Commercial profiles obsolete?

    I asked a question in the 2.0 thread, but I guess, that it’s off topic. So I start a thread about it here.

    Should buying commercial rigs and profiles be over?

    A rig often just consists of the amp + the cab, mics and external gear. My logic says, that the profiling stage of the amp alone must be entirely the same every time.

    Because, It’s the same amp. Because, the profiling process will profile the exact same circuit every time. The circuit doesn’t change.

    If having 1 amp profiled on every channel (clean, crunch and lead) and the creator has made it a Liquid Profile, why would you ever need another profile of the same amp? As in ever again.

    You can just swap out the cab for an IR or the Kone imprints.

    If you then take another profile of the same amp, and then cut the cab from the rig, and then put in the same IR. You would have to get the same sound, right? Because, the amp circuit is the exact same as the one prior.

    Why do we need to buy from commercial rig creators, now that Liquid Profiling exists?

    What is the difference, when you cut away the cab from the different rigs of the same amp? I don’t get it. It should be the same. We should always get the “real” amp tone.

    many amps will have several settings to capture, eg. a bright cap, jumpered, jazz/rock switch etc. Add to that different mics and combinations of mics ( consider the expense of something like a 121 - most people won't own one) so i think the professional guys will be fine. Also trying to "rertofit" an I.R. later on may not give the same Result

    Personally I'd rather go straight to someone like MB and pay a little knowing I'm getting quality than to wade through hundreds of poorly captured profiles on rig exchange

    Quote from paddyc

    many amps will have several settings to capture, eg. a bright cap, jumpered, jazz/rock switch etc.

    Good point of course. But once that’s all been done one time, what then? That transcends the regular eq and gain settings of course.

    Quote from paddyc

    […] Add to that different mics and combinations of mics ( consider the expense of something like a 121 - most people won't own one) so i think the professional guys will be fine. Also trying to "rertofit" an I.R. later on may not give the same Result

    But, that’s the thing. The mics etc are not for the amp circuit. They are for the cab section of the rig/profile. So all that - to me - seems like it’s totally obsolete regarding buying anything else than just IR packs - or using the imprints. The amp itself is just the amp.


    So if you want a profile of a specific amp and there is a Liquid profile of it. Why on earth would you want more than one? I really can’t see it. The circuit that is profiled should be the exact same on all versions of that particular amp. To me buying commercial rigs/profiles seems doomed.

    Quote from JoePVblue

    Liquid profiling will never have the same behaviour as the amp.


    It’s more or less close, but not the same!

    Yes, I get that. Call it a minor imperfection or something else. But, that minor imperfection between the programming of Liquid Profiling - and the end result of that - and then the actual amp, would have to be universal, right?

    The amp makers makes amps, that should sound pretty similar if not completely similar. If taking 100 of the same amp, the company strive to make those 100 amps sound the same. The Liquid Profiling would sound the same on all of them, would then be my guess.

    Quote from JoePVblue

    if you want to have an exact snapshot you have to create snapshots.

    Or you have to dial in the tone.

    I’m not talking about snapshots. I’m talking about getting an amp to tweak to your liking. I’m talking about wanting the “real” amp with its eq-settings and gain-settings to be equal to the real amp - or very close to. If you have that, why would you ever want anything else? If it’s 98-99% close to the real amp? That makes all that snapshot chasing obsolete. You already have the amp. Now you just need the IR.

    I don’t think commercial profiling is dead. Many of us—including me—will never have access to rare or expensive amps, which is exactly why we choose something like a Kemper or a similar unit.

    After seeing a snapshot of what the 2.0 update can do, it really just shows that any amp—whether it’s a Fender, Marshall, Vox, or something else—can be adjusted to suit your own tone. I see it as a starting point for finding your sound. That’s all it is and all it will ever be: a blank canvas. You bring the paint, and you shape it into whatever tone you’re chasing.

    Kemper Profiler Player | Fender Player Plus Telecaster

    Quote from jub_100

    I don’t think commercial profiling is dead. Many of us—including me—will never have access to rare or expensive amps, which is exactly why we choose something like a Kemper or a similar unit.

    After seeing a snapshot of what the 2.0 update can do, it really just shows that any amp—whether it’s a Fender, Marshall, Vox, or something else—can be adjusted to suit your own tone. I see it as a starting point for finding your sound. That’s all it is and all it will ever be: a blank canvas. You bring the paint, and you shape it into whatever tone you’re chasing.

    Maybe not dead dead. But, answer me this. I want a profile of a really rare amp from the 70’s or whatever. Once I have it, why should I buy another one from another seller? Or why should I buy yet another version of that same rare amp from the same seller? What will I ever gain from that?

    Of course taken into account, that some have more than one channel, the whole jumpered thing etc. But, let’s say that it’s a regular 2-channel amp, that has a liquid profile.

    Why should I buy yet another one now? I have the “exact” amp now. The amp I was looking for. All I now need is the speaker-solution. It’s like you have purchased the amp for real. Would you buy two? Why?

    If you can separate profiling amp and cab and you have a liquid profile, then you only need an IR. You now have it like a Line 6 model. You have the whole thing. You don’t need different snapshots of different eq settings etc.

    That’s what I mean by dead or doomed. I see no real business to be found here. Of course there will always be some, that either don’t know or whatever. There will also always be a very tiny market for reel-to-reel recording studios. Some do still like that, but it’s a minority. It’s not really a business, that thrives.

    If you can get one profile - like a modelled one - and that profile is as close, as Kemper possibly can get, I cannot see a market for making profiles anymore. It’s obsolete. Maybe not 100% obsolete, but isn’t it stupid to buy the same thing over and over again, when it’s just the cab/mics that differ?

    There will be no tonestack for your rare amp available, except it is in the small list currently available. You simple can not make a liquid profile of it.
    Vendors offering boutique amps, rare and modded amps or simple the amps Kemper has no tone stacks yet, they can not make liquid profiles!

    Quote from Ibot39

    There will be no tonestack for your rare amp available, except it is in the small list currently available. You simple can not make a liquid profile of it.
    Vendors offering boutique amps, rare and modded amps or simple the amps Kemper has no tone stacks yet, they can not make liquid profiles!

    But aren’t many amps sharing the tonestack? I was under the impression, that this was true. And I don’t know if the list shown in T&T video 2 is a small list. Doesn’t it look like it’s been very much increased?

    But let’s say, that your argument is true. And it might be of course. That still leaves the business in a very weak spot compared to now.

    Quote from b_ryan

    But aren’t many amps sharing the tonestack? I was under the impression, that this was true. And I don’t know if the list shown in T&T video 2 is a small list. Doesn’t it look like it’s been very much increased?

    But let’s say, that your argument is true. And it might be of course. That still leaves the business in a very weak spot compared to now.

    No there are no new tone stacks added yet.

    First let me add: For me, Kemper profiles always capture a unique signal chain. The cables used, the speaker load (since different cabs and speakers affect the load differently, as do load boxes), the DI box in the chain, maybe EQ in the amp’s effects loop, even overdrive pedals baked into the profile - not for extra gain, but for tightness and EQ shaping. All that makes a huge difference.
    Also overlooked: Swapping the tubes can drastically alter an amp’s tone. Different tubes and bias settings can make it feel like an entirely different beast.

    Not to mention mods, different circuit components and switches on the amp. How many profiles do you need of a MESA Boogie Mark V amp to cover all the possibilitis and sound options with it's many channels and multi watt options and build in graphic eq. And there is no Kemper tone stack that nails any of the channels close enough for me.

    And again: For many amps, there simply aren’t any tone stacks available to achieve the same feel and tone when dialing in.

    Only some of the amps (profiles) I use on a regular basis for recording:
    None of them can be turned into Liquid Profiles:
    Bogner Uberschall, Brunetti XL R-Evo, Diezel D-Moll, Diezel Einstein, Driftwood Purple Nightmare, Engl E766 Inferno, Engl Steve Morse E656, Fender 68 Custom Pro Reverb, Framus Cobra, Hiwatt Super-Hi 50, H&K GrandMeister Deluxe, H&K Triamp, Marshall Astoria Dual AST-3, Marshall JVM 410HJS, Marshall JVM 410H, Mesa Boogie Lonestar Classic, Mesa Boogie Road King, Mezzabarba M-Zero Overdrive, Peavey Invective, PRS Archon 50 or 100, Randall 667, Revv G20, Revv Generator 120, Soldano Astro 20, Victory Kraken VX100... just to mention a few.

    Now you can say a Mezzabarba M-Zero Overdrive is maybe based on a modded Soldano or something. Just take one of the Soldana Slo tonestacks, because it may be the closest. But it just doesn't work or translate this way.

    Quote from b_ryan

    Maybe not dead dead. But, answer me this. I want a profile of a really rare amp from the 70’s or whatever. Once I have it, why should I buy another one from another seller? Or why should I buy yet another version of that same rare amp from the same seller? What will I ever gain from that?

    5 (untouched) JMP Marshal of the early 70th do not sound the same! Believe me. They are in my basement.

    That’s the reason why they were profiled and the profiles sound different too.

    That’s for the “purists”

    But you can dial in one Kemper profile to match them all.


    The “player” dials in the tone and its fine.


    So you are right and you are not right.

    Edited once, last by JoePVblue (February 27, 2026 at 5:50 PM).

    As with most things, this is about balance.

    With more accurate profiling, liquid profiles and imprints, there are more variables being accounted for and so yes takes you on that journey

    ....but there are many reasons why there will still need to be different variations:

    1) Amps also vary from one to another - people will talk about a "good plexi"

    2) Imprints and IR's are pre determined and some people will always want the variation of mic type and placement

    3) Tone stacks are limited both in availability and what they can do - remember the all the variations on a Mesa Mkv?

    4) There are variations in profiling, hence why refinement exists. Not sure if 2.0 eliminates this fully

    So I would maybe expect to see fewer but unlikely they will disappear.

    I'm not sure I'm following the OP's question/position. Every profile of an amp is a profile of that amp. And the profiles vary widely ... just pull 5 or 6 profiles of a '65 Deluxe Reverb or JCM800 off the Exchange and listen to them. Even the DI profiles (excluding the cab/mic) are very different. And that's before you get to V8guitar 's very accurate comment that the same model amp varies a lot from one to the other ("Plexi's" being the most notable, but there a many others).

    Personally, I'm with paddyc and prefer to buy profiles from known excellent sources (Britt, Figg) than hunt and peck through hundreds if not thousands of profiles on Rig Exchange, most of which (to me) are not very good or useful. There are notable exceptions, but they are few and not worth the incredible amount of time it takes to find them.