Advice on bringing amp sound forward

1st Official Post
    The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Head/Rack

    Have used a Mk1 Profiler powered head about 18mo now and still on learning curve. I use commercial profiles from several of the better-regarded sources then tweak (endlessly)

    For lack of a better term the tones from several otherwise-amazing profiles sound "back" in the final output, coming from either the K cab or my PA, and this is more common with gainy profiles and maybe some stompboxes like Kemper Drive options. I do play stereo. Using Rig Manager, what's your reliable way to bring sounds "forward"?

    I've had limited luck using Direct Mix under the Amp, and Pre-Delay under Reverb, is there another tool I'm overlooking? if I use Pure Cabinet it isn't much (2.0 maybe) and that doesn't seem to affect this. Stereo 100->150 not much diff. Thanks kindly.

    Pushing the mids is what brings a guitar forward (besides volume) - look at an EQ or booster in stomps to wake up your pickups. Using an EQ before the amp can make a $10 pickup sound like a $200 one (even though some of those $200 ones sound like poop too). Also use the Definition parameter of the amp - this one parameter helps make a guitar fit in a mix correctly.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Edited once, last by BayouTexan (June 24, 2026 at 3:59 PM).

    Thanks for input thus far. Signal not the problem, sound coming from Suhr pickups and such. Don't know if I am describing it right as this is happening to several of my sounds that are already pretty mid-heavy. Some profiles are right there and present, others not so much. I will see about EQ before amp, not as excited as ditching stereo as it helps make some songs/tones nice and big without relying much on verb.

    It might be worth getting some reasonably good audio from multiple points and comparing them. (i.e. have someone in the audience record on their phone or better; record the PA mix directly from the board, etc.). This can help give you perspective to evaluate what is really going on in the big picture. Maybe even post the audio here so others can evaluate and give their opinion.

    I had a similar issue with stage wash and monitoring a few years back - I did not like the way I sat in the mix on stage, but recordings from a friend in the audience everything sounded almost perfect - so I focused on my adjusting my monitoring set up and came up with something that worked great for my stage monitoring audio without messing with my rigs, output, or anything on the Kemper itself.

    • Official Post
    Quote from flyingheelhook

    I had a similar issue with stage wash and monitoring a few years back - I did not like the way I sat in the mix on stage, but recordings from a friend in the audience everything sounded almost perfect - so I focused on my adjusting my monitoring set up and came up with something that worked great for my stage monitoring audio without messing with my rigs, output, or anything on the Kemper itself.

    very true - trust your FOH mixer or find someone you can trust

    FWIW,
    I get the signal I send to the FOH back for my in-ears and everything sounds great (a decent InEar mix isn't that hard to achieve, if it is unfamiliar terrain for you, let your FOH give you a basic mix, often you'll only have to boost your channel(s) by 3dB or so and you're good to go.

    my point being, that the same sound can work well for FOH and monitoring. In the fifth year of doing it this way.

    Quote from flyingheelhook

    It might be worth getting some reasonably good audio from multiple points and comparing them.

    Thanks again for ideas, folks. This isn't a universal thing with my sound; some stuff is really up front and hefty (some rectifier profiles) or spanky (Tele sounds). Other modified profiles (performances) just seem further back and I'm hoping I don't have some parameter that is working against me. My bass buddy's place is big enough that we can actually set up our PA and stand a good ways back from the actual speakers and hear FOH, minus a bit of volume of course. And I hear the same thing from my PreSonus studio monitors.

    Gonna try going back to mono. Other than that, using Direct Mix and Pre-Delay (verb), there are some things I don't know - what the heck "Panorama" is, whether there is diff using Compression under the Amp settings vs a Compressor stomp (dont use much anyway), and whether one of the OD stomps I use (Kemper Drive SD1 or OC most common) is squashing things. Will keep at it.

    ps for mono does it matter which R or L output is used on the back of the Kemper to the desk?

    Quote from GratefulNed

    Thanks again for ideas, folks. This isn't a universal thing with my sound; some stuff is really up front and hefty (some rectifier profiles) or spanky (Tele sounds). Other modified profiles (performances) just seem further back and I'm hoping I don't have some parameter that is working against me. My bass buddy's place is big enough that we can actually set up our PA and stand a good ways back from the actual speakers and hear FOH, minus a bit of volume of course. And I hear the same thing from my PreSonus studio monitors.

    Gonna try going back to mono. Other than that, using Direct Mix and Pre-Delay (verb), there are some things I don't know - what the heck "Panorama" is, whether there is diff using Compression under the Amp settings vs a Compressor stomp (dont use much anyway), and whether one of the OD stomps I use (Kemper Drive SD1 or OC most common) is squashing things. Will keep at it.

    ps for mono does it matter which R or L output is used on the back of the Kemper to the desk?

    I think your suggestions all make sense.

    I totally agree on the Stereo thang, sounds massive on its own but sometimes can get lost in the mix, depending on what other instruments.

    In most cases its because there is a clash of frequencies, so sometimes too much mid/bass can clash with the bass for example. If you have 2 guitars then defo look at the sounds you are occupying.

    You point on your Tele makes sense to me because cleaner sounds usually cut more, so dropping the gain does help. It can also make it sound "bigger" - just joined another band and using a more bluesey sound and I was blown away that when cranked up it sounded fantastic, even though the gain was much lower!

    Doesn't matter which output you use as long as you have set to mono.

    Quote from DonPetersen

    …not all stereo effects are mono-compatible

    This is important.

    When it sums to mono - it can sound *bad*.

    The other thing is - you need to identify what’s causing the issue. My method would be to pull everything out of the signal except the amp and cab.

    Does it *ever* come forward?

    Then start adding and removing one thing at a time. No smoking gun?


    Start adding two things. All the variations. Then 3….etc.


    Time consuming? Yep. If it finds the culprit, good. If it doesn’t - then a whole new rig may be necessary.

    Being a quality commercial rig or profile doesn’t matter. It can still suck for what you want. Just don’t assume that because the maker is trusted or highly regarded means it’s something you did or didn’t do.


    Paid profiles/rigs can suck just as easily as any other.

    Quote from Ruefus

    If it doesn’t - then a whole new rig may be necessary.

    In messing with things last night I discovered that a couple of my oft-used profiles may just be limited in terms of their 'forwardness'. In other digital applications I might have been tempted to mess with 'mic placement' on some of these but that isn't part of our options on the Kemper (at least for those of us using other people's profiles).

    I found one new JCM 800 "raw" profile from DR in the stock 2.0 Kemper pack last night that is a superb example of a 'forward' sound, with none of that mix-cutting character lost even if I have the gain up or add some verb. Gonna ditch stereo though, and keep workin' on the rest.

    One thing that's helped me is cutting a bit of the low end rather than adding more highs. That usually makes the amp sit more forward in the mix without sounding harsh. A small boost in the upper mids can also make a big difference, especially if you're playing with a band.

    Quote from GratefulNed

    In messing with things last night I discovered that a couple of my oft-used profiles may just be limited in terms of their 'forwardness'. In other digital applications I might have been tempted to mess with 'mic placement' on some of these but that isn't part of our options on the Kemper (at least for those of us using other people's profiles).

    I found one new JCM 800 "raw" profile from DR in the stock 2.0 Kemper pack last night that is a superb example of a 'forward' sound, with none of that mix-cutting character lost even if I have the gain up or add some verb. Gonna ditch stereo though, and keep workin' on the rest.

    I bet that it doesn;t sound great on its own but bangs out in the mix? I also bet its not a very forgiving sound? I tend find those that cut best also show every little error ha!

    Quote from V8guitar

    I tend find those that cut best also show every little error ha!

    This one is pretty darn versatile but even better with a bit more bass, less presence, wee bit o' verb with predelay, and some power sag. Delicious over a wide range of gain settings. But yeah big fixes like the "Cut The Mix" EQ stomp pre-amp are too much and not needed.

    I realize some profiles are really just doomed - for some reason they sound blanketed (or conversely way too fizzy) even with a lot of tweaking.

    Quote from Michael_dk

    Good to hear :) could also be you can use the cab from that JCM800 for other profiles you like :)

    That's something I've not tried, thank you! This one from DR is Mars 4*12 Black 2.0. For all my performances the profiles I've chosen have the "Imprint Select" under Cab greyed out, which presumably lets the profile author's Cab come thru. My default Cab imprint is Celestion Vintage 30s but like I said that's always greyed out.

    If that sounds normal, great, so the idea would be to copy and paste that Mars 4*12 Black 2.0 (for example) and try it instead of the Cab that other profiles come with (?). Will give it a shot.

    Best progress yet for "forward" tones:

    • Copying a Cab I like over into other profiles that have inexplicably bleh Cabs
    • Using the Studio EQ setting "Cut the Mix" before the amp, then tweaking to taste (finding I need to pull back mids)
    • No stereo. (sad face but ok)
    • Even more pre-delay with any verb

    Favorite so far is a Friedman Plexi-style liquid profile with the the DR Mars 4*12 Black 2.0 Cab and the Mix fix, it rules.

    Not sure this relates to your case, but I'm reporting my experience hoping it helps.

    I've found that in most cases the issue of tones getting lost in the mix derives from three circumstances:

    1. making sounds at home volume
    2. making sounds outside the mix contest
    3. trying to use that gorgeous, living-room tone on stage.

    When we listen to sounds at low volume our brain automatically increases the mids; so you are brought to increase low-mids, lows, highs or whatever. At higher volume the neurological increment of the mids ceases, and we are left with the least useful ranges of frequencies...

    The best mix is the one where every instrument/range on frequencies sits in a more or less empty niche: IOW, the one where instruments don't overlap. This moves the "lost in the mix" issue from the guitarist alone to the band: unless the mixer guy is good, not all the (bass) drum sounds are suited for a certain context; in a traditional rock context the piano player usually doesn't play the first two octaves... and so on.
    In case such things can't ber changed, the guitar player is the best equipped member to find the empty niche(s) in the band context. Playing with the band is the best way to sculpture your tone the right way... unless you have a lot of experience already (experience is required because those well-functioning tone sound very poor/bad alone).

    As a general rule, I'd advise you cut everything below 80/100 Hz, and then use a PEQ to find the most offending range of frequencies while playing with the band at volume. When you find it, just negativise the PEQ gain... and you are at least halfway :D

    HTH

    «When all else fails, read the manual» :/