise and tape hiss. If my recorded signal is -12db and i go into a plugin i make sure that my signal coming out of the plugin is -12db so im constantly checking my gain staging :)

    Re. Raoul's post: That's good practice! And even moreso due to the fact that louder often sounds better (and sometimes worse, depending on what you're doing) - so you HAVE to level match when judging the impact and effect of a certain plugin.

    db: good question. SOME plugins can actually clip internally (and not the good kind of clipping), depending on how they're coded. Also, it's not always desirable to drive plugins that have saturation built in (many analogue emulation plugins etc).

    Regarding the Kemper: I would imagine that it is at least a relevant consideration. Some guitar players like to cascade overdrives, because they like driving the input of a certain pedal in a certain way. I'd imagine this is a matter of simply using your ears (man, don't we all hate that answer??). I suspect there is no problem with internal clipping (the bad kind) in the kemper, though this is just guesswork.

    I've only recently become well aware of the issues. I've seen the term "gain staging" but never delved into it. I see that recording requires foreplay after all! I should READ more, I've just gotten lazy since I have to read so much for work and have fun reading on the side that's not recording related. Where to find these hours?!?

    Gain
    I read off Recording Revolution about controlling your levels, but had in my head the 'go in hot' from my analog tape days. Amazing the gaps in your knowledge. So I had this instruction "-10 to -18dB" from Revolution.

    Reference
    I've used Reference tracks for a whole Mix, but never individual ones. What I did was grab a drum track and try to match it.
    It became obvious that my drums needed to have more kick and more air, so on went EQ. Then I matched the reverb. All levels controlled. Then I used compressors but had trouble clipping. So I put a Limiter on the end of the chain and then used the compressors to match the Reference tracks level and wa-lah, done! So THAT's the trick. Using a limiter and compressing but not pumping it too much. Only thing I don't have a feel for is how much not to over-compress so there is room for Mastering (in theory, I just do this stuff for fun) But I guess you go through stages. When song writing it's all "love love love" until you mature. So for Mixing it seems like 10dB EQ cuts and 10dB compression gain until you understand subtlety better.

    Ears
    But what this did was force me to use my ears and lo-and-behold, ears work! So "trust your ears" is very true, but you have to have a comparison to go by if you don't have the Engineering learning and experience. Probably still even then a good idea I imagine since you may be working with many different styles.

    Firstly, setup your session for 24bit.

    Digital headroom is not the same as analog. you have more to play with. old days = analog harmonic distortion, a little pleasing on some things, Digital=Flat-line clipping, real bad!.

    One lesson, never use plugin to control gain. what goes in, goes out. - the effected signal is the net result. - only "perceived" volume may have changed depends on what your using.

    Gain-staging is relative easy "in the box" - but when mixed with hybrid setups (external gear) it gets a lot more complex.. - so keep things simple.
    Its OK to record digitally at slightly hotter signals, but rule of thumb, use (RMS, Route means squared) average of -12-18...

    ok So why does my fader keep spiking at 0db! I hear you ask!.. well. - this is "PEAK" volume.. RMS=Average energy throughout the track. - this is why we use compression to control the peaks, so the overall volume is closer to RMS..

    Have funzies!

    I disagree with Andy... Always use plugins to control level! :D

    But not a limiter, of course!!! :)

    All DAWs have some kind of gain plugin that does only that (and perhaps a couple other things, like polarity flip etc). Use that as the first plugin (or clip gain, or pre-fader gain if your DAW has them). What you do is you pull down the level of each track to where the RMS level is at say -18 dBFS, or (for more transient material) where it peaks at maybe -10 dBFS. This can be done quickly if you have a good meter on your master (potentially a plugin), by soloing each track in turn and adjusting. Needless to say, this should be done with all the track faders at zero. This will most of the time (depending on number and content of the tracks) give you a good starting point to where you can have your faders in the sweet spot during mixing, without half of them very low and the other half very high.

    Think of this as something that comes before actual mixing, along with all the other boring stuff, like colour-coding and grouping tracks, naming them if necessary etc etc. And it will keep any susceptible plugins from clipping internally.

    Many (most?) EQs will have a make-up gain, like most compressors do. Always use these to level match, so that when you turn the plugin on and off, there is no difference in perceived level. Then you'll make sure that you judge the plugin settings on their own merit. Adjust frequently as you go along dialing in the plugin. This is not gain staging for optimum volume with regards to a particular piece of gear; it is more in relation to your EARS.

    For plugins that DON'T have this make-up gain control, you can just use another "gain" plugin (sometimes called "trim" plugins) right after. They usually take up virtually no processing power.

    Simplified: When using a limiter on the master buss, all your plugin moves on the individual tracks are basically adjusting what the limiter reacts to as much as they are adjusting what the track plugin is doing. This is true of buss compression as well. For instance, boost the bass area by 15 dB on a kick drum, and what happens? Bass is affected, yes, but so is the high end - as the limiter knocks down the overall level to compensate - which in turn sucks out your mids and highs from the signal. All this leads you to much more drastic EQ moves and level settings than what you need to do. It's a chasing-tail kind of thing. It can really screw with your automation moves too, if you're a novice like me :)

    Don't be too fast in setting the faders - get those really really RIGHT before doing anything else. This could include using the reference tracks too, I guess. We have a tendency to go for the plugin folder as fast as possible, but really the levels are more important - they're the foundation.

    I'm wondering - you say you had trouble clipping when adding compression. Compression pulls DOWN levels, so I'm wondering if you used auto-make-up gain? I've never gotten that to work well.

    But you are right, in the beginning you tend to use overly dramatic moves - just part of the learning process, getting acquainted with what you're listening for.

    Regarding Andy's

    Quote

    this is why we use compression to control the peaks, so the overall volume is closer to RMS..


    This could be misunderstood to mean that "that is the only thing we use compression for", which is not the case (and I'm sure it's not what Andy meant either). Just want to point that out. It's ONE of the uses. Other cases might be using it to get HIGHER peak to RMS level, or to adjust level fluctuations over longer periods of time.

    With regards to compression, think of it as a tool to control attack rather as much as a tool to control level. Those attack and release controls are extremely important in shaping the sound :)


    OK, I'm all done for now.... Hope something in there makes sense :)

    Made a LOT of sense, yes!

    I was clipping by adding gain to the compression, yes. I had the limiter on the individual track so I didn't affect other tracks, so I got lucky. Good info to know.

    I used compression to smooth out a performance (bass, vocals), for effect (vocals sometimes), for gain (loudness) and if I COULD chicken pick I'd definitely use it for that!

    But I like the mind set: Level Volumes as a part of setup before Mixing. I hadn't thought of adjusting the post effect volume so that I could do a fair comparison. That's an entirely un-thought of thing. I know to match volume when doing comparisons like when I was evaluating the Kemper. But hadn't thought of it for simple check on whether an effect is actually good or I'm just liking the "MORE VOLUME" part of it. Great point, thank you!