Beginner steps to get a better sound through studio monitors

    The Profiler Model referred to in this thread is ...
    ☑️ Profiler Stage

    Hi everyone,

    Hope everyone is well, I'm new to the forum and hope this post isn't too redundant.
    I have a Kemper Stage and I can't seem to get a convincing sound through my monitors.
    I have tried fiddling with EQ, cabinet models, output and sample rate...but I am not getting great results...While the KS sounds great through the power input of my Boss amp, when I try it through headphones or my studio monitors the difference in tone and dynamics is quite stark.

    Clean sounds are ok, but the overdriven and distorted sounds I have tried are underwhelming.
    What am I missing? What steps would you get a better sound? Is the difference due to the size of the speakers?

    Here's my configuration:
    Kemper>S/PIDF cable>Focusrite Scarlett 8I6, M-Audio BX5 speakers.

    Thank you for reading me :)

    If your cleans sound good, it is because they have a lot of dynamic range.

    Higher gain sounds have NO dynamic range by their nature of being a clipped/overly compressed waveform.

    The freqs that tell your brain it sounds good are Highs( 2.5k and up) and Lows. These also tell your brain "this sound is close to me". Most studio monitors have a very flat high freq response. And most guitar profiles have no bass response. So high gain ends up being almost ALL MIDS with no dynamics, which tell your brain "this sound is far away from me" and "it is dull".

    The more gain you have the more you are relying on the lows to have some dynamic range. The mids and highs will have no dynamic range. If you record high gain guitar you will see the volume is constant until you start chugging. Then it gets twice as loud. Because most gain requires removal of lows before the gain stage. Then the lows are boosted back up.

    I have fought with your problem for years when I got my Kemper. My answer was different speakers.

    My Kemper sounded great thru cheap speakers and sounded flat and lifeless thru my monitors. Cheap speakers are all highs and lows, sound great. Monitors are very flat, sound bad.

    I ended up replacing the tweeters in my monitors and now the Kemper shines. If I boosted the highs the Kemper became shrill and harsh. New tweeters was the only way to liven them up to get around the natural boring response of the original tweeters.

    Thank you for explaining, it makes much more sense now.

    I'll try to see if the situation changes with different speakers and tweaking the EQ accordingly.
    As far as the input and output menu on the Kemper do you have any other tips?

    Cheers!

    You have to remember that a single guitar is going to sound pretty thin outside of a mix. You can add more low end EQ to the tone but that usually gets cut anyway in a mix. A bass track really fills out and thickens the guitar tone. Studio Monitors are better suited for mixing tracks and not for a stand-alone guitar sound until after your ears get accustomed to them.

    I would look up some iso tracks of your favorite guitarist and tones and then pay particular attention to how they sound with your monitors. Don't just listen but really study how they sound and then base your profile tweaks on that.

    I'm learning this stuff as I go, too!

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    You probably dont want to change the Kemper output if you are going to record. You dont want to record the over emphasized sound.

    If you are recording dont change anything and just know in your head the Kemper sounds great, just not on those speakers by itself. Like V8 says here all the time, turn it on and play dont worry about it.

    If you are just playing and NOT recording, you can adjust the Kemper output or the signal going to your monitors. But be aware the filters used will be low Q filters (they will affect a wide frequency range). So they will work fine but may not be the absolute best. You will probably want more bass and presence.

    You could look for some brighter IR/CABs. I make my own IRs and EQ them. It is a rabbit hole that never ends.

    Buy a graphic EQ and place it between the Kemper and your monitors. Then you can turn it off/on when recording or playing.

    If you are on a PC, there are software companies that try to run EQs to flatten your speakers. You may be able to tweak them to sound not flat.

    Like I said my specific speakers, the tweeters had a natural sound that just didnt work with the Kemper. Adjusting the EQ into them just enhanced some unwanted freqs. So they got brittle or shrill sounding. Like the clack of your pick hitting the string became super annoying. Your mileage will vary.

    MICHAEL BRITT

    One of the premier profile sellers is M.BRITT. People probably love his profiles because he makes them so they all can be switched between each other without drastic changes in volume and tone. Usually using the same speaker cabinet. So once you get your Kemper tuned up to your monitors, you can change profiles and not have to redo everything. I am not saying to buy profiles, just giving a reason why it works for some people. And what profilers are trying to do. And why going thru the free profiles will have varied results since everyone is doing it different.

    THX for this insight, much appreciated, have you tried a Kemper Kabinet or a similar FR active speaker? I have a toaster (unpowered) and bought the Powered Kabinet, the overdriven, even distorted sound is just so full, I really like it.

    Quote from BayouTexan

    You have to remember that a single guitar is going to sound pretty thin outside of a mix. You can add more low end EQ to the tone but that usually gets cut anyway in a mix. A bass track really fills out and thickens the guitar tone. Studio Monitors are better suited for mixing tracks and not for a stand-alone guitar sound until after your ears get accustomed to them.

    I would look up some iso tracks of your favorite guitarist and tones and then pay particular attention to how they sound with your monitors. Don't just listen but really study how they sound and then base your profile tweaks on that.

    I'm learning this stuff as I go, too!

    do you have any examples where you have used a iso track and if so which one / where. I’m learning this as I go along and I spend more time reading and watching videos than I do with the equipment these days. Wish there was a course I could go on lol

    Not so impressive outside the track as you will see.... very thin and yucky ....but in the mix is Wunderbar! The other instruments help round out the guitar tone more than one would believe. Bass and drums are your friend. Acoustic is totally different and can stand on its own.

    Note you can use RipX to pull out tracks from your favorite songs to study tone...

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    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Great thanks. Is ripx the best way to do this then? I see it’s £100 approx. I have Logic Pro I’m assuming you can’t isolate a track from here

    Quote from gmc_100

    Great thanks. Is ripx the best way to do this then? I see it’s £100 approx. I have Logic Pro I’m assuming you can’t isolate a track from heY

    There are many tools to separate instruments. I use Gaudio Studio, it's free and works well. But none of these are good enough to completely separate the guitar track into it's original form. It is not possible and there are errors. Unless the isolated track came from original studio track, it will not be a fully accurate representation of the original guitar sound. I would be careful with assuming that the separated track represents the original tone.

    I disagree. It is the accurate tone because it is what was recorded. You can't get more accurate than that. But I agree that these programs leave some overlays of the other instruments but it's not enough to be concerned with for studying purposes. Use it as a tool.

    I think the main conception is that someone will say "my tone sounds thin, Why?" when it sounds thin outside a mix no matter who's tone it is. So, you make the tone sounds good in a mix not outside of it - even though we all start there.

    There are many times I think I have a good tone, and then when I mix it with bass and drums it sounds muddied and poop. So, I have to find another profile or tone to use.

    As for getting good sound out of studio monitors, there are many techniques to get the best out of what you have; placement of the monitors, listening position, proper volume, acoustic treatment, and calibration software all come into play. Best advice is to play your favorite songs thru your monitors and when you are happy with what they put out tonally then use that as your reference.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.

    Your statement is conflicted. How can it both be the accurate tone and have overlays. BTW, pieces of of the original guitar track will be removed and overlayed onto other tracks. Only a perfect separate will guarantee full accuracy and that is not possible. So, only the original, isolated recorded track is fully accurate. And if you listen to it on utube, it is further degraded, but that is an other discussion.

    Any track from separator software is not exactly what was recorded and will therefore not fully represent the original recording. By the way, this is not debatable. It is a fact.

    Quote from lbieber

    Your statement is conflicted. How can it both be the accurate tone and have overlays. BTW, pieces of of the original guitar track will be removed and overlayed onto other tracks. Only a perfect separate will guarantee full accuracy and that is not possible. So, only the original, isolated recorded track is fully accurate. And if you listen to it on utube, it is further degraded, but that is an other discussion.

    Any track from separator software is not exactly what was recorded and will therefore not fully represent the original recording. By the way, this is not debatable. It is a fact.

    My experience with RipX is the guitar tone is there without subtraction of overlays but with addition of overlays. Anyway, it's close enough to study tone without having to stand next to the Artist in a studio alongside his equipment. No one is capable of getting the exact tone even the Artist on the same day in the same studio.

    The OP asked for "beginner steps". And I am sure we have offered him steps to learn beyond his current predicament.

    Larry Mar @ Lonegun Studios. Neither one famous yet.