Posts by mtmartin71

For anyone else who likes playing through their powered Kab and has these profiles...

I was/have been spending lots of time getting direct profiles to sound their best into a powered Kemper Kab while balancing that sound with what goes through the cab sim. I was using Ownhammer Rockbox speakers...typically Classic A5...and using the MattFig DIs on the latest Liquid stuff.

I decided today to take the exact same profiles...a DI version and the equivalent studio version...and compare them with the exact same amp settings and speaker imprints. Kind of surprised me. The studio profiles sounded more alive through the entire EQ spectrum vs the DI versions. The Studio through Kab sounded very natural and the amp EQ settings I arrived at were very much in order to what I would use on a real amp. I could probably dial the amp differently for either type of profile, but as a starting point, studio profiles through a powered Kab with imprints sounded better right off the bat than the DI equivalents through the Kab + imprints. Added bonus...you can send the studio profile direct. FWIW...I'm setting my Directivity at around 6.5. I think that plays a large bit in how it sounds too. So many ways to dial it up...in a good way.

Any other Kab users run this comparison? Did you feel the same way? This is likely MattFig specific as I'm sure it's different with other DIs given there are different capture methods, but this was a revelation to me. I already liked the profiles...now I'm loving them.

Quote from alligatorlizard

btw, Helix is my 2nd choice after Fractal (which I still haven't actually bought yet... still busy...). Not sure I understand what you're saying about EQing by sight vs sound though?? As in, you have trouble dialing in amp or modeller's EQ stack at night, or was that a mis-type??

Fixed

How does the slope of the EQ on the main output compare to the slope of the EQ of the Studio EQ as a block and with the "Steep" buttons checked?

I think the way it works is "Steep" cuts off more in faster fashion so your values can be less pronounced in clearing the garbage frequencies for live and loud use. Not checking the steep on the Studio EQ block is akin to how the Hi-Lo cuts work on the main output EQ? If so, I think you'd have more pronounced cuts vs the other method since it's a subtler effect?

Example:

I'm doing 100Hz cut on the low and 7000Hz cut on the high end with steep checked on a Studio EQ block, would I cut around 120Hz on the low and 5000Hz on the high to get a similar effect on the main output EQ? I get turned around on these concepts but I think this is what I'm hearing.

Well...to update you and myself, 2 things

1) I did find that Celestion Dark 57 IRs work well with the MattFig DIs which are bass forward. FWIW, his studio profiles are not. I was using OH RockBox B3 classic IRs. Turns out the Celestions have less "ass" by default and while they are bright (like Yorks are for me), the Dark version keeps the highs and lows in check for the MattFig profiles. Other DI profiles behave differently

2) I picked up a Helix LT to replace a Helix Stomp XL. With some EQ, I find I'm really digging dialing in direct tones with that set up. I'm using the LT live in my new band when going hybrid...direct to board and also through a Fryette Power Station to OS 2x12 on stage.

I found that it took me some time to understand the nuances of the LT and how to get my sound there. With the Kemper, I think stumbling back onto the Celestions (which I dismissed long ago) made those MattFig DIs work great.

Maybe more than anything, I get caught up in EQ'ing by sight (what I think it should be from amps) vs sound and I kill too much time dialing that way. Thinking more on this...there are SO many ways to EQ in the digital amp world that you can chase your tail very fast.

Quote from Milenium

I think there are no studio profiles. They sound all the same with my Kemper Kone Cabinet when an Imprint is active. I assume they are merged profiles.

Interesting...would be cool to get a confirmation. On his '71 Friedman modified Marshall, he advertises "Complete DI and 4 Studio Cabs through the Normal and Bright inputs." Doesn't mean they aren't merged, but it's not clear.

One question for you Mattfig

Definition settings...are you upping those post profiling? I like that 6-8 range myself which is why I think I'm digging your studio profiles a lot. If the definition gets down below 5, it starts sounding a bit too round and warm for my ear. I notice a lot of vintage JCM800 and Marshall JMP, etc profiles can have defintion in the 4-5 range from profiling. I do know the Friedman profiles I've tried are normally all the way up at 10 defintion.

I wanted to come back around and update/change my opinion.

I bought the JCM800, Friedman modded Superlead, and just recently, the BE100. I was mainly after the direct profiles and was finding the bass too present in those. Since getting the Kab, I had been really forcing direct profiles and adding my own IRs. I decided to go back and spend some time with the studio profiles on my MattFig LP packs and that's where it's at. The choices and sounds...all really good and the bass (and other frequencies) are all where you'd expect them on a real amp. They compare as favorably with any of the great studio profiles out there...especially for the Marshall-style folks. FWIW, I tried the studio profiles with the Kab and with some slight EQ tweaks on the monitor EQ, it's right where I want it. I imagine his direct profiles may set up a bit better for a true amp/cab (vs Kab) approach but I use my Helix LT through a Fryette PS2 when going that route. When direct, I'm using the Kemper.

Kudos to MattFig as far as pumping out all the great liquid profiles and a lot of great amps.

I'd love to find some direct profiles that are ground up Liquified, but are direct. I prefer to use IRs and right now, I'm favoring the Ownhammer classic rock (4x12 M25) and the live use version of that as that's my primary use case, playing live with the Kemper.

Matt Fig had a few that I tried. A Friedman modified Plexi and a JCM800. What I found is that the low end was pretty pervasive...to the point I needed to dial it out with an additional EQ and I don't like to do that. I'm talking the Direct profiles. The full profiles were a little better.

For reference, one of my favorite direct profiles ever is a Tone Junkie 72 Marshall Superlead on Channel 1. The low end feels almost perfect and the gain structure seems tighter. None of that bassy, wooly stuff when the gain is up. I don't know the original settings though to retro it. I still use it though.

I also like Reampzone's direct profiles and I have retro'd those because he posted his settings for them. I do like the JCM800s OK. The low end is on the lighter side but very usable when turned up a little more than I'd do on the real thing.

Live Ready Sound has a few direct liquid profiles of a JMP 2203 and a Soldano that are great. The low end is more prominent than the TJ or Reampzone profiles, but very tweakable and useable.

It's times like these that I feel like I should go back to modeling as I don't have amps to profile the exact sound I want. But, the liquid stuff has helped keep me going with the Kemper because I'm so used to it. Just gets painful trying to fine the right profiles for the exact sound I want.

Quote from Kellerblues

Nope, the OD120

https://equipboard.com/items/orange-overdrive-od120

Ah...gotcha

Quote from Kellerblues

That should be the OD100

Just looking at this again...did you mean the OR100? I didn't see an OD100 but maybe that was an older model?

FWIW, the OR100 has two channels but one of them is TMB and the other is simply TB which is different than the two channels on the Overdose eq stacks. Both are TMB. Anyway...kind of proves my point. Shouldn't need to guess. They could document it better (I think).

Curious if there has been any mention on when/if Kemper will add more amps to the Liquid EQ options? I'm interested in the Jubilee and Rockerverb...in particular. Both pretty popular amps IMO.

Related...if they do add more, it seems like some kind of profile EQ stack management tree or structure might help navigate the growing list. Not sure what is possible though.

Lastly...many of the eq stack options are fairly self-explanatory but some are not...like the Orange Overdose 1 & 2. I think those are the channels of the AD30 given there are only bass, middle, treble...but I don't know for sure. Would be nice if the documentation existed to say the name of the amp/amp channel that eq stack represents. I think if you say "based on" in documentation, that's safe from a copyright perspective based on what I see from other companies.

Quote from patrick2099

Really cool he included the pdf with the settings.

In my opinion, it really should be the standard for any Kemper profiler going forward. Wish more had done it previously too as it would have really opened up more profiles to retro.

Do you do merged or direct or all Studio?

Quote from Kellerblues

But it saves per Rig/Performance, opposite to the Monitor out one that is only global

Yes...right. I guess it's a matter of where do you want to account for volume boost on a solo? If I was using a boost or EQ post amp to push the volume (not the gain if in front), then I could morph that and leave rig volume to account for the two different device output scenarios. Right now though, I'm using a post amp/cab bloick EQ just for a subtle push vs. a full lead with some push on the front end too. I'm doing that type of lead by morphing in a TS style up front and moving the volume up with rig volume.

Quote from Kellerblues

That's what the Rig Volume is there for

Don't know about Wheresthedug but I morph my rig volume for my lead boosts so that wouldn't be a good spot to account for output volume differences in terms of connected devices...for me. Also, I don't think Rig volumes store in Output Presets, do they? I could be wrong.

Quote from Burkhard

The wattage protection algorithm only kicks in, while KEMPER Kone Mode is enabled.

Make sure to fully crank up the pot at the KEMPER Power Kabinet in order to avoid, that the protection kicks in too early.

One thing I discovered today that's a slight bummer...the monitor output level doesn't save by Output preset. I'm using the Kemper in one of two ways in terms of the monitor output. Option 1 (vast majority of the time) = a Kemper Kab where I have the Kemper Kab checked and the monitor output level at -8.0db. Option 2 is where I'm connecting to a Fryette Power Station and 2x12 guitar cabinet. In that case, I want Kemper Kab unchecked (which does save in the output preset I set up) and the monitor output level at -4.0db. If I forget this on the back and forth (almost assured), it's not a huge issue though. Just kills some of my headroom/output on the Fryette.

Ideally, it would be cool if you could drop all the output settings into the performance and have that change when you select a particular performance, but I did read another thread on this and understand that's not doable in this generation of design since the output settings sit at a global level.

This answers a question that I had. I was running my monitor out at -7.0 db with my Kemper Kab. Occasionally, it would just change on me and get quieter and I had no idea why. Then I'd go into the Kemper and see the volume got dropped back further. Now I know it's an algorithm thing.

Related, if you turn the Kemper Kone off, then I assume you can set to 0 (if you want) for full throughput? The use case, in that instance, is running into my Fryette Power Station Line In for an amp/cab approach. That's a 50W tube amp. I don't need the full 50w honestly, but if I did want to take advantage of that, seems like I need to set my monitor output closer to 0.0...assuming it will let me keep it there with the Kab unchecked?

I'll try again...why have the Hi/Lo shelves on the cabinet module effect the main output AND the monitor (even w/ the Kone in use)? Doesn't make sense to me. I'd want the ability at the cab level to tailor my hi/lo cuts for each cab and amp going to the main and keep the monitor as is...because the imprint is already doing it's own EQing to emulate the speaker.

Thoughts?

Quote from Kemper Support #1

The filters in the cab module will affect the sound of the monitor output signal even if Kone mode is activated and "monitor cab off" is active.

I guess I don't understand the design decision here for Kab/imprint users. If the Kab speaker imprint is the simulated EQ curve of real speaker, why filter that further with high pass and low pass filters? I don't typically do that with a real amp and cab. I do often filter an IR or FRFR source though and while you can do that with the main output, it's pretty advantageous to be able to change those cutoffs based on the speaker or amp combo. And, why would I want to make that same EQ rolloff choice for FRFR on a Kab that's supposed to be behaving like a real speaker? Why couldn't the per cab HP/LP filter be limited to the main output?

For those of you who are using the Kab and imprint (via monitor output) to monitor yourself and sending the main output to the board, do you see a reason or need to further roll off the simulated speaker with HP/LP filters?

For MV amps, there is also the notion of where is the master set. You could have multiple flavors there since there is no way to capture than in the LP process or settings. Then you get an amp like the BE100 with C45, Saturation, etc., etc. or the Soldano which I think has depth? Some of those amps can get complicated so more profiles are welcome. But, in general, I agree with the OP.

In general, I understand what the OP is getting at. The other factor is being able to get samples going forward. Before, a commercial profiler could give you a couple of snapshots of the amp to entice. Now, you get the LP profile and you'd mostly have the amp. The problem I see despite the more realistic EQ from LPs, profiling is still and art form and craft and people have different methods. I get some profilers where there is too much low end frequency inherent where you can't dial it out without an EQ slot and a lot of teaking. I get some others where there it's inherently thin and nothing beefs it up naturally. And, this is different for live vs recording or playing at home application. In those cases, like with the generic Kemper EQ, if the profiler isn't close to what you want to hear right out of the gate, you're probably not going to get there. It's a bummer and makes me think hard about going back to modeling again. The IR dollar suck that was Fractal became the profile dollar suck that is Kemper.