using Kemper effects straight into front of tube amp

1st Official Post
    The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Head/Rack

    Hi - I have 7 years of experience with my Kemper, and have both a Toaster and Player - love them both and have used them extensively on big gigs and recording sessions. All good.

    Having said that, I also love gigging with my tube amps, and would love to use the effects only blocks within my Kemper Player as I would a traditional pedal board, going straight into the front end of the amp (not the effects loop). I do this today with the lowly Boss GT1... and frankly it sounds extremely good in this scenario. The distortion pedal models on the GT pretty much sound and feel like the real products (BD2, Tube Screamer, Bluesbreaker, etc.) going into the real amp.

    For some reason, I don't get nearly as good results (in this use case specifically) with the Kemper, particularly when using the distortion/drive models. If I turn all effects/amps/cab blocks OFF, and just enable 1 effect block for a Drive, I get thin/weak results which sound nothing like plugging a distortion box into the front of an amp. It's almost as if the guitar signal is going partially thru the drive box, and partially in parallel for a half dirty/half clean kind of sound. Note that I don't have a parallel path enabled which makes it even more confusing.

    If I engage an amp model on the Kemper after the drive block, things move in the right direction... but the whole point is that I only want to use the distortion box, like a Kemper drive, straight into the real tube amp. As mentioned, this works totally as expected on the Boss box... but not on the Kemper.

    If anyone has any suggestions I would hugely appreciate it (and responses like, "dude, you are a knucklehead and are totally doing it wrong, here's how to do it properly..." are totally welcome in this instance - if you can help, I'd love to hear it!).

    Thanks in advance for your help!

    Quote from dango123

    I get thin/weak results which sound nothing like plugging a distortion box into the front of an amp. It's almost as if the guitar signal is going partially thru the drive box, and partially in parallel for a half dirty/half clean kind of sound.

    Edit: see post 49 with the conclusion that this hypothesis is incorrect

    I have exactly the same experience, in the same usecase, support said they couldnt reproduce it…so I ran into a dead end there. Seems to me it occurs as soon as the amp block is switched off.

    Edited 2 times, last by Job Posthuma (August 18, 2025 at 11:09 AM).

    Quote from paults

    What Output settings do you both use?

    Cab Monitor off
    High filter set at ~6K
    Low filter ~ 100hz

    monitoring eq is:
    Bass: +.8
    Middle: -1.4
    Treble: -2.2

    I've experimented with various overall output levels, doesn't make a difference in the tonality issues I described.

    I've also played with different output levels on the drive model itself, makes no difference.

    The "push" from the drive pedal just isn't there unless an amp model is on.

    Note that you can REALLY hear this when you use a bit shaper model - without a gainer amp model switched on, this really sounds bad. Unlike say a real box like a "Earthquaker Devices Bit Commander" which has a lot of fat drive/gain.

    Any insights would be greatly appreciated!!!

    I'm interested in this as well. There are a couple threads about using the 4 cable method with a head. I'm mostly interested in delay & reverb in the loop. I was unsuccessful at getting anything workable and spent way too much time on this serveral years ago. I would honestly love to sell my pedalboard and just double up on the Kemper fxs with my amps.

    Quote from paults

    What Output settings do you both use?

    Edit: see post 49 with the conclusion that this hypothesis is incorrect

    All unity, but imo irrelevant cause the observation is that you get a combo of drive & dry sound (with the mix parameter full up)…that’s just not right, and not an output settings thingy.

    Iirc, also when i tapped into the signal from a loop (send) just after the drive block.

    Edited 2 times, last by Job Posthuma (August 18, 2025 at 11:09 AM).

    The thread I made about it couple months back.

    Thread

    Switching stack&cab off causes a parallel path to overdrives pre stack?

    I was fiddling with a toaster in 4cm with an amp, and noticed some odd behaviour from the Kemper drive: I heard both an overdriven signal, as well as a clean one.

    My conclusion is that when you switch amp&cab off on the KPA, there is a clean path going to the main out, alongside the overdriven signal. Doesn’t seem to be there when the amp section is on. Mix is at 100% on the drive. I cant think of any other setting causing this.


    Can anyone confirm what I’m hearing? Is this a bug / as designed?
    Is…
    Job Posthuma
    January 28, 2025 at 6:51 PM


    Burkhard, 2 cases on an uncommon usecase..reason to investigate a bit further?

    Quote from AleFretMaster

    If I would use the effects only I would try with a completely flat output we and no low cut or high cut

    Hi - I've experimented with various output settings, but I don't think this is what's causing the issues I noted - IMO it's related to how the drives function without the amp module activated - as mentioned, it is almost as if there is a blending of the clean and dirty/effected signals, if that makes any sense... the "punchiness" that you would expect from a distortion effect is generally missing when I use that effect slot alone. Even if I turn the levels up, it doesn't sound/work as expected.

    This isn't something I have ever felt the need to do but you got me curious so I had a play with it.

    I hear what you mean and it certainly isn't the behaviour I would expect. However, I think I might have a solution.

    Try the following and let me know what you think.

    1 Set DIRECT OUT to MASTER MONO and connect from DIRECT OUT to INPUT of valve amp.

    2 Load a dummy rig into the stack section. This would be a profile or a cable only. The one I used was on Rig Exchange LMTTRAY-A-Stick by Tom Wendt

    3 Go into amp settings and set Volume Compensation to 0

    4 LEAVE THE AMP SECTION ON - it is literally just an extra patch cable.

    5 In the Output Menu flick between DI Analog and Master Mono to compare volume. Adust Volume of Direct Out to achieve unity gain between DI Analog and Master Mono.

    Now load whatever FX you need and play as normal.

    I don't know why bypassing the Stack section creates the parallel path thing but this seems to fix it (at least to my ears).

    Quote from where is christophe

    Hey Dango !

    What is happening when activate only a Green Scream for instance, starting with the gain and output at 0 and gradually increasing the output ?

    Does that produce anything useable ?

    I will try to do some playing later today to reconfirm my original findings... but most of the drive models on the Kemper that I worked with, regardless of gain settings (and I did experiment with those settings) did not produce a better/expected result going straight into a real tube amp. I tried most of the distortion box models, as well as the Bit Shaper model - with the Bit Shaper, the issue I'm describing was VERY pronounced, the impact of the effect is very minimal and there is very little "oomph" behind the effect if that makes any sense.

    Plugging into a real/actual EQD Bit Commander pedal (another popular bit shaper box), I experience an entirely different feel/boost/drive vs. what I am getting on Kemper. As is, the Kemper drives, going into the front of a real tube amp, are IMO unrealistic sounding and feeling.

    I will say that I almost never use the drives/distortion effects on Kemper profiles because the profiles themselves are so good and IMO generally don't need the extra enhancement. But I'd love to find a way to use the drives into my real amps - as mentioned, the Boss GT1 does this incredibly well, not sure why it's not working out for me with the Kemper at this point.

    Thanks, appreciate your suggestions! I'll take a look, but I don't believe there is a Direct Out jack on the Player (I know there is a dedicated jack for Direct Out on the Toaster). I'll try the dummy rig/amp on options and let you know what I experience. Thanks again!

    Edit: see post 49 with the conclusion that this hypothesis is incorrect

    Thnx for trying and confirming the observation!

    So basically, create a profile of a cable…in my words a “null profile”…and put that in to mitigate the effect of no amp active on the drives.

    I’m gonna try that and expect it to work..but tbh..does make me a bit concerned about signal integrity for “not standard” usecases.
    I build a board where I aim to use the player only for time efx and a clean boost…so also no amp active…if that also has parallel paths going on, I need to triple check for phase issues.

    Edited once, last by Job Posthuma (August 18, 2025 at 11:10 AM).

    Edit: see post 49 with the conclusion that this hypothesis is incorrect

    Tested it, made a profile of a patch cable, compensated in the amp parameters for volume differences between amp off/on, did the observation that there were no appearant differences between amp block on or off.


    Then engaged a kemperdrive, full gain for the most obvious difference.

    With the amp block turned off there is a very distinct clean sound mixed in, with the amp block on that disappears, (and the drive sounds like expected)

    It’s a workaround, but I hope this is considered a bug by Kemper HQ, and can be fixed, for use in 4cm, but also for use of a KPP as a mini board into an amp.

    Edited once, last by Job Posthuma (August 18, 2025 at 11:10 AM).

    I would not expect good results using a digital distortion into a tube amp. The big question arises "Why?" I do get great results using an analog distortion and effect pedals into the Kemper.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Quote from BayouTexan

    The big question arises "Why?"

    It's just crossed my mind: it's like trying to use wheels from the car on the bicycle because those are wheels as well. :P

    Don't let yourself be distracted by this unrelated note, I'm following this discussion as it is an interesting idea. Even I do not have a usage for it now. But I have to write this :saint:

    Quote from BayouTexan

    I would not expect good results using a digital distortion into a tube amp. The big question arises "Why?" I do get great results using an analog distortion and effect pedals into the Kemper.

    Multi fx in front of amps, or in 4cm…a very common usecase for digital devices, been doing that (on and off) for years.
    And imo digital drives sound the same into digital amps as into analog.

    KPP in front of an amp as a mini pedalboard, or in the loop for time efx only and a few pedals in front…not to silly right?

    Quote from BayouTexan

    I would not expect good results using a digital distortion into a tube amp. The big question arises "Why?" I do get great results using an analog distortion and effect pedals into the Kemper.

    Respectfully disagree - The Boss GT1 distortion models sound absolutely excellent into a tube amp (as does the Boss OD-20 which is their digital drive emulation pedal). I think Kemper itself has proven that digital emulation can deliver totally authentic results, no? ;) But of course YMMV :)