Andy Sneap Interview, trick to tone match during refining.

Sledge139 · February 11, 2015 at 8:57 PM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S1GvxldhZDQ

At about 5 or 6 minutes in he talks about a trick he uses during refining to tonematch his old recorded guitar tracks.

Not sure if I missed any steps but:
I tested this by creating a profile, then during refining I sent a recorded track to my return and a DI to the input. It actually came out very close to the recorded track's overall sound, even though when I started it wasn't even in the ballpark.

Raoul23 · February 11, 2015 at 9:46 PM

Thanks for sharing I'll be giving this a a good watch

djemass · February 13, 2015 at 10:31 AM

Hi, very interested in this, sorry but my english is far to be perfect, and i am afraid not having understood perfectly the stuff.

Is the Di track they mention a final track (guitar+amp+cab) ? Am I correct ?

Unless of course your recording track was a DI profile (without cab)...

So you profile studio profile (amp+cab), then during refining you insert your recorded track in the return. So far so good...

Imagine in my case I profile my 2c+ /recto / Sm57 combo, then I feed the Kemper during refining with an Isolated Petrucci track, I could get something really very very close of Petrucci recorded tone !!

If it works, this could be a total revolution for guys like me !!

More and more excited !!

What is the role of the DI in the input ? Oh I see, it simulates that something is connected in order to allow the refining process. Correct ?

nightlight · February 13, 2015 at 1:09 PM

1) The thing is to trick the Kemper into seeing something as a real amp, he was mentioning Bias Grid, but also tone matching using something like Ozone.
2) The next thing is to feed a DI track from an older album. This refines the profile.

At least, that's what I understood. Sledge139's method seems to be something more though, feeding a recorded track as well. I didn't get that from the interview, but it was really informative.

KillDivision · February 13, 2015 at 1:29 PM

This is interesting.
Would love to have the Reign In Blood sound in the Kemper.

tylerhb · February 13, 2015 at 1:54 PM

Quote from KillDivision

This is interesting.
Would love to have the Reign In Blood sound in the Kemper.

I once did a tonematch of that.

You can find it on the rig exchange...

"TillS angelofdeath 2"

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 3:37 PM

Djemass
I'll be a little more specific of what I did and what I tested.

I took a full profile of my ampeg vl1002 and cab. Just tried to get a good sound wasn't trying to sound like Killswitch Engage at this point. I created a guitar only di that I played along with a KSE guitar track I grabbed from a multitrack mogg file.
During refining I fed my guitar only di back to the Kemper to trick it into thinking I'm playing and the KSE guitar track into the return.at the same time. I found if it's not tight there is some weird artifacts. So I tried again on a tighter.and it worked.

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 3:56 PM

It ended up sounding nothing like the Ampeg profile and sounding very close to the KSE track! I bet if I had the plain guitar di's from KSE it would be even better! My playing doesn't do them any justice.

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 5:02 PM

Nightlight
What I got from the interview was.
1. he used something like positive grid or ozone to create the base profile close to the tone
2. the tricking it into thinking it was a real amp during refining was by sending the di and recorded track at the same time.

I skipped step 1 to see if step 2 worked.
Even if I was wrong with my assumption, step 2 works for me.

djemass · February 13, 2015 at 5:25 PM

Quote from Sledge139

Djemass
I'll be a little more specific of what I did and what I tested.

I took a full profile of my ampeg vl1002 and cab. Just tried to get a good sound wasn't trying to sound like Killswitch Engage at this point. I created a guitar only di that I played along with a KSE guitar track I grabbed from a multitrack mogg file.
During refining I fed my guitar only di back to the Kemper to trick it into thinking I'm playing and the KSE guitar track into the return.at the same time. I found if it's not tight there is some weird artifacts. So I tried again on a tighter.and it worked.

OK I get it. Just play a guitar (unrpocessed) DI over a real guitar stem, then feeding the return of Kemper while refining. Clever... One question mix between your unprocessed DI track and the guitar stem is 50%/50% ?

Thanks

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 6:10 PM

Djemass
I think I'm confusing you. no think of it as regular refining.
While refining:
You send 100% only the isolated petrucci track to your return. Instead of your amp!
The kemper input needs to be 100% from a guitar or a guitar di of you playing along perfectly. In my case used SPDIF in with a DI of me playing.

The kemper is tricked because it's getting what it expects.
your amp is not used after the initial profile is taken.
And nothing is mixed.

hope that clears things up.

djemass · February 13, 2015 at 6:21 PM

Ok to sum up

Standard profiling of my amp/ cab. While refining, I unplug my mic and amp and I replace my mic by a DI box and my amp by my soundcard/computer and feed the return by a 100% petrucci guitar isolated track. So here no need in this case I play anything. Correct ?

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 6:43 PM

Quote from djemass

Ok to sum up

Standard profiling of my amp/ cab. (Yes!)
While refining, I unplug my mic and amp and I replace my mic by a DI box and my amp by my soundcard/computer and feed the return by a 100% petrucci guitar isolated track.
(I didn't use a di box but yes!) I fed the return right from one of my monitor outputs from my soundcard. And adjusted the levels to match.

So here no need in this case I play anything. Correct ?
(You need to play so you can feed the kemper input. Otherwise it won't refine.)

djemass · February 13, 2015 at 6:50 PM

Ah ok I have to play over the isolated track in a live situation. Me in the input and Petrucci track in the return. It means 2 Feed origins simultaneously

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 6:51 PM

Sorry I'm not sure about the last line about needing to play in order for it to refine.
I just know when I sent it a part that I didn't play tight with the chugs it seemed to put artifacts in.
I started over from scratch this time with a much tighter take and it worked much better.

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 6:54 PM

I think you've got it.

djemass · February 13, 2015 at 6:55 PM

Bro sorry I am a dumb but I am totally lost. Perhaps a tutorial could help me ?

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 7:40 PM

I was just as confused when watching the interview.
But you said it right. You in the input (guitar only like normal) and Petrucci in the return.
Think of how someone like Andy Sneap would use this.
He has the straight guitar Di tracks and the final tone tracks.
He would send the DI to the input and the final tone to the return. Hit refine. Done.
We unfortunately don't have the straight guitar DI tracks so you either need to recreate them or play live.I would think DI tracks is the way to go as any timing errors seemed to mess things up.

djemass · February 13, 2015 at 8:54 PM

I think it can be easy for Andy Sneap. Pan 100% right the DI and 100% left the processed, then plug each output ( left or right) accordingly.

About recreating an existing guitar stem ( example Petrucci) you have to play it live the most accurately possible

Sledge139 · February 13, 2015 at 9:25 PM

That is the key my friend! Let me know how it comes out.