Posts by OneEng1

Quote from Wheresthedug

Most of the power in that 5kw PA would be soaked up by kick drum, bass guitar and the bottom end of keyboards. Guitar frequencies are much easier to hear per watt of power.

TRUE!

In my DSR112 top speakers, there are 2 transducers. A HF tweeter, and a 12" woofer. It is clear that 75W of tweeter can blow away 1000W of woofer any day.

Guitar amps aren't quite this bad, but still, a guitar amp doesn't need to pump out huge bottom end so it can spend all its energy pushing out tons of volume in the mid range ....... right where our ears are most sensitive!

This is exactly WHY a 100W tube amp can blow the mix on a 5K (or pick a number, it really doesn't matter) FOH system.

I just spent the afternoon with my drummer going over the last practice virtual sound check multi-track through the PA. The guitars were glorious in the mix, and the mix sounded great through the PA. I don't have a monitor for my guitar on-stage, and the other guitar player has very low output that is mic'ed (and we have vDrums). The KPA sounds SOOOO nice in the mix.

We all use IEM's (Shure PSM300) so we have no loud wedges on stage. I have been playing in a band setup like this since the late 90's. The loud and loose bands I used to play in when in my 20's and 30's seem like Kindergarten compared to what I do now.

I do wonder though if the younger generation growing up with world class modelers and profilers/capture devices for guitar will not bring about a change to the "amp-in-the-room" expectation since these kids will never get used to the idea that band practice ends with your ears ringing

I also think that IEM's will start becoming much more affordable in the next few years (like digital mixers did) as they become the norm for bar bands (has been my norm for quite some time).

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I think (just a theory) that much of what many guitar players call "amp in the room" sound is about volume.

A decent tube amp and a 4x12 (even a 2x12) can put out a crazy amount of sound (way more than the stage should be subjected to IMO .... which is another discussion entirely).

I have had a single 100W tube head overwhelm a 5000W PA system.

Some guitar players that need to "feel" the palm mute on-stage. Certainly all of us love the feel of a guitar in a room with such high speaker feedback that the strings are so alive they just sing themselves right off the fretboard :).

This is just my theory though. YMMV.

Quote from V8guitar

Its fair to say that permanently connecting a computer has caused issues. As a standalone unit however, freezing remote is not common. Any connectivity issues to the remote is rarely an issue with a shitty cable but the weak ports, especially on the profiler side as the alloy is relatively weak.

There have been issues over the years, slowness not really consistently one of them. I have been on this forum for about 8 years so I think I have a pretty good grasp of the tone of concerns and main issues.

Well done for guessing there would be a smaller unit, as did so many other people, however its not really done for the reasons you suggest ( as a more disposable unit for live) so only half right. I've never really understood this argument because:

1) The remote is even cheaper

2) Many other competitor units don't seem concerned - Quad, Helix etc,

3) Most none digital pedal boards are expensive anyway - pop a couple of Strymon's on and boom...

I suspect the Player fills a gap in the market for a lower entry point for customers to the sound of Kemper, a more compact offering as a fly rig for either live and/or rehearsals.

You mention a Kemper 2 so I suppose you will take credit for that when it inevitably comes out....

If my response comes across as snarky, its because your post comes across as smug and derogatory which tends to illicit a similar response. I'm really not clear what point you are trying to make...

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I have had the same experience. Only issues with leaving my KPA hooked up to the computer over night (I don't think it likes it when the computer hibernates and wakes back up).

The Player does allow a lower entry point for people that want to experience the Kemper but don't have the money for a full size unit. It is also much more compact as you stated.

I personally feel like it missed a number of points that would have made it more universally appealing, but of course, everyone has their opinions on a new product :).

Quote from drog

Hmmm, this works perfectly fine as a backup to my main KP Rack. I still can use my same Rigs just fewer , less effects, morphing but it will certainly get me by in a time of need. If you need more than that, a second KP Rack is really what you need for redundancy. IMO

Fair enough.

I would have liked a backup in the form of a 3 button small rig Kemper Player. It could then operate as a throw and go rig for when carrying a rack and FC is just too much.

If I were to buy .... just a backup for my primary gigging, you are correct. I would just get another used Rack (which you can get for <1K today).

Would have liked to have a backup that also acted as a simple (I can put it in my luggage) portable solution. Hard to argue with the Kemper tone though. Just would really need the full premium efx in order to not have to have a special work effort to get my backup solution acceptable for a gig.

I still might end up getting it some day. Hard to give up that Kemper tone ;). I'll wait out the premium verbs and delays though.

Quote from Ruefus

I'm guessing here....but I think the WHAT vs HOW MUCH comparison has to do with modelers being more resource-intensive. In comparison, the Profiler is obviously light on it's processors. Using the *exact* same hardware since 2011 (Head/Rack)?!?!?!

There's zero doubt the Player is basically a Sleeper. Way more power than we can currently see. Are the limitations artificial? Almost certainly.

For *half* the cost, I can't blame them.

Certainly.

I am just suggesting that the average consumer wont know or care about why things are the way they are, only that one company offers this set of features, and Kemper offers another.

As for the idea of cannibalizing their higher end products, my opinion is that the limitations of only 3 buttons, no FC integration, and only 4 efx slots are more than sufficient to give product differentiation (just my opinion. YMMV).

I am not upset about it, just a little disappointed. Would have liked a backup companion to my Rack. This product just isn't it though. Maybe it will be with a few updates (here's crossing my fingers ).

Quote from Ruefus

Had the Player come first, or very early on…..none of these questions/criticisms/complaints would exist.

Asking the Player to do what the bigger units do is like asking an HX Stomp equal a Helix, or insisting an FM3 do what an AxeFX III does.

They serve different purposes. Just ‘cause it doesn’t fit *your* expectations means nothing.

Both the HX Stomp and FM3 have limited their abilities from their "big brother" in a way that doesn't remove WHAT the unit can do, but rather HOW MUCH.

Every effect is supported, only the total processing is different (granted, the FM3 is 1/4th the processing of the full AxeFX III).

I think the combination of removing WHAT can be done in addition to removing HOW MUCH can be done has made the unit unfit for many use cases OR has made the product less competitive in its market space.

I am not saying no one will buy it or anything silly like that (it's a Kemper after all), just that it would likely have been a home-run product with a few different product decisions. As it is, it will still likely sell a ton more than all their other products combined. This is simply because it is a Kemper and it is priced at half of what you pay for its nearest sibling.

I will agree that many who are upset are just venting and being anti-social in their posts..... particularly those who accuse Kemper of not caring about their customers (that is blatantly silly).

Quote from V8guitar

No because for me, I just found all profiles just took on the character of the cab and despite much tweaking ( which ruined the FOH sound) I got a fairly bland sound even with top quality speakers.

4x12's also do not have the spread and project people think they do. Stand slightly to one side and the sound drops and alters significantly.

In my choices for monitoring, its the last one I would use - assuming its only for on stage monitoring. If you are trying to play off the backline, that is even more problematic.

If you are really keen to use one ( and I've no idea why people do these days) then I would suggest merged profiles.

But that's just me....

This was exactly my experience.

Quote from KrisMil

The Kemper effects are enviable. The unit is heavily compromised by not including them. A tiny screen naming the rig (and even for tuning) would have been more than useful. I'm not even sure, but is 50 rig slots the limit? It's ok. It would have been mind blowing 5 years ago. But it isn't where the market is right now.

I believe you will not be the only one that thinks this.

I understand the player is NOT just a smaller stage. I also think that many will infer that it is despite what the documentation states.

The difference between "profile", rig and performance are details that are easily missed by non KPA advanced owners.

This will continue to be a problem IMO because the market has been conditioned to think this way by other competing products.

Maybe we could start a thread asking for a "Kemper Player Plus" 😁

I think there is a very good case for adding in:

1. All premium efx missing
2. Morphing
3. All missing amp adjustment parameters

I don't know if it is possible to add in 4 more efx slots as I don't know what DSP power is available to the Player.

Fractal has an interesting method of regulating its FM3 to differentiate it from its FM9 and full powered Axe FX III. The entire line has a CPU throttle. If you run out of processing power, you simply can't add another block. The FM3 has about 1/4th the power of the full Axe and about half that of the FM9..... but all units can utilize the same parameters and efx blocks .... just not as many or as powerful. A really nice verb might cost you 1/3rd of your processing on the FM3 as an example.

Fractal's approach still doesn't allow you to take any rig from the Axe FX III and play it on the FM3; however if you keep your setups simple, they will work on both.

I would like to see the Kemper Player be able to be used live for any simple setup supported on the bigger units. I fail to see how this will effect sales of the bigger units.

I for one would never give up my Kemper FC and Rack rig for a Player. The Player form factor is simply not nearly as effective at gigging (and that is all I use mine for).

I might buy one for a mobile throw and go solution if it supported all my efx (I have replaced nearly all my legacy reverbs and legacy delays with better ones). For people that use Morph all the time, that would also be needed for this purpose.

There is some wiggle room for a paid upgrade here. The FM3 is a 1K device. Arguably, with its color LCD it is a bit more premium than a Player, but sound wise, I think a Kemper player with full efx capabilities would be close to on-par with the gigability of an FM3 and certainly better than the $700 Line 6 Helix Stomp which reportedly has issues with switching time between patches ( a deal killer for a live application).

Quote from pippopluto

Mhhh... I think this is not the point tho. Having expectations is one thing, as well as being frustrated when you discover specs don't fit your needs. But blaming Kemper because you did not even bother reading the specs or, even worse, blabbering about "jokes" is a totally different thing. As if Kemper team did not lost their sleep for months over trying and finding the best compromises, design and price point for the new unit (were hundreds of thousands Euro are invested). As any other small manufacturer, I mean...

I agree that there is no excuse for having bad manners because your expectations were not met. Voicing your disappointment can be done while maintaining good demeanor.

FWIW, I run groups of engineers that design hardware for a living. I suspect that the cost for development of the Kemper Player was likely 1 million or more (I have easily dumped 2-4Million in a hardware program involving hardware, firmware, apps, and integration with server resources). The Player isn't as big a program as some of these, but I would bet it is 1M plus. So your point is valid. They have to get a return on their investment.

Quote from pippopluto

Mhhh... This is another tricky point IMO. Chances are the Player was never meant as a backup, except for those who only use 2-4 fx per rig and have very simple requirements in terms of versatility (I've read of many who were happy about the Player just because their needs were totally covered, and with the legendary Kemper tone).
Another very typical application would be - from what I've been reading around - adding the Player to a stomp pedalboard (there are many impressive examples already).
So basically it all boils down IMO to expectations and evaluations. Silly to become aggressive because you chose the wrong unit for your needs, no?

If it is true that the Player was never meant as a backup, then it was certainly a Product Management oversight as this was some pretty low hanging fruit in the market, but your point is well taken. It could well be that this was not a target market (even if we all wanted it to be).

I would contend that most people who use a full sized KPA rarely use more than 2 pre and 2 post efx .... or that they could certainly make due with 2 pre and 2 post in a pinch. Certainly, no one would expect Kemper to create a 3 button KPA that was a full KPA with the limitation of it having only 3 buttons as no competitor does this either. If performances were able to be shared with the full KPA's, I think that the lack of efx slots could be worked around in nearly all situations except the most extreme rigs.

As a player as a stomp box in a pedal board, you are looking at competition with the $400.00 Tone X pedal. In a pedal board, you are likely going to see dedicated delay, chorus, and reverb units. Personally, I personally don't understand these kinds of rigs at all. Very expensive, not that flexible, and lots of things that can go wrong in a gig (one of the reasons I bought a Kemper in the first place!). Not to mention the dreaded tap dance routine needed to switch from one sound to another! No thanks :).

Again, I agree that there is no need to get aggressive about this subject.

Quote from crivat

had no less than 4 AXEFXs, one of the first KPAs sold by thomann (sent it back based on lag-related issues,) currently entering my 10th year of playing KPA on tour, owning 3 KPAs, 2 players and 2 remotes. fucking flawless. just sent a hx stomp xl back to muziker because of un-usability caused by lag between patches. and no, snapshots don't cut it for me

I agree. Snap-shots in Helix (Quad Cortex does the same thing I believe .... for the same reason) are really just giving you one set of parameters for a rig and giving you 2 more parameter sets within that rig. You can't actually change the rig to another rig. When I want a clean, I usually don't use the same amp, routing and efx as I do for a drive, let alone a heavy rig.

Quote from Steve5478

I wanted to talk about a new kemper's player owner. It means, he catches a rig on rig exchange and put it in his Player but he can't set those absent parameters anyway!?

The Kemper Player doesn't offer as many ways to customize a rig as the full KPA. There will be some people who had expected that the Player would have the same editing capabilities of a rig as the bigger brothers (the competition does). Not saying it is necessarily a deal killer, just that people might have this expectation based on other competing product lines.

The fact remains that at $700.00 USD, the Kemper Player might still be the most effective small form factor all-in-one guitar processor that a gigging musician can buy (even without a screen)

Even though it is an imperfect FULL KPA backup device, it is still BY FAR the most effective small format backup device / throw-and-go rig out there for a full KPA user.

I agree that Kemper has been nothing but outstanding in their product support. They have gone totally and completely over-and-beyond to give KPA users new features and support their premium product better than any company I have delt with .... except VHT when Steve Freytte still owned it (called me personally on a Saturday to help me bias new tubes for a gig!).

JCW308 may be going overboard in his verbal lashing of Kemper as a company, but I do believe that the customer base in general may have a significant number of people who expect that a Kemper Player will essentially be a KPA with some limitations.

I think that the biggest fundamental gripe is going to be the lack of efx.

Competitors like Fractal and Line 6 reduce the physical capabilities (as has the Kemper Player). People expect this. Removing the ability to create profiles ... well, it IS called the PLAYER. Fewer EFX slots? Same with Fractal and Line 6 (although in a slightly different way).

The difference between these companies and Kemper is that neither Fractal or Line 6 limit the quality or type of efx you can put within the limited number of slots (or processing) that the smaller unit supplies.

I guess what I am saying is that JCW308 is likely not an anomaly in his expectations.

Those of us here are Kemper heads and we have read every scrap of information available about the highly awaited Kemper Player. All of us knew before the first user review came out exactly what it did and didn't have in it.

I suspect most people will see it is a small 3 button KPA and expect that it will sound like it.

I will say that I am warming up to the idea of the Player not having a screen. Shoot, I use a tablet for my 40 channel digital mixer and it is way more complex than the KPA to operate. I suspect that phone and tablet screens on a mic stand are going to become much more normal to see as people use them for adjusting their IEM mix on stage. No reason a guitar player can't use this for a screen for his Kemper Player when used live.

Time will tell if the lack of premium verbs and delays are an issue in the general market.

What I can say is that I was really looking for the Player to be a Throw-And-Go backup for my KPA Rack. Less efx slots I could survive on, but missing effects completely? I think others that rely on morphing will similarly be put off (I don't use morphing live ..... yet). Being able to import/export performances would also have been a requirement for this (with the noted exception of fewer efx slots).

It is possible that even with its limitations, that the Kemper Player is still the best KPA backup. It can, after all, utilize the same profiles and rigs (with less efx slots). If the self-imposed firmware limitations were removed (all efx restored and morph capability restored), I think every gigging KPA owner would wind up buying one.

All of this feature discussion is debatable. The idea that Kemper is not good at supporting its customers? Just plain silly.

Quote from V8guitar

I use the imprints as I prefer that to FR mode, but as per usual people have different views.

Its certainly not a gimmick as it has a definite effect on the sound - its obviously to reduce the FRFR issue of it not sounding realistic whilst still retaining the flex of the different profiles ( guitar cabs mask the amp sounds IMO).

However, as mentioned above, this is only for monitoring. I am finding that more venues are getting used to digital solutions and I'm using less and less backline and relying on foldback PA monitoring. I tend to take my Kabinet and end up turning it down or off

Yep! Me too.

I am very content with my IEM sound using the Kemper direct into the PA. The only thing I miss out on is the string feedback interaction with the amp (which is seriously needed if need to induce feedback on the strings ..... which I don't most of the time).

If you need to get your resonant feedback going, a Kabinet used as a foldback pointed at you on stage is a great option.

It's strange how my ears have adjusted over time. I have been using IEM's since the mid 90's. Before that, like most, I had amps on stage along with a bunch of wedge monitors (what a nightmare!). Sure don't miss all the ringing and feedback ..... or the carrying and loading of all that heavy gear :).

Quote from aamefford

Thanks all. I’ve read several folks say they use their kabinets in FR mode rather than the speaker imprints. This kind of makes sense, it *should* be the best route to reproduce the rig as profiled. The imprints seem like they might be kinda like using a guitar cab fitted with a particular speaker, but with more variety of speakers. I guess I’m trying to figure out if the speaker imprints are useful, or do they boil down to an interesting gimmick?

It depends.

Kemper was originally designed to capture and reproduce a mic'ed tube amp with a cab. The idea being that this is what the audience hears through the PA.

The hole in this logic was that this sound isn't what the guitar player was hearing on stage (amp in the room). As a result, Kemper (and others) made solutions that would provide the guitar player with the "amp in the room" sound on-stage while delivering a different FOH result (that sounded good through the PA).

IMO the real issue is that the "amp in the room" sound is ONLY important for the guitar player. The mic'ed amp sound is what is spread to the audience through the PA.

So ..... if you play in a band that relies on the sound from the amps on stage to fill the venue, than something like the Kemper Kabinet that duplicates the "amp in the room" sound is pretty important.

If you mic your cab and the PA provides the sound for the FOH (most more successful bands do this) then the local "amp in the room" sound is just for the guitar player.

If you just play for your own enjoyment, again, the Kabinet route is a very good one.

Over the years, I have grown to love the sound of the mic'ed tube amp sound and the "amp-in-the-room" is now piercing and unpleasant in comparison.

Note: Bands that rely on "Amp-in-the-room" stage volume also have an issue with balance of sound in the venue since these cabs are very directional and blast one side of the stage while the other side the guitar volume is very weak in the audience. The answer to the problem is NOT to add more cabs by the way

An interesting question for me is:

1) If the additional features were to be added (paid) how effective a product would the player be (relative to the market competitors)

2) Is a phone app on a mic stand an acceptable replacement for the stomp having a display? As one of you pointed out, can you REALLY see the stomp display from a standing position? I routinely have either a phone or a tablet on the mic stand to control my monitor mix (and sometimes the FOH mix). Having an app as a display screen for a Kemper Player doesn't seem like much of a stretch really. It is something to think about.

When I first moved from an analog mixer to a digital rack mixer, I was very afraid of mixing from a tablet. Now ..... I can't imagine doing it any other way. Is it possible that the era of stomp displays being on the floor is near an end?

A fully functional Kemper player with a remote display for $800.00 would still be quite a gig rig IMO.

I am familiar with the problem.

You come up with an idea for a product, you forecast the units you believe you can sell in the time frame you can sell them in. You use the most conservative estimate you can so the board of directors will believe you......... then it comes time to order the parts. This is where small companies get twitchy.

Lets say you have a BOM (bill of materials) per unit (including assembly and testing and packaging) of $200.00 and you think conservatively that you can sell 15,000 units in the next 6 months. Do the math and you are asking the owner to pony over 3M dollars. Remember also that because parts are still tough to come by, you are likely looking at a build lead time of around 4-6 months....... so if you get it wrong, and you sell out fast, it takes quite some time to build more.

You can start buying parts from "part sharks" who will charge you significantly more for the parts which will eat away at your margins costing you millions in revenue, or you can wait it out.

Within a few years, it is pretty easy to anticipate your sales rate, but early on ...... not so much. This will be especially true for Kemper in this market where they are suddenly well below the 1K mark for a product and have significantly a larger number of potential buyers.

Anyway, that is my guess.

Quote from Finally

Until the competition truly enables me to nail the feel and sound of a tube amp I don't think the direct comparison is relevant.

... and for those of us that KNOW that the KPA offers superior tube tonal characteristics, this will be enough in many cases.

For the open market where everyone says they offer authentic tube tone, other factors (like a color LCD screen) may come into consideration.

Someone posted a couple of pages ago that a phone or tablet display on the mic stand is better than a little screen at your feet. That actually may make sense. I use a tablet for my digital mixer. It wouldn't be a stretch to have a phone or tablet on the mic stand to give you the graphical interface feedback about what bank and rig you are on (and maybe even information about what is near you on this bank).

I look forward to seeing how much Kemper decides to charge for the upgrade(s) to add the "premium effects" to the unit.

Quote from piotrmaj

I don't really think that LCD is all that important. I have KPA since 2016 and apart of short periods of time when I do experiment with FXs I noticed that I constantly use one performance - 5 sounds in total which cover 100% of my needs (granted, I use morphing on some of them so the actual number is a bit higher - 8). Using Rig Manager on iPad or Mac is sufficient. I suspect that large group of users has exactly the same usage pattern. You can compare this to modern digital mixer market - in addition to LCD-equipped mixers many manufacturers offer "blind" mixer with you can only operate from computer or tablet - and guess what - they work perfectly fine - even better because instead of 5" screen you can have 12" screen and work comfortably, saving some $$$.

I'm really curious about this paid update, CK mentioned - how much will it be? Right now, without all FX and morphing using Player as a backup is a bit PITA, at least for me. But if Player + FX/morphing-upgrade would be sold for less than $1000 - I think it would be the best unit on the market.

I also tend to stick with a single performance of 5 rigs for MOST songs. I have another 4-5 performances I use for specialty songs ..... as an example, U2 Streets, Money for Nothin, Go your own way background, etc. Songs that have a specific sound that is not normally used in a general way anywhere else, but is essential to get the vibe of a specific song.

Still, just 5 rigs with 3 buttons and NO LCD to tell you which one you are about to switch to? That seems like a tough sell live.

Ok, CK has been nothing but remarkable in his transparency. He didn't need to post anything at all. He could have left it to his employees. It is impressive for the owner of a company to post a reply to anything. It's a good thing that CK participates in threads here.

Next, over the break I have watched a few videos on the use of the new player. I would like to re-assess my criticism.

The Kemper Player is not the product I wanted. It is for a different market (my conclusion). I complained that the product should have only 3 foot switches and a decent sized color LCD. This would be the perfect product for ME as a backup unit for my Rack AND as a throw-and-go rig for small get togethers.

After watching several video's, the Kemper Player seems more aimed at someone that has the player on the desk in front of them vs on the floor playing a gig. In the "on-the-desk" mode of operation, suddenly all the physical controls make a great deal of sense.

I guess I will have to keep hoping for a different kind of Kemper product in this 3-button form factor. One that has:

1) Color LCD for managing rigs in a performance live (would still like to use performances as well)

2) Only foot switches as physical controls (maybe a master output knob)

Sadly, this seems like it is too close to the current product and Kemper has determined that the desktop usage model is more important than the stomp box model.

Quote from jlooknyc

I thought it will be great for me as a backup but it will be just to at least have some sounds if my stage or rack stop working.
Missing the slots is already a problem but for me more missing some of the effects. Most of my sounds have the studio EQ included for example. With some other effects missing I can use maybe 10% of my current rigs as they are. Some I can't use at all (with Pitch Shifter for example).
I use about 120 performances live in rotation at the moment with up to 5 rigs each so changing all of them or creating them again from scratch is too much work.
So at the moment as it is it will be just a small amp if I play with others for fun or a very basic backup.
I hope they announce the (paid) upgrade soon. Otherwise I will send it most likely back within the 30 days.

Use case 1: High Functional Backup to full KPA

I think it would be OK with only 4 FX slots, but missing the actual EFX is a serious problem. In this use case, the idea is to get along with a lower spec'd device, but to have on-hand the original sounds you had in the full unit (with physical limitations as well as fx slot limitations). The work load is now to create custom rigs that approximate your full KPA rig. Doable, but not a home run in marketing IMO. Additionally, as some have stated, working pro's will likely have a full KPA backup. As used KPA's are going for under 1K right now, it seems like a tough sell to buy an $800.00 lower end replacement.

Use case 2: First time buyer of a small 3 button portable all-in-one guitar processor

I believe that the missing color LCD will make it a tough sell against the Line 6 Stomp HX. Yes, the player has advantages over the Stomp HX: Better tones, efx spill-over, free rigs via rig manager, etc. It just seems like it is a tough sell without the LCD. In my mind, I thought this was the biggest market for a 3 button device, so this is where I disagree with the lack of the LCD.

Use case 3: Amp module within a pedalboard

I hadn't really considered this in my original thoughts on a Kemper "mini", but there are some that this is how they roll. Ok, so in this use case, the musician has other efx pedals and the primary purpose of the KPA Player is to act as the amp tone. In this market, the main competitor is Tone X. Yes, it has considerably less EFX capabilities than the KPA Player, but when using it in a pedal board, I think that isn't a big issue. Tone X is considerably less expensive at $400 USD. In fact, it really makes a play for the first time buyer of a small 3 button portable all-in-one guitar processor by having some efx AND it has a minimal LED screen (better than nothing).

Use case 4: Small, inexpensive, backup for any high end rig

This is where I would likely buy. I don't gig for a living and have no desire to have a full KPA backup (both $ wise and size wise). Since I am quite taken with the KPA (I have a rack and FC), and I have more disposable income than most, I might decide on the Player, but where it would have been a slam dunk if it had an LCD, now I would defiantly go try out the ToneX and Stomp HX. In all 3 cases, this would be a "limp through the night" setup where I would try to get through with a clean, a crunch and a heavy tone. It would never be something I used all the time.

I don't think that it is unusual for people to think that KPA missed the mark here. It is an interesting mix of features. My personal belief is that Kemper was more worried about savaging their own market than they were about devastating someone else's market. I think a product having a decent LCD and 4 fx slots with a full KPA effects complement at $800 would have put a serious dent in Line 6 Stomp and Fractal FM3.

FWIW, I do product management for a living. I haven't researched this particular market (other than what I can see from competitive analysis), so there is always the possibility that information I am not aware of makes the KPA Player a more potent product than it appears to me.

Note: I don't believe for one minute that Kemper isn't going to sell quite a few of these. There will be plenty of people that want one in the near future. It won't be until the shoot-outs start taking place that people will start making longer term determinations of where the product lies in the market.

Quote from CelticGibson

If you want a full featured Profiler, you can buy it like everyone who has one did. Don't expect to get a full featured profiler for half the price. It's basic business practice 101.. Not hard to understand...

The form factor reduction alone makes it uncompetitive with it's bigger brethren. I think the lack of efx (not slots) options only hinders sales in the open market where the new player will be up against the stomp hx and other similarly priced options.

This is only my option.