using Kemper effects straight into front of tube amp

    Quote from Job Posthuma

    Multi fx in front of amps, or in 4cm…a very common usecase for digital devices, been doing that (on and off) for years.
    And imo digital drives sound the same into digital amps as into analog.

    KPP in front of an amp as a mini pedalboard, or in the loop for time efx only and a few pedals in front…not to silly right?

    Not too silly at all ;) As an early 4CM adopter, I ran a Boss GT8 in this manner into my Harry Kolbe Soundsmith amp (in front and into the effects loop), and it sounded incredible. Having said that, I'm also getting great results with the lowly GT1's distortion and delay/reverb (mixed low) into the front end of a tweed deluxe (no loop on this one), which is also sounding pretty great. I figured it could only be better with the Kemper Player, and I'm looking forward to trying out the "null cable" suggestion made earlier in this thread - I'll let u know how it goes for me ;) THANKS EVERYONE!

    Quote from dango123

    Respectfully disagree - The Boss GT1 distortion models sound absolutely excellent into a tube amp ...

    That's actually right.

    Back at the time I used BOSS ME-90 and it sounded very good directly into the tube amp (EVH 5150 Iconic). In my ears any 4CM or put it into the effects loop, but directly before the amp.

    I had a few moments to try this suggestion out - while it is having an effect, for me it doesn't solve the problem - here's my test case

    1) Load the LMTTRAY - A-Stick profile (as is from Rig Exchange)
    2) Disable all effects
    3) Set monitor output to Master Mono (note that it was already there on my player)
    4) Toggle the amp model on to off, and back on again
    5) Load a Bit Shaper (8Bit Solo) model in front of the amp

    For me, the bit shaper sounds like it is lingering softly in the background (like 5-10% active), while the clean/uneffected sound dominates - the parallel path mixed sound still seems to be happening. To a lesser extent I still heard this effect in some of the drive models (like Green Scream) as well. Some Drives are definitely moving in the right direction, but still have a softish kind of feel to them (at least some that I tried out).

    Wheresthedug and Job Posthuma Can you please see if you can duplicate what I'm hearing (or possibly tell me that I'm crazy...) - I know you had few additional suggested tweaks to the output section, but what I'm hearing is not a slight eq difference, there is still something definitely not right (on my machine at least) in the upfront signal chain. Appreciate your help with this, thanks again!

    Quote from dango123

    I had a few moments to try this suggestion out - while it is having an effect, for me it doesn't solve the problem - here's my test case

    1) Load the LMTTRAY - A-Stick profile (as is from Rig Exchange)
    2) Disable all effects
    3) Set monitor output to Master Mono (note that it was already there on my player)
    4) Toggle the amp model on to off, and back on again
    5) Load a Bit Shaper (8Bit Solo) model in front of the amp

    For me, the bit shaper sounds like it is lingering softly in the background (like 5-10% active), while the clean/uneffected sound dominates - the parallel path mixed sound still seems to be happening. To a lesser extent I still heard this effect in some of the drive models (like Green Scream) as well. Some Drives are definitely moving in the right direction, but still have a softish kind of feel to them (at least some that I tried out).

    Wheresthedug and Job Posthuma Can you please see if you can duplicate what I'm hearing (or possibly tell me that I'm crazy...) - I know you had few additional suggested tweaks to the output section, but what I'm hearing is not a slight eq difference, there is still something definitely not right (on my machine at least) in the upfront signal chain. Appreciate your help with this, thanks again!

    Edit: see post 49 with the conclusion that this hypothesis is incorrect

    Afaic…we both do the observation a clean path is unexpectedly introduced. I submitted a support ticket with reference to this thread.

    Btw..the greenscream probably has a clean path by design.

    Edited once, last by Job Posthuma (August 18, 2025 at 11:11 AM).

    Quote from where is christophe

    Yes, some analog drives have a kind of mix happening, some proposing a dedicated knob.
    But we don’t know how Kemper make them happen, do they replicate such characteristics ?

    The Green Scream and Kemper Drive both have a clean signal mixed in with the overdrive in the same was as analog Tube Screamer style pedals. Christoph has spoken on the forum about this in some detail on the past.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    The Green Scream and Kemper Drive both have a clean signal mixed in with the overdrive in the same was as analog Tube Screamer style pedals. Christoph has spoken on the forum about this in some detail on the past.

    Edit: see post 49 with the conclusion that this hypothesis is incorrect

    I don’t hear it in the Kemper drive with the mix at 100% tbh.

    Regardless, with the amp block switched off, the amount of clean mixed in changes drastically…to me a bug.

    Edited once, last by Job Posthuma (August 18, 2025 at 11:11 AM).

    Quote from Job Posthuma

    Afaic…we both do the observation a clean path is unexpectedly introduced. I submitted a support ticket with reference to this thread.

    Btw..the greenscream probably has a clean path by design.

    Thanks, I submitted a ticket as well. I get that some Tube Screamer designs intentionally mix some clean sound back in (the Voodoo Labs Sparkle Drive, if I recall, provided a clean mix option to do a blend along these lines), but the Bit Shaper 8bit example I provided should not be nearly this weak of an effect (and that's with the amp module switched on OR off) - that should be a full on heavy impact -- as it is currently, the effect is essentially useless.

    • Official Post


    Hi!

    As some have mentioned here, all overdrive pedals - including our Green Scream and the Kemper Drive - have the clean signal added to the overdriven signal. That is the nature of overdrive pedals.

    The output level of the profiler is not necessarily equal to the output level of an overdrive or distortion pedal.

    Have you tried to change the output level to achieve the desired sound?


    CK

    • Official Post
    Quote from dango123

    I had a few moments to try this suggestion out - while it is having an effect, for me it doesn't solve the problem - here's my test case

    1) Load the LMTTRAY - A-Stick profile (as is from Rig Exchange)
    2) Disable all effects
    3) Set monitor output to Master Mono (note that it was already there on my player)
    4) Toggle the amp model on to off, and back on again
    5) Load a Bit Shaper (8Bit Solo) model in front of the amp

    For me, the bit shaper sounds like it is lingering softly in the background (like 5-10% active), while the clean/uneffected sound dominates - the parallel path mixed sound still seems to be happening. To a lesser extent I still heard this effect in some of the drive models (like Green Scream) as well. Some Drives are definitely moving in the right direction, but still have a softish kind of feel to them (at least some that I tried out).

    Wheresthedug and Job Posthuma Can you please see if you can duplicate what I'm hearing (or possibly tell me that I'm crazy...) - I know you had few additional suggested tweaks to the output section, but what I'm hearing is not a slight eq difference, there is still something definitely not right (on my machine at least) in the upfront signal chain. Appreciate your help with this, thanks again!

    The Bit Shaper, as well as any other bit reducing effect, sound like an effect added to the clean signal by nature, when not set to drastical values.

    You can check that there is not parallel signal is added to the Bit Shaper by simply setting Drive and Tone to max value. Then the sound will be cut off, once it decays below the 1 bit barrier.

    CK

    Christoph, gotta say it's very exciting to see your name in this thread, - Thank you very much for your attention on this issue!

    I have tried changing the drive effect output levels (and the overall Player output level), which does not significantly improve the situation for my use case. It's not just that the pedals are at a different output level, they just don't feel or sound "right" when connecting directly to a guitar amp. The tones lack the expected punch and directness with the extra clean signal mixed in.

    I take your point that many external overdrive pedals mix in some clean signal, but something still doesn't seem right (as confirmed by others in this thread). Interestingly, when I use a product like the Boss GT1, the overdrive models behave very much like the modeled pedals when I go into the front of a tube amp, which is why I was hopeful I could get a similar result with the Kemper Player.

    Note that I don't doubt that there may be a user error on my part that is causing the issue - if there is any further advice or suggestion you could provide, I'd greatly appreciate it. And, if it's helpful, I'd be happy to provide a video clip to clarify what I'm experiencing, so just let me know.

    Thanks,
    Dango

    Quote from ckemper

    The Bit Shaper, as well as any other bit reducing effect, sound like an effect added to the clean signal by nature, when not set to drastical values.

    You can check that there is not parallel signal is added to the Bit Shaper by simply setting Drive and Tone to max value. Then the sound will be cut off, once it decays below the 1 bit barrier.

    CK

    Thanks again for weighing in on this point - I will say that the bit shaping pedals that I've worked with, like the EQD Bit Commander, have a more extreme impact on the sound. The test example I provided in my earlier post resulted in an extremely subtle effect which didn't seem like it added much; I did play around with the Drive and Tone settings during my initial experiments but it didn't seem to do much - I will revisit this to see if it makes much of a difference.

    Best,
    Dango

    Edit: see post 49 with the conclusion that this hypothesis is incorrect

    Hi,

    Do you share the observation that if the amp block is turned off, the level of clean signal of the Kemper drive changes significantly? (Post #16)

    Heres a test:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bs24MgMMQLz5-McPZrHyq6Nel54dQxtV/view?usp=sharing

    Sample A: "null profile" active, analog drive in front

    Sample B: "null profile" NOT active, analog drive in front
    A/B should establish that switching the ampblock on/off, does not have major impact when an analog drive is used.

    Sample C: "null profile" active, Kemper drive in front

    Sample D: "null profile" NOT active, Kemper drive in frontC/D should establish that switching the ampblock on/off, does have major impact when Kemper drive is used, to my ears clean signal is much louder.


    Edit: I did another attempt cause the levels where off and did an interesting observation:

    In A/B (analog drive), the level decreases when switching amp block off.
    Between C/D, the level increases when switching the amp block off. (Which matches the observation the observation that clean signal is added)

    Drive test2.wav

    Edited 3 times, last by Job Posthuma (August 18, 2025 at 11:11 AM).

    Quote from dango123

    I had a few moments to try this suggestion out - while it is having an effect, for me it doesn't solve the problem - here's my test case

    1) Load the LMTTRAY - A-Stick profile (as is from Rig Exchange)
    2) Disable all effects
    3) Set monitor output to Master Mono (note that it was already there on my player)
    4) Toggle the amp model on to off, and back on again
    5) Load a Bit Shaper (8Bit Solo) model in front of the amp

    For me, the bit shaper sounds like it is lingering softly in the background (like 5-10% active), while the clean/uneffected sound dominates - the parallel path mixed sound still seems to be happening. To a lesser extent I still heard this effect in some of the drive models (like Green Scream) as well. Some Drives are definitely moving in the right direction, but still have a softish kind of feel to them (at least some that I tried out).

    Wheresthedug and Job Posthuma Can you please see if you can duplicate what I'm hearing (or possibly tell me that I'm crazy...) - I know you had few additional suggested tweaks to the output section, but what I'm hearing is not a slight eq difference, there is still something definitely not right (on my machine at least) in the upfront signal chain. Appreciate your help with this, thanks again!

    I don't hear anything wrong when using Kemper Drive, Kemper Fuzz, Boost etc

    The only thing that sounds weird is the Octa Shaper which Job Posthuma refers to but I suspect that is how the effect itself works so is not a good example to test with.

    Try using something that definitely shouldn't have any clean path like the Kemper Fuzz, Full OC, Mouse etc. I don't hear anything unusual with any of them.

    I think Kemper effects have been developed for the use with Kemper profiles. It’s fine if they are similar to well known effects in front of well known amps. It’s all a digital way of processing which becomes analog in the end.


    It’s fine if some of these effects work in front of analog amps, but I wouldn’t expect them to work the same way as within the hole Kemper path.


    Let’s find out what is usefull and what is different


    Nothing wrong with that.

    Quote from Wheresthedug

    I don't hear anything wrong when using Kemper Drive, Kemper Fuzz, Boost etc

    The only thing that sounds weird is the Octa Shaper which Job Posthuma refers to but I suspect that is how the effect itself works so is not a good example to test with.

    Try using something that definitely shouldn't have any clean path like the Kemper Fuzz, Full OC, Mouse etc. I don't hear anything unusual with any of them.

    Thanks, I'll give it a try later today and report back with my findings - appreciate the help with this!