Upgraded KPA + pedals versus Kemper Stage

In my opinion - If creating sounds, making tweaks as you go and learning how to build or ‘get’ certain sounds is what you’re after…..the Stage is the better choice. Hands down.

You *can* make the same sort of tweaks on a Player. No doubt.

But that’s going to be through Rig Manager (mobile or desktop). If you prefer working through a computer - then it’s not quite as cut and dried.

For my workflow - I find that incredibly tedious.

I much prefer having physical knobs, especially when holding a guitar. Plus the immediate visual of the screen, buttons for on/off…..

If you want to explore effect pedals then I would go the KPP route and add on other effect pedals as needed. For example, I have the KPP and then added a guitar synth, feedbacker, talk box and Wah pedal.
There are quite a few options out there and the KPP fits in perfectly.
Of course you could also get the stage and all of the effects you want too but your footprint would be larger.

It’s a good problem to have… lol

Quote from drog

If you want to explore effect pedals then I would go the KPP route and add on other effect pedals as needed. For example, I have the KPP and then added a guitar synth, feedbacker, talk box and Wah pedal.
There are quite a few options out there and the KPP fits in perfectly.
Of course you could also get the stage and all of the effects you want too but your footprint would be larger.

It’s a good problem to have… lol

The one thing with the Player is without an effects loop (or two in the case of the Stage), you’re limited to before the input or after the output.

Not a problem for some who know what they want, but not ideal for experimentation. I used to run my dirt pedals before the amp, but after compression, internal boosts and some modulation effects.

I’ve since replicated them using the Kemper Drive amd leave the outboard stuff at home.

Quote from Ruefus

The one thing with the Player is without an effects loop (or two in the case of the Stage), you’re limited to before the input or after the output.

Not a problem for some who know what they want, but not ideal for experimentation. I used to run my dirt pedals before the amp, but after compression, internal boosts and some modulation effects.

I’ve since replicated them using the Kemper Drive amd leave the outboard stuff at home.

Effects loops are overrated. The sounds we hear on most albums the majority of the effects were done after the guitar was recorded. So I am fine placing effects after the KPP.
The one nice thing with the effects loop on the stage is that I can turn it on and any effects that are attached along with any Kemper effects all with one button press. This is a nice convenient feature.

Still, I don’t miss an effects loop and even on my Kemper Rack I never use the effects loop anyways.

Hi all,

sorry for highjacking the thread - just a short question: don‘t efx loops with their additional AD/DA conversion introduce more latency? Does anyone have a measure/number for that?

Hi rzagrajsek to the Brazil!

It really depends on your use case.

Personally I'm satisfied with KPP sitting on my desk for the scenario of tweaking the sound. Yes, the Rig Manager is opened when I'm playing with the setup.

The complete different scenario is to play with the band. I am personally satisfied with quite low amount of possibilities and focusing on the playing. Don't understand me incorrectly - KPP has exactly sufficient possibilities lying on the floor without the Rig Manager - wah, up/down rig, tuner, possibility to enable disable one, two or both effects at once. Everything maintainable by legs. For rehearsal there is a way to sufficiently adjust sound, for the gigs I let it on the sound guy.

I used larger effects, but KPP is more than sufficient to me. I'm pretty sure I'll be exploring possibilities, sounds and its combinations for years. This would be valid for any Kemper.

I paid for LVL III upgrade.

Quote from drog

Effects loops are overrated. The sounds we hear on most albums the majority of the effects were done after the guitar was recorded. So I am fine placing effects after the KPP.
The one nice thing with the effects loop on the stage is that I can turn it on and any effects that are attached along with any Kemper effects all with one button press. This is a nice convenient feature.

Still, I don’t miss an effects loop and even on my Kemper Rack I never use the effects loop anyways.

Opinions being what they are -

Options vs no options is all I’m proposing.

When it comes to exploring FX, both the Stage and the Player have a plethora of them that can keep you busy for years before adding the odd specialist pedal.
Personally I‘d choose the Stage all the way simply because it‘s far more tweakable on the machine itself.

Quote from Ruefus

Opinions being what they are -

Options vs no options is all I’m proposing.

Yes, I get that and very good options you have brought up. I was just giving reasons he might not need it.

One thing that has not been mentioned, since he is playing mostly at home is going to a head or rack Kemper with the Remote to save on floor space and also then the front face buttons/knobs are where you can easily see and adjust them. I have owned a Stage and for this very reason I went instead to a rack unit.

I have a Powered Head, unpowered Rack and a Player. I have a Remote plus various midi controllers that I already owned prior to buying the Remote. I don’t have a Stage but my friend does and we have gigged together with both Stage and Powered Head side by side.

I think the Player is fantastic device which I use for rehearsals and jamming as I can throw it in the pocket of my gig bag and have everything I need. However, if I wanted more effects, a midi pedal and the paid upgrades I would buy the Stage instead of the player every day of the week.

The other place where I really like the Player though is for playing at home. I’m connected to Rig Manager and don’t need any midi foot pedals etc in that situation so a Player on the desk is ideal.

For gigging though I would always take a Head or Rack plus a Remote as I don’t like having an all in one unit at the front of stage with power and audio cables running across the floor. In your situation though drog suggest of a head or rack without a Remote would probably be my preferred option.

For at home, I could go either way.

For live use, the Stage 100%.

You really should get a Stage. If experimentation and learning about effects is key, the Stage does everything effect wise with high quality effects, while being much easier to use than the Player, thanks to its screen, more buttons, knobs, foot switches, and LEDs that let you know what is active and what is not. Other than being bigger than you might need in some situations (playing an acoustic set), the Player's only advantage is saving space and a little bit of money.

The Player's size and cost advantage disappear as soon as you begin to use it with extra gear to make up for its weakness. Consider the guitarist that buys a level 3 Player for $700+$325, gets a $150-350 midi or external foot switch, a couple of drive pedals ($150 each) and now needs a multi pedal power supply ($150) and a pedal board to mount all this to it ($150). He's now spent MORE money than just a $1500 Stage, for a board that takes up as much space and weighs more than a Stage by itself, and is still inferior in functionality. If he want to add some pedals that belong AFTER the amp section, he won't have an effects loop to place them in, and will lose all the benefits of having multiple outputs.

Quote from Grooguit

The Player's size and cost advantage disappear as soon as you begin to use it with extra gear to make up for its weakness.

I mostly agree with you, and I get what you are saying.

The Player does have a space advantage up to a certain level. Beyond that point, while the stage is huge, if you want all those buttons without scrolling (a big if), you're not going to get much smaller.

• The Player with a small midi controller is far smaller than the Stage. You can choose the size.
• A midi controller can do double duty (with your current midi controlled devices and your new Player). That is, if you already have a pedalboard with a midi controller, you'll likely to continue to want a midi controller.
• We have some choices for controllers with displays (PySwitch and/or Paint Audio) that gives you most of what the Stage's display offers. Hopefully the choices expand over time.
• You can pull the Player off your larger board and take it solo (with reduced capability). It fits in a gig bag. Stage is never going to be that. Different strokes for different folks.

Quote from quemper

• You can pull the Player off your larger board and take it solo (with reduced capability). It fits in a gig bag. Stage is never going to be that. Different strokes for different folks.

That feature is probably the most appealing to me for the Player. I end up playing acoustic as often as electric live, and play some gigs on bass as well. For Bass and acoustic, the player would be fine for my needs. though even here, while the Stage is overkill, it's not THAT big, and at least if I need to edit, I don't need to connect to my phone or tablet to do so. The more visible tuner on the screen is convenient as well.

For the OP, it doesn't sound like he owns much gear currently. If so, the Stage would make a ton more sense than the Player. You don't need to worry about an external midi controller for external effects unless you already HAVE external effects you prefer to use over Kemper's built in effects. And if you DO end up adding one or two complex pedals, say something like the H90, the Stage's ability to send PC messages on Rig changes, might be enough, though your board will be a little bigger. Otherwise, the built in effects on the KPA are excellent, so unless someone expresses the desire for a more modular setup with external pedals, I'd recommend the Stage every time. They can always expand their board if they want to, benefiting from the Stage's PC messages and effect loops. If years later they have a large board full of pedals doing the heavy lifting, sell the Stage and get a Player.

If you don't need the smallest device ; Stage with no hesitation

I think if you already have a pedalboard of effects, the Player is the choice. If they had offered a Player back when I dumped my large pedalboard full of Fulltone and Strymon pedals, amp switcher, tuner, etc., that’s exactly what I would have bought. But they didn’t so I dumped my existing board and went with a Rack and Remote - and have loved it. I think starting from scratch today I’d still go with a Stage or Rack/Remote for the reasons stated above about having to add so much the Player that you end up more costly than the Stage.

I can't tell what's better for you, but I'm totally pleased with my Stage. So I suggest a Stage. But if you already own many high end stomp boxes (and are proficient and happy with them), you may pay attention to that *Player-versus-Stage* question.