PowerHead with Kab

  • The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Head/Rack

    Hi all, apologies if this has been covered to death, but after searching extensively, I haven’t found the answer to this specific question.

    I have a powered Head with the passive Kab connected via the speaker output. I’ve enabled Kemper Kone, and enabled Monitor Cab Off.

    My question is, should I also disable the cabinet on the stack? It seems like selecting Monitor Cab Off would do this automatically, or at least bypass the cabinet part of the stack. But switching the cabinet on and off has a dramatic effect on the sound.

    Also, switching between speaker models with the cabinet turned off changes the tone, but switching monitor cab on/off doesn’t really have any effect at all (other than letting me switch the speaker model).

    Can anyone explain these options and how they should effect the signal in this setup?

    Thanks in advance for any guidance on this.

  • Monitor cab off allows the main output to still use the speaker cab component that’s why it isn’t bypassed completely and ‘off’ visually on the button.

    Not sure on the turning off cab and hearing changes in tone. You mean physically switching the Cabinet switch off then through the Kone cabinet you hear changes?

  • ...You mean physically switching the Cabinet switch off then through the Kone cabinet you hear changes?

    Yeah, exactly. It's a very dramatic change.

    There seems to be 3 different "layers" to the cabinet stuff: Kone On/Off, Monitor Cab On/Off, Cabinet On/Off

    With Kone On, Monitor Cab Off, and Cabinet On, it sounds kind of muddy and vague, But with Kone On, Monitor Cab Off, and Cabinet Off, it sounds kind of harsh. Just wondering which way I should be using it and then tweaking other things to get it sounding better.

  • You keep the Cab Block On and just set Kemper Kone on and Monitor Cab off. I usually keep Pure Cabinet On as well. Turning off the Cab Block is like running DI with no speaker at all and sounds dreadful.

    Got it. So I guess it begs the question, what does selecting "Monitor Cab Off" actually do?

  • Checking the box means you chose the described state of ‘monitor cab = off’ which is what you want to happen if you are sending a monitor output to a cone. It literally means the cab component of the Rig is not sent through the Monitor output. And since it only references the Monitor output you can assume it doesn’t affect the Main outputs.

    I think it is a language translation thing that produced the verbiage to include the “off” in the label instead of just labeling it ‘Monitor Cab’ and then toggling of the switch produced the ‘off’ or ‘on’ indication.

  • Monitor cab off removes the Cab section from that signal path.

    That way, you don’t get the cab sim that’s part of the rig going to the monitor out. Otherwise you’d have the cab sim going to the Kone or to a regular guitar speaker. Neither of which is meant to receive the cab sim.

  • Monitor cab off removes the Cab section from that signal path.

    That way, you don’t get the cab sim that’s part of the rig going to the monitor out. Otherwise you’d have the cab sim going to the Kone or to a regular guitar speaker. Neither of which is meant to receive the cab sim.

    Hmm, that doesn't seem to be what's happening for me. Checking the box for "Monitor Cab Off" still let's me disable and enable the cab block (which is very audible). If it disabled the cab sim from the signal path, then manually turning off the cab button shouldn't have any effect.

    Checking the box means you chose the described state of ‘monitor cab = off’ which is what you want to happen if you are sending a monitor output to a cone. It literally means the cab component of the Rig is not sent through the Monitor output. And since it only references the Monitor output you can assume it doesn’t affect the Main outputs.

    I think it is a language translation thing that produced the verbiage to include the “off” in the label instead of just labeling it ‘Monitor Cab’ and then toggling of the switch produced the ‘off’ or ‘on’ indication.

    But wouldn't you typically want to disable the cab when using a Kemper Kone or Kab (via the main or speaker out)? Why would that setting only effect the output that wouldn't be used to feed an actual guitar cab?

  • If you kill the cab in the signal chain you kill it for the whole Rig.
    Many players will want to have both outputs available but only on the Monitor output can you have the Imprints to a cone loaded cabinet.

    So leaving the ‘cab block’ active, but bypassed, only at the Monitor out, you can send the full rig *with cab block* to mains and still have it bypassed via the Monitor off switch to your cone loaded Kab on stage.

  • Ok, so after a bit more testing, it seems the Speaker out is actually part of the "Monitor" path, but only sometimes (depending on if Kone is enabled or not).

    So if Kone is on, then checking the "Monitor Cab Off" box and turning off the Cab block both have a big effect on the sound. In other words, I can turn both of them on, and it will change the sound on both clicks.

    If Kone is off, then the cab block only effects the sound if Monitor Cab Off is unchecked. To be honest, this is the behavior I would expect. But for some reason, Kone seems to cause an additional layer of "cabinet emulation" on the cab block (which is not bypassed by enabling "Monitor Cab Off").

    It seems like the Kone feature is letting the MCO setting and the Cab block to double up cab emulation on the speaker output. Does anyone know what's actually happening with these different settings?

  • Ok, I think I've somewhat figured this out by scouring the manual. It seems "Monitor Cab Off" actually has nothing to do with monitors, cabs, or having them in the signal chain. It is apparently just an EQ of sorts designed to switch the Kone between full range, and an emulated range of a guitar speaker. I cannot imagine the logic of calling it "Monitor Cab Off", but at least it now makes sense why it has a different effect on the signal than turning the cab block off.

    Now the questions is, why does the Kemper Kab sound kind of terrible? Like, I'm comparing it side x side with amps that I've profiled, and it's like not even close. It sounds like it's playing through a cardboard tube or something. Is the Kab just meant to be a vague approximation of a real guitar cab in a room? Or should it be as indistinguishable from the real thing that the 1000s of review videos of the Kemper claim it to be? I suppose the verbiage in the manual saying not to mic the Kab/Kone suggests the former.

  • Ok, it's starting to make some sense, albeit in a dumb way. Apparently If Kone is not enabled, then checking Monitor Cab Off actually does turn off the Cab block. But if Kone is enabled, it applies a filter and allows for the Imprint feature. Not sure why there isn't just a different button instead of changing the functionality of a button depending on another button, but not changing it's name. Still not loving the sound quality of the Kab though. Profiles are sounding substantially better through a regular guitar cab with all the Kone/Imprint/Monitor Cab stuff just turned off.

  • Im not sure what you have going on but I’ll take few guesses. Are the profiles you made DI (without a speaker cab) or Studio (with a mic’s speaker/ cab)?

    The DI profiles need a real speaker before you can use them. Either a cab sim or a real speaker in the room that you send the Rig output to after it is has been amplified by a separate amplifier.

    If you run a DI profile (a DI amp profile will be terrible without running through a speaker) straight to a Kab and then you EQ it to not sound brittle and harsh ….then send that out the Monitor into a Kab I’m betting it will sound bad, muffled and wooly etc.

    In the Output section (or Stack section maybe ?) you can send the signal from that point in the chain to an output, so be sure you are sending the full Rig with any required speaker/ cab component so you get the proper results.

  • I suppose the verbiage in the manual saying not to mic the Kab/Kone suggests the former.

    The reason for not micing the Kone is simply duemto its design. It has two separate cones mounted concentrically which causes phase,alignment issues when a microphone is placed in front of them. A regular guitar speaker is a single point source with no such phase issues (unless you use more than pne mic and they are not properly phase aligned.

  • Ok, I think I've somewhat figured this out by scouring the manual. It seems "Monitor Cab Off" actually has nothing to do with monitors, cabs, or having them in the signal chain. It is apparently just an EQ of sorts designed to switch the Kone between full range, and an emulated range of a guitar speaker. I cannot imagine the logic of calling it "Monitor Cab Off", but at least it now makes sense why it has a different effect on the signal than turning the cab block off.

    Now the questions is, why does the Kemper Kab sound kind of terrible? Like, I'm comparing it side x side with amps that I've profiled, and it's like not even close. It sounds like it's playing through a cardboard tube or something. Is the Kab just meant to be a vague approximation of a real guitar cab in a room? Or should it be as indistinguishable from the real thing that the 1000s of review videos of the Kemper claim it to be? I suppose the verbiage in the manual saying not to mic the Kab/Kone suggests the former.

    To your first point, not sure if it helps but the Kone was introduced only a couple of years ago but the Monitor Cab off function has been there from the start. So I assume that it might seem slightly illogical because the Kone has had to fit in to the original design and maintain all the previous options - TBH I get confused on it and have tried not to understand it, but just set it how the manual says.

    Why does the Kab sound terrible? I've been using mine since its launch and I love it and had so many positive compliments on my backline sound. So for me, it does successfully emulate the amp in the room sound.

    Therefore I suspect its one of the following:

    1) Double check you signal path is correct. I NEVER touch the main cab button, leave it on. Its not a great FRFR cab in my opinion so definitely use the imprints to make the most of it. Play with the imprints, they should make a noticable difference

    2) Every monitor solution ( FRFR, Guitar cab) makes a significant change to the sounds. When I switched from guitar cab to FRFR I found my profiles I was using were awful and I'd eq'ed the hell out of them to stop them sounds muddy and the same. My point is, start with a profile and setting you know is good by checking via headphones or from the main out and work from there.

    3) You just may not like the sound of it, some people don't. I think this is unlikely describing what you are hearing, it almost sounds like when someone switched off the cab block and then gets a truly awful sound and so far removed from the original rather than one that isn't to your taste - but its a possibility.

    Sorry I can't be of more help but hope you find the issue.