I still prefer having the small Kemper FC with a single Ethernet cable running out on stage vs the relatively cable mess associated with having the Stage at my feet.
I will wait a little longer for bootup for that. YMMV.
Posts by OneEng1
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I have both, with sames rigs. The stage boot is way faster. A guy from Kemper told me the hardware is not the same.
Surprising. I would think that the processor and DSP would be the same.
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You would almost need 2 columns below each button to show what each effect toggle state was at power on. The user would then assume that all the states assigned would switch when you press the button.
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That is an excellent suggestion
How would you track the "On" state vs the "Off" state on the GUI? ie, it is possible to turn one effect ON and turn the next one OFF with a single press. How would you suggest showing this on the GUI?
The current shot you show doesn't show which effect is on which side of the toggle.
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I Get it. While it would be a great workflow to have a graphical representation of the FC, then assign multiple functions to each button (and input), that is quite a bit of work.
The current implementation is workable, and WAY better than doing it without Rig Manager.
I personally feel all the money I spent on this release has been worth it 😄.
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The unification was a necessary step. It makes more sense to roll it out now instead of holding it back, just to avoid getting the "I'm underwhelmed" comment. Let's face it: It doesn't matter what we do. Somebody will always be unhappy with it
Definitely. It would have been what I call "Stupid Squared" to move forward with a non-unified release that would have taken twice the validation effort and twice the integration effort.
Also, I have seen firmware projects where (with the best of intentions) a split was allowed to persist. It later ended up costing >$1M in effort to resolve (2 years later).
No one ever "expects" it to last very long. Everyone wants to ignore the growing issue. No one wants to explain to the Owner where his $1M went when it is time to pay the piper, so it is better to just do the right thing in the first place
You can't please all the people all of the time. Kemper does a pretty good job of pleasing quite a lot of people.
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It's a bit of apples and oranges. The basic reverb on the Tonex units are probably fine in terms of having some basic ambience to work with when practicing direct, especially if you were to use headphones, which only the bigger 3-footwsitch Tonex and the Player have. But not as an outright replacement for a good quality versatile reverb. If you wanted to use the little Tonex on a pedal board, it is of course quite small and cheap. However, with the practical live limitation of having a single foot switch and lack of effects, you will invariably need to buy or at least make space on your board for more pedals to cover things the baby Tonex (and for that matter the original Tonex) don't do. You are also more drive pedal dependent on the baby Tonex as you can't quickly access more than two captures. So no net space saved on your pedal board. No money saved either unless you already own pedals that cover the things the baby Tonex can't do but the Player can.
That was my thought as well.
By the time you put the ToneX on a pedal board, added a good verb and a good delay and a good compressor and a good eq, you would be larger, less flexible, and more expensive than the Player.
My personal thought is that today, the biggest competitor to the Kemper Player is a used Kemper toaster or rack which can be had for around 1K :).
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If you insist on constraining the generic term of modeling to one method (component modeling),
then yeah. Profiling is not component modeling. Christoph said he was lazy and wanted an automated way to do it. That’s obvious.
Allow the term to be even slightly generic to permit other methodologies or ways to get a similar result - and you get Captures or Profiles or whatever marketing term isn’t taken.
They imitate, emulate, mimic, copy, replicate…..whatever. They all *model* the sound of an amplifier.
It’d be like saying a 3D printed plastic car isn’t a model because it wasn’t injection molded. Or made from wood or metal or whatever.
Modeling has always (to me) meant attempting to model with digital processing what the circuit was doing in the tube amp (including the tube).
Profiling and capturing have always (to me) meant comparing the input and output of an actual amp and using it to recreate its behavior (not modeling and two different approaches)
Both are digital simulations or emulators of a real amp.
It is still irrelevant as the ToneX, as nearly perfect of a capture device as it is, still does not have the workflow, or additional overall processing and efx needed to sound as good as the Player.
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OneEng1 its pedantic, but…
Profiling is not just across a range of frequencies. That’s how on IR works. Profiling considers both frequencies and amplitudes, thus capturing the amp and cab response to every variation in playing and pickup configuration.
My Tonex sounds quite good to me, but my Player sounds better. That’s just my opinion…
Agree.
As I stated earlier, all that matters is how it sounds and reacts. How it achieves it is not important!
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I'm not sure what "find an automated method, rather than modeling amps by hand." means to others. To me that says "Profiling models amps.....automatically."
It's fundamentally different than traditional modeling. Yes. It's automated.
Whereas the tonestacks for Liquid Profiles are (apparently) done by manual means. Since they specifically state they're modeled.
modeling an amp is an attempt to duplicate the analog circuit elements with digital models. Then a user can tweak the circuit to get different sounds.
Profiling or capture uses the idea of capturing the system response of any system by comparing ONLY the input and the output across a range of frequencies (like an impulse response but using a frequency sweep and impulse analysis and likely other methods).
Capturing well is likely a much more difficult task than modeling any single amp, but much much less work than modeling every amp with every setup on the planet.
As an aside, based on analysis, the ToneX does a more accurate job of capturing the amp exactly than the KPA, but still falls light years behind it in overall sound quality and gig workflow?
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Using Christoph’s own words….profiling *is* modeling:
No, it is not. That isn't what his statement meant at all.
The various algorithms and routing needed to cover every amp with modeling was considered too difficult and clunky. As a result, Kemper decided to do something different (Profiling). This is fundamentally different than modeling.
Now, my belief as an engineer is that CK actually does have a generic model that he uses to tweak the capture/profile; however, that doesn't change the fact that the KPA fundamentally operates different than a modeler.
Note: ToneX and QC are also capture and model tools vs. pure modeling.
All of this is basically crap anyway. Who cares? How does it sound, and how well does the workflow match your needs? These are the important questions. Who cares how it manages to do it?
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I don't think that is the audience it is after. The pedal itself does not really process effects, other then reverb and compressor and that is minimal. From my prospective the ToneX is only meant to be the amp and cab for a pedalboard with your analog effects. Set up like that it really works exceptionally well.
I guess I hadn't thought about it like that before. I once had an ADA rack mount preamp, but quickly scratched the idea as the pedalboard plus preamp combo was the same complexity and a tube head and efx board.
When I decided to simplify my rig, all-in-one was all I looked at.
Now, I would like to have a mini rig with most of the capabilities as my kpa rack and fc.
I am watching the player mature, but also watching FM3 and Line6. ToneX just doesn't tick enough boxes in my case.
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I think that before ToneX can be considered a competitor to Kemper Player, it will need to greatly up its game in efx processing.
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The Kemper Stage, Rack and Toaster (with FC), are definitely in a different league of a gig rig than either the Kemper Player or the QC (or any floor processor having few buttons, or buttons placed close together).
I find that the Kemper Rack with FC is the height of gigging bliss. All the power you could ever ask for and a single cable that powers and connects the FC to the Kemper Rack to keep the cable clutter out from your feet.
I was baffled by the QC introduction. Surely they handed this thing out to beta testers that actually GIG for a living? A little simple competitive analysis should also have warned them that there really is a minimum distance between foot switches needed for ergonomics when gigging. A shame really. It is a really nice unit in most other regards.
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I have been in engineering for around 40 years now. It is my experience that ALL engineering departments are "resource constrained". It's like saying "fish swim".
Engineers are expensive. Embedded engineers (especially good ones) are very expensive. No one has a bunch of them sitting around waiting for something to do. They are ALWAYS busy .... as are most engineers be they firmware coders, hardware designers, server or client applications.
When a new product is rolled out, first, the engineers are pressed for release. Then release has issues that are now ALL emergencies requiring nights and weekends, then post release the rash of crap you somehow didn't catch in validation needs emergency attention.
This is not abnormal IME. In this product release phase, engineering doesn't have nearly the bandwidth they do when simply adding features or fixing bugs in scheduled maintenance release .... and as a result, new features and scheduled bug releases slow for a bit while the engineering staff gets a well deserved break from the crappy high stress 12-16 hour days they have been doing.
It is also my experience that one "aww crap" erases 100 ad-a-boy's. Customers memories are short indeed.
So from one engineer "OneEng1" to the others in Kemper, hope things settle down for you soon so you can resume a normal(ish) life again :). I for one appreciate all you do and the very hard work you put in to bring these amazing products to us. @CK, let the engineering staff and project management that there are those of us out here that know how much blood, sweat, tears, late nights and weekends went into this new product and that it is appreciated!
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The current plan for Kemper is to unify the OS. Meaning - one file to update any Profiler. They've said as much and their versioning of the kaos.bin file supports this.
I don't think the Player is nearly as different as some believe.
Possibly so. It is actually more different than I would have chosen to make it (ie, no screen, only 4 slots); however, it seems that the ENGINE is the same making it mostly an easy lift to create a unified ROM image.
The fact remains that it is a Kemper at its core, just no built in screen and 4 fewer EFX slots. I believe that the paid upgrade will fill in the missing features. This should make it an ideal throw-and-go Kemper solution as well as the perfect backup for its bigger brothers.
Note: Once they do get "one ROM to rule them all", the overall team effort will go down from where it is now; however, each release will be incrementally more work than it was before. I suspect this will be easily manageable within the existing Kemper team. Then we can get back to our regularly scheduled slow, but impressive release schedule
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They need to make new revenue. I have no issue with them getting the player out and dusted. It's what I would do if I were part of the management team at Kemper.
I find it difficult to complain about not getting any more new features that I haven't paid for ;).
... but to answer the thread question, I suspect they are stretched thin after the launch of the player. If it were me, I would focus on stabilizing that product as my number 1 concern. My #2 concern would be getting the firmware update out for the player that I could also charge for.
I am just spoiled (as are the rest of you) with all the free updates Kemper has provided over the years. If this were Fractal, they would already have released 2 new hardware platforms and announced the end of support for the older ones.
But even the Fractal model is better than what we used to have. I never got an update on my tube amp or any of my pedals. If I wanted new tones ...... more money ;).
I am sure (based on past company behavior) CK will continue to provide updates for the current flagship product line (Toaster, Rack, and Stage). I suspect there will be a lull in the rate of updates as CK didn't likely hire a completely new team just for the Player (that would be silly). We should all just cool our jets and relax .... and play our super cool KPA while CK gets things settled down.
After all, we all want Kemper to continue to be profitable and support our KPA's far into the future!
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I use the new reverbs and delays almost exclusively in my Rack. While I can likely get by with 4 efx slots, I can't live without the new verbs and delays.
I am warming up to the idea of using a phone app as my screen. After all, I do operate an X32 Rack with a tablet and it has way more going on than a guitar processor.
I might have to buy a player once the efx package is updated as it would then make a very nice "throw and go" solution as well as a great backup to my main rig. I'll likely never give up my Rack and FC as this combo is just a fantastic gig rig and keeps the cable clutter away from my feet unlike a dedicated floor board solution.
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As others have said, get your FOH sound in the context of the full band playing good FIRST. What the audience hears is the most important part by a long shot.
After that, work on your stage monitoring tone. Most digital mixers have the ability to eq the aux sends so that your monitor mix can be adjusted to sound good to you. If you don't have a digital mixer, then you can use an eq pedal prior to the input of the monitor speaker that you can use to eq your own monitor mix.
As others have said, lots of times (most of the time) what sounds good in head phones while you are practicing by yourself, disappears in the mix OR just sounds bad in the mix.
I also agree with others that my KPA out-front sound is light years better than it ever was with a boutique tube amp and a microphone. One tool I have used to achieve this is the use of a digital mixer (X32 Rack) and a virtual sound check. A virtual sound check records your band in multiple tracks while playing live, then sends those signals back after the fact into the mixer. This lets you sit out front and tweak your individual guitar sound in context of the entire band through the mixer.
Another path to the same thing should be possible by using something called re-amping in the KPA. In this case, you would be using the recording of your raw guitar sound to send it back through the KPA while you adjust the KPA tone until it sounds best in the mix. Note, you would have to use virtual sound check on a digital mixer to get the rest of the band in context, or get the rest of the band to play along with your re-amped sound.
Hope this helps!
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There is no magic pixey dust that creates "feel". It is all science. In electrical engineering the input to output function is called the transfer function. The KPA attempts to capture the transfer function and reproduce it. If it does this well, and the speaker can reproduce the output well, the result will not be distinguishable from the original because it IS the original.
Guitar tube amps had several big design items that are difficult to reproduce:
1) The distortion pattern of the original signal (I think that Kemper has done a very good job of capturing this even across different input levels)
2) The damping and powering of the output drive section
3) The speaker in the cab was grossly non-linear and often created distortion of its own at different volumes.
To me, the biggest difference in the "amp in the room" is that the "amp in the room" is way louder than most FRFR speakers. IMO, no guitar player has any business (on most stages) operating at this volume level. It is therefore only important when you are alone with your amp (and your wife isn't at home) and you can crank it up and get that "amp in the room" feel