Getting amp in room easier with 2 Kemper Kones ?

    The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Head/Rack

    Have mk1 Toaster (not amplified) with Kemper Kone Amp. Also have Fender Blues Deluxe reissue (with JHS little black box to manage volume).

    Sound wise I can get fairly close to clean/breaking up fender sound on Kemper Kone amp, but fender amp gives me more ‘oomph’/ wider spread / more airy sound, while Kemper seems much more directed. Have played with dispersion parameter -don’t notice real impact. Have put Kone also on floor instead of levelled upwards, to have more base impact as regular amp does. By tweaking amp EQ, and also output EQ, managed to get quite close tone-wise, but still I can spot the Fender easily.

    Would adding a 2nd Kemper Kone amp solve this ? Giving better room perception ? Fender BDL RI is open back combo, so sound might spread in room differently versus my Kone closed back.
    Also hoping that with 2 Kemper Kone amps might have similar amp-in-room effect at lower volume. Or am I better looking for a Zedd cabinet with 2x12 Kemper Kone ? Bu these also seem closed back.
    Any experience / advice ? Or is Kemper really only expected for “recorded amp” sound ? Or would a Tone King Imperial (amp or pedal) with attenuator built in be a faster way to have great tone at lower volume ?

    I don’t think a second kone will help. The real difference is Open Back cabinet Vs Closed Back Cabinet. They are different beasts. Not only does open back radiate sound from the rear but also has less punch and tightness. Closed back is much more directinal. Trie taking the back off you current Kabinet to hear the difference. If this gives the result you want, I would get a separate Kone and mount it in an open back cabinet or modify the back of your existing Kabinet to make it open backed.

    I think mic’d sound emulation will never give you that oomph, wider spread, or more airy sound. I have a Fender Princeton 65 RI tube amp and I’ve never come even close to that sound quality with the Kemper and studio monitors. And I’m not talking only about the “amp in the room” feeling — also the texture of the sound.

    However, the headphone output on the Kemper does a surprisingly good job; the feel is much better than through studio monitors.

    But for me, nothing beats the sound of a real amp in the room.

    Quote from skoczy

    I think mic’d sound emulation will never give you that oomph, wider spread, or more airy sound. I have a Fender Princeton 65 RI tube amp and I’ve never come even close to that sound quality with the Kemper and studio monitors. And I’m not talking only about the “amp in the room” feeling — also the texture of the sound.

    However, the headphone output on the Kemper does a surprisingly good job; the feel is much better than through studio monitors.

    But for me, nothing beats the sound of a real amp in the room.

    It appears that the OP is using a Kone/Kabinet presumably with imprints which are obviously Kempers attempt to nail the amp in th room sound instead of a mic in front of a cab sound. Totally agree that a mic in front of a cabinet through monitors and standing infant of a cabinet in the flesh are two totally different experiences.

    I ran two Kabinets for a while in stereo and in mono.

    In the end I didn't find it necessary. One does just fine for me.

    What speaker is in the Fender Blues Deluxe? Are you using a Fender Blues Deluxe profile? Are you using imprints, or the stock speaker in the profile?

    Quote from dmatthews

    I ran two Kabinets for a while in stereo and in mono.

    In the end I didn't find it necessary. One does just fine for me.

    What speaker is in the Fender Blues Deluxe? Are you using a Fender Blues Deluxe profile? Are you using imprints, or the stock speaker in the profile?

    the real amp has the original Eminence speaker, especially made for Fender"

    I am using a self-captured profile from that real amp. But you are already the 3rd person implying that buying a 2nd Kemper Kone Amp won't make a big difference ... maybe I should look into other tube amps at lower volume, however i fear that part of the amp in room"feel is directly linked to high volume :) so kind of counterproductive.

    Quote from JVDW

    the real amp has the original Eminence speaker, especially made for Fender"

    I am using a self-captured profile from that real amp. But you are already the 3rd person implying that buying a 2nd Kemper Kone Amp won't make a big difference ... maybe I should look into other tube amps at lower volume, however i fear that part of the amp in room"feel is directly linked to high volume :) so kind of counterproductive.

    I have a Fender Princeton 65 RI with stock 10" Jensen C-10R speaker. It is 12W or 15W some sources say. I plug my strat into instrument input 2 (which is meant for humbuckers) and I get glorious tone at bedroom levels.

    Quote from JVDW

    the real amp has the original Eminence speaker, especially made for Fender"

    I am using a self-captured profile from that real amp. But you are already the 3rd person implying that buying a 2nd Kemper Kone Amp won't make a big difference ... maybe I should look into other tube amps at lower volume, however i fear that part of the amp in room"feel is directly linked to high volume :) so kind of counterproductive.

    Have you tried a commercial profile of that amp, maybe liquid type? Not trying to disparage your capture efforts but just curious.

    Quote from skoczy

    I have a Fender Princeton 65 RI with stock 10" Jensen C-10R speaker. It is 12W or 15W some sources say. I plug my strat into instrument input 2 (which is meant for humbuckers) and I get glorious tone at bedroom levels.

    Will certainly give that a try. Sometimes the most simple solutions are the best :)

    However, the Fender BDLx RI is 40W amp, and already applied the little black box in the send/return loop as a master volume. That helps, otherwise the Fender is too quiet and not blooming just below 2, and once you raise gain beyond 2, becomes far too loud. All due to the log-pot meters.

    Hey, happy new year !

    My two cents, three things help me get closer to that feel :

    - the bass boost in the « Kone settings » (my 2x12 cab loaded with Kones is not on the ground)

    - using an analog OD before the Kemper

    - using the studio EQ after the cab to remove what’s bothering me and enhance what I like

    Quote from JVDW

    Will certainly give that a try. Sometimes the most simple solutions are the best :)

    However, the Fender BDLx RI is 40W amp, and already applied the little black box in the send/return loop as a master volume. That helps, otherwise the Fender is too quiet and not blooming just below 2, and once you raise gain beyond 2, becomes far too loud. All due to the log-pot meters.

    My Princeton at 3 is acceptable in bedroom levels and I get all amp in the room feeling and this strat twang.

    In the past, I have modded some of my combo amps so that I can use them with the built-in speaker as an external cab. Using Kemper with a Hotone Loudster neutral power amp in my case. So maybe the Kemper through the Fender BDLx combo could be a solution?

    I agree with the open back vs closed cab comments. Also, Fenders are kind of heavy on the low end compared to some other amps. You could literally boost the low end in your output (either in the kemper or with an external EQ) and get closer to the right curve but it's never going to sound exactly the same (or very close) without open back.

    The original question, will 2 kones help?

    Answer - no. I ran 2 kones and it sounded exactly the same with reduced volume ( due to impedance) so definitely don't bother with that.

    So is the question is what are you trying to achieve here, amp in the room OR mimicing your current amp which is "in the room".

    If we go back to the kone and its purpose, it was to try to get the best of 2 worlds - guitar cabs and their "amp in the room" sound vs the flex of FRFR where the cab doesn't just mask any amp sound variation.

    As a result, I think you can get good amp in the room sounds from a Kone but its is a "compromise" and so I think you can get close but you won't replicate the actual amp. To do that you would need a direct profile and then run it through a guitar cab in my opinion..

    Quote from V8guitar

    The original question, will 2 kones help?

    Answer - no. I ran 2 kones and it sounded exactly the same with reduced volume ( due to impedance) so definitely don't bother with that.

    So is the question is what are you trying to achieve here, amp in the room OR mimicing your current amp which is "in the room".

    If we go back to the kone and its purpose, it was to try to get the best of 2 worlds - guitar cabs and their "amp in the room" sound vs the flex of FRFR where the cab doesn't just mask any amp sound variation.

    As a result, I think you can get good amp in the room sounds from a Kone but its is a "compromise" and so I think you can get close but you won't replicate the actual amp. To do that you would need a direct profile and then run it through a guitar cab in my opinion..

    Thx. Some good points raised to reflect. With 2 Kone’s , I meant trying to send 2 separate outputs ( possibly stereo) to 2 separate Kemper kone Amps, so impedance should remain same . Objective is not to raise volume though, as 1 Kemper Knone Amp easily can exceed 95-105dB at 1-2m distance. However, as raised by others too, to spread sound more open , similar as to what the Fender Blues dlx RI does via its partially open back. If I get a Zedd cab 2x12 upstanding - agree I will get less volume - but need and ICE SS amp somehow at least, currently Zedd does not offer this . But an upstanding 2x12 cab likely spread sound more out.

    Further to what was suggested in this threads, have looked at opening Kemper Kone Amp, but not experimented yet - it contains the speaker connector and the mains, and back is in 1 piece. But think this probably would get me closer to the Amp in Room sound as from Fender Combo.

    What do I understand with Amp in Room ? I feel the percussive strumming a bit more from the Combo, and it’s more ‘airy’ = less directional, whereas the `Kemper Kone Amp (KKA) sounds much more localised - even a bit like in a “box”/tunnel, something the `Fender doesn’t have. Objective is to enjoy the sound in the room, but at lower volume. Somehow I feel these are contradicting requirements - ‘feel the guitar more’ like a real Combo, but “less loud, and enjoying the large variety of amps Kemper offers”

    Am I chasing a dream ?

    Quote from JVDW

    What do I understand with Amp in Room ? I feel the percussive strumming a bit more from the Combo, and it’s more ‘airy’ = less directional, whereas the `Kemper Kone Amp (KKA) sounds much more localised - even a bit like in a “box”/tunnel, something the `Fender doesn’t have. Objective is to enjoy the sound in the room, but at lower volume. Somehow I feel these are contradicting requirements - ‘feel the guitar more’ like a real Combo, but “less loud, and enjoying the large variety of amps Kemper offers”

    That’s probably the Fender being an open back cab vs. the closed back Kab. Closed backs tend to “beam” (that tunnel effect you’re referring to) whereas open back cabs are less directional because the sound comes from the back of the speaker as well as its front.

    Quote from JVDW

    Thx. Some good points raised to reflect. With 2 Kone’s , I meant trying to send 2 separate outputs ( possibly stereo) to 2 separate Kemper kone Amps, so impedance should remain same . Objective is not to raise volume though, as 1 Kemper Knone Amp easily can exceed 95-105dB at 1-2m distance. However, as raised by others too, to spread sound more open , similar as to what the Fender Blues dlx RI does via its partially open back. If I get a Zedd cab 2x12 upstanding - agree I will get less volume - but need and ICE SS amp somehow at least, currently Zedd does not offer this . But an upstanding 2x12 cab likely spread sound more out.

    Further to what was suggested in this threads, have looked at opening Kemper Kone Amp, but not experimented yet - it contains the speaker connector and the mains, and back is in 1 piece. But think this probably would get me closer to the Amp in Room sound as from Fender Combo.

    What do I understand with Amp in Room ? I feel the percussive strumming a bit more from the Combo, and it’s more ‘airy’ = less directional, whereas the `Kemper Kone Amp (KKA) sounds much more localised - even a bit like in a “box”/tunnel, something the `Fender doesn’t have. Objective is to enjoy the sound in the room, but at lower volume. Somehow I feel these are contradicting requirements - ‘feel the guitar more’ like a real Combo, but “less loud, and enjoying the large variety of amps Kemper offers”

    Am I chasing a dream ?

    Thanks for clarifying the 2 kones bit...I ran mine in mono via the linking feature on the Kabinets and spread was no different.

    I've also just got to talk about spread - in my experience ( which is limited) I found the kones have a much wider spread than a guitar cab. This is most noticeable on a 4x12 which is way more directional than people think. I have no science behind this so I could be wrong but I've had no issues with spread/coverage so I'm interested that your experience is different.

    I don't think you are chasing a dream per se, sounds like you really just want to address the boxy sound. Again its not something I recognise, I'm amazed at how my very small and light Kabinet doesn't sound boxy but I understand the sound you are trying to get. The fender will have had the cab, speaker and amp "tuned" for the best sound. You are trying to replicate that with a generic set up so some things will always be a compromise.

    I think the answer is to just keep experimenting. I would definitely keep trying different profiles. Perhaps loosen the Kabinet back to see if it breathes more?