Player with MIDI footswitches

1st Official Post

    Hi there. Since I already spent some time on the forum without finding a specific thread (correct me if I am wrong) I thought of creating a new thread dedicated to external control options for the Player. First of all, I already enjoy playing powered toasters (with remotes) in my band since 10 years ago, plus a non-powered rack at home, with a variety of midi footswitches. Now that I finally got my Player, I am exploring the same MIDI control options as we plan to use them as a more convenient fly-in solution.

    I connected my Tech 21 Midi Mongoose to the Player using the first rendition of the ESI MIDI-USB cable, previously tested for functionality with a midi keyboard. The Mongoose only transmits PC via Channel 1, but since the Player is set to Omni, this should not be a problem. However, pressing a button on the Mongoose did not change a rig on the Player. I perused the manual but it did not contain any specific info on how to hook up and set up external MIDI controllers with the Player. Nor did I find any MIDI-related setting on the Player and in the Rig Manager.

    It's possible that I may have missed something, possibly something quite obvious, even, so that's why I am looking for advice here :) It looks like we're going the Morningstar MC8 way, which seems to be able to replicate as much as possible from what the Remote offers, plus the addition of Exp Pedals. I know that the MC8 is a very capable and highly-customizable unit, so I have little concern about what it can do.

    However, until it arrives, I'd still be willing to see if the Player changes rigs with an ordinary MIDI footswitch hooked up to a casual MIDI > USB-A cable.

    Thanks!

    Yes, I do believe that the KPA cured my GAS.

    Quote from wheieck

    It depends on the Midi-Device you use - I tested the Moongoose successful with a Swissonic Midicable and also with a Kenton Midi USB Host connected to the USB B port

    Will try again with the same cable AND a MidiMan converter, then gonna get another MIDI -USB cable to test it. So far nothing works, even though the Tech21 Mongoose works perfectly with my rack Kemper...

    Yes, I do believe that the KPA cured my GAS.

    Quote from crivat

    Will try again with the same cable AND a MidiMan converter, then gonna get another MIDI -USB cable to test it. So far nothing works, even though the Tech21 Mongoose works perfectly with my rack Kemper...

    Hi crivat, do you happen to know how to correctly turn off the Player? Couldn't find anything about that in the manual. Is it donbe merely by unplugging/turning off the power supply?

    Quote from Mannemer

    Hi crivat, do you happen to know how to correctly turn off the Player? Couldn't find anything about that in the manual. Is it donbe merely by unplugging/turning off the power supply?

    Looks like that.plenty of other gear works the same way. I guess that's why "always make sure to save the rig" pops up pretty much everywhere :)

    Yes, I do believe that the KPA cured my GAS.

    • Official Post
    Quote from crivat

    Hi there. Since I already spent some time on the forum without finding a specific thread (correct me if I am wrong) I thought of creating a new thread dedicated to external control options for the Player. First of all, I already enjoy playing powered toasters (with remotes) in my band since 10 years ago, plus a non-powered rack at home, with a variety of midi footswitches. Now that I finally got my Player, I am exploring the same MIDI control options as we plan to use them as a more convenient fly-in solution.

    I connected my Tech 21 Midi Mongoose to the Player using the first rendition of the ESI MIDI-USB cable, previously tested for functionality with a midi keyboard. The Mongoose only transmits PC via Channel 1, but since the Player is set to Omni, this should not be a problem. However, pressing a button on the Mongoose did not change a rig on the Player. I perused the manual but it did not contain any specific info on how to hook up and set up external MIDI controllers with the Player. Nor did I find any MIDI-related setting on the Player and in the Rig Manager.

    It's possible that I may have missed something, possibly something quite obvious, even, so that's why I am looking for advice here :) It looks like we're going the Morningstar MC8 way, which seems to be able to replicate as much as possible from what the Remote offers, plus the addition of Exp Pedals. I know that the MC8 is a very capable and highly-customizable unit, so I have little concern about what it can do.

    However, until it arrives, I'd still be willing to see if the Player changes rigs with an ordinary MIDI footswitch hooked up to a casual MIDI > USB-A cable.

    Thanks!

    So generally this should work and there is no other trick.

    The Player's dedicated Main Manual includes a MIDI chapter comparable to the manuals for the other PROFILER models. It includes all the MIDI comands the Player processes. Everything has been tested. We have no knowledge of any software issues in this area regardless if these comands are fed into the USB-A socket of the Player e.g. via a MIDI to USB interface or if these are fed into the USB-B socket from a PC software (for example DAW or MIDI OX) via the same cable used for Rig Manager and USB audio.

    I have personally tested a Behringer FCB1010 with Uno4Kemper chip via a MIDI to USB interface and it works. It's plug and play.

    I have connected a Rack with the Player via a MIDI to USB interface, activated "UI to MIDI" at the Rack and the Player follows the comands it knows. You can obviously not control features, that the Player doesn't offer e.g switching on/off effect module D. But the rest is plug and play.

    Up to now you cannot specify the receiving MIDI channel of the Player. But this should never cause the Player not to excute MIDI comands. It only causes, that it is executing comands on all 16 MIDI channels ("Omni"). This feature is planned for the next Player OS revision.

    Other than that the only "complexity", that comes to my mind, is the logic of the labelling of the 5-pin plugs of those USB to MIDI adapters. The plug labelled as "OUTPUT" is usually the output of that adapter device and belongs into the MIDI INPUT of the receiving device. The plug labelled as "INPUT" belongs into the MIDI OUPUT of the sending device. Sometimes these plugs show arrow symbols, but I experienced it always follows this same logic. So if you have accidentally plugged the adapters OUPUT-plug into the output of your sending device, nothing gets through.

    Thank you for your answer, Burkhard. So far I've connected one of the MIDI footswitches around i.e. the Midi Mongoose, to the Player using a regular 5-pin MIDI cable running into Input A of a Midiman, as in the photo below. From the Midiman, a regular USB A-to-B cable goes intro the Player, and everything works seamlessly. I was exceedingly happy to see there was no lag switching between rigs, just like on the rest of my KPAs. Congratulations to Kemper for this lagless switching! (this lag, btw, was the reason I retuned a HX Stomp XL last month).

    Now, obviously, the Mongoose only transmits via Channel 1 and can't be programmed for CC#, so it's a fair solution for simple switching rigs 1 to 5 during a live show. Anyway, I've been using 5 presets for my shows for ages now, so there's no issue here. However, on my preset 2 (Drive I call it), I sometimes morph in a phaser, whereas on my preset 3 (Power Drive I call it), i sometimes use "stompbox III" with a flanger.

    I know there is no morph right now on the Player, but the manual specifies CC numbers for "node effect I through IIII". I wonder whether I could access I to IIII with a Morningstar MC6/ MC8 MIDI footswitch, by programming some of the buttons to send the specific CC# to the Player. Needless to say that the Morningstar has a USB-B port and this means it should be plug-and-play with the Player, without the intermediate gear, the Midiman.

    Quote from crivat

    Hi there. Since I already spent some time on the forum without finding a specific thread (correct me if I am wrong) I thought of creating a new thread dedicated to external control options for the Player. First of all, I already enjoy playing powered toasters (with remotes) in my band since 10 years ago, plus a non-powered rack at home, with a variety of midi footswitches. Now that I finally got my Player, I am exploring the same MIDI control options as we plan to use them as a more convenient fly-in solution.

    I connected my Tech 21 Midi Mongoose to the Player using the first rendition of the ESI MIDI-USB cable, previously tested for functionality with a midi keyboard. The Mongoose only transmits PC via Channel 1, but since the Player is set to Omni, this should not be a problem. However, pressing a button on the Mongoose did not change a rig on the Player. I perused the manual but it did not contain any specific info on how to hook up and set up external MIDI controllers with the Player. Nor did I find any MIDI-related setting on the Player and in the Rig Manager.

    It's possible that I may have missed something, possibly something quite obvious, even, so that's why I am looking for advice here :) It looks like we're going the Morningstar MC8 way, which seems to be able to replicate as much as possible from what the Remote offers, plus the addition of Exp Pedals. I know that the MC8 is a very capable and highly-customizable unit, so I have little concern about what it can do.

    However, until it arrives, I'd still be willing to see if the Player changes rigs with an ordinary MIDI footswitch hooked up to a casual MIDI > USB-A cable.

    Thanks!

    You have to hook it up USB B on the Player.

    That’s how it works with me Airstep Multi. USB B (Player) —> USB C (Airstep)

    no!

    that might be true for your Airstep, but in this cause it is wrong advice!

    The ESI USB to MIDI interface is a *USB device*, so it has to be *hosted*, so it has to be connected to the 'A' port of the Player !

    This works.. it has been tested and verified with several MIDI interfaces. In this case maybe the DIN IN&OUT are swapped.

    Furthermore: the MC8 seems to have a 'B' port too... did you try to connect a USB A<->B cable (a.k.a 'printer cable'). From the specs I read that it even can be powered through that connector.... this should be the preferred way of connecting the MC8 anyway.

    Most of the recent control gear has a USB device port (=a USB B or a micro/mini port). The PROFILER can host those devices, and it is much more conveniant than DIN MIDI because IN&OUT cannot be swapped, and you don't need a seperate power cable.

    Because of these discussions people might get the impression USB midi is problematic, but in reality most of the time it will 'just work'

    • Official Post

    Regarding the use of the Effect Buttons I-IIII .... In principle, these are the same buttons, that the Remote and Stage offer. However, while these are physcial buttons at the Remote/Stage here these are virtual nodes, that could be assigned to the Player's footswitches OR triggered via MIDI CC# 75-78.

    By default the Player's FS 2 in the middle is configured as Effect Button I. You could for example assign module DLY with a Phaser in your Rig "Drive" and assign module B with a Flanger in Rig "Power Drive" to Effect Button I and use FS 2 to switch those on and off. You could even assign more effect modules by Rig (up to four) so that multiple effects switch on/off simultaneously or inversly.

    The other thing is: Your intended setup seems quite complicated and expensive. For example a Behringer FCB1010 with Uno4Kemper plus a MIDI-USB adapter is way cheaper and offers more functionality. Uno4Kemper chiptuning is not yet ready to send CC# 75-78 yet. But you could assign buttons in its upper row to effect modules A, B, DLY, REV,... individually and switch each of those modules in each Rig. I guess, there is a more cost-effective overall sotution for what you are trying to achieve.

    Hi,
    I have a Midi issue with my Kemper Profiler Player and my Hotone Ampero Control, connected via one USB cable (USB-A connected to Player and USB-B connected to Ampero Control).

    I have tested the Ampero Control directly to Midiview on a Windows computer so I know that it sends correct midi-data, and it works perfectly.

    I have read both these manual but don’t get this to work at all anyway:

    -KEMPER PROFILER Player Main Manual for OS 11.0

    -KEMPER PROFILER MIDI Parameter Documentation 8.6

    Please let me know what I'm doing wrong and what address and how I can activate Rig/Slot stomp 4 via midi (Momentary switch function)?

    I have tried a lot of combinations without success and here are some examples:

    CCC Test

    A Group (when pressed)

    Channel = Omni (tried Ch.1 also)

    Type = CC

    Data 1 = 53

    Data 2 = 1 (Also tried 127)

    B Group (when released)

    Channel = Omni (tried Ch.1 also)

    Type = CC

    Data 1 = 53

    Data 2 = 0 (Also tried 1, 127)


    CPC Test

    A Group (when pressed)

    Channel = Omni (tried Ch.1 also)

    Type = PC

    Data 1 = 53

    B Group (when released)

    Channel = Omni (tried Ch.1 also)

    Type = PC

    Data 1 = 53


    I also tried to activate Tuner from Ampero Control without success, for example like this:

    A Group (when pressed)

    Channel = Omni (tried Ch.1 also)

    Type = CC

    Data 1 = 31

    Data 2 = 1 (Also tried 127)

    B Group (when released)

    Channel = Omni (tried Ch.1 also)

    Type = CC

    Data 1 = 31

    Data 2 = 0 (Also tried 1, 127)

    maybe the problem is with Ampero's USB implementation. Could you provide us a so called USB device descriptor? This can be created easily on a Windows computer by using this tool :

    Thesycon - USB Descriptor Dumper Tool

    note : of course it is impossible for Kemper to solve issues with all external problematic USB midi devices, but we can try to investigate this a bit further.

    several external USB midi controllers have been reported to work fine, as well as several USB to DIN interfaces.. the Profiler's USB midi host function is functioning just fine for those.

    Quote from Kail76

    Wow, Thanks kpahuitsing
    Here is the USB device descriptor file.

    hmm... that USB descriptor looks OK, nothing strange going on there: this should work on the Player (as well as other models) Next thing would be to find out whether maybe the Ampero is causing a MIDI loop. This is tricky, we will discuss this internally and try to find a solution or work-around for this.

    Quote from Burkhard

    Regarding the use of the Effect Buttons I-IIII .... In principle, these are the same buttons, that the Remote and Stage offer. However, while these are physcial buttons at the Remote/Stage here these are virtual nodes, that could be assigned to the Player's footswitches OR triggered via MIDI CC# 75-78.

    By default the Player's FS 2 in the middle is configured as Effect Button I. You could for example assign module DLY with a Phaser in your Rig "Drive" and assign module B with a Flanger in Rig "Power Drive" to Effect Button I and use FS 2 to switch those on and off. You could even assign more effect modules by Rig (up to four) so that multiple effects switch on/off simultaneously or inversly.

    The other thing is: Your intended setup seems quite complicated and expensive. For example a Behringer FCB1010 with Uno4Kemper plus a MIDI-USB adapter is way cheaper and offers more functionality. Uno4Kemper chiptuning is not yet ready to send CC# 75-78 yet. But you could assign buttons in its upper row to effect modules A, B, DLY, REV,... individually and switch each of those modules in each Rig. I guess, there is a more cost-effective overall sotution for what you are trying to achieve.

    I have a Morningstar MC8 on the way, bought cheap in the US. Since it runs PC and CC via USB-B, it might be a plug and play solution for the Player, and yes, two of the buttons on the Player would solve the "stompbox problem". I used the FCB1010 extensively with the Kemper and AXE units, but eventually went over to the Kemper Remote which is a beast. However, the FCB is not backpack-friendly when it comes to fly-in shows, so here's why I am eyeing the MC8. The MC8 and the Player easily fit in my carry-on or even inside my Enki flightcase (albeit in danger of being lost together with the guitars in airports, hahaha).

    Will come with an update as soon as the Morningstar arrives from the US. Thank you for your valuable insight!

    Yes, I do believe that the KPA cured my GAS.

    Quote from crivat

    I have a Morningstar MC8 on the way, bought cheap in the US. Since it runs PC and CC via USB-B, it might be a plug and play solution for the Player, and yes, two of the buttons on the Player would solve the "stompbox problem". I used the FCB1010 extensively with the Kemper and AXE units, but eventually went over to the Kemper Remote which is a beast. However, the FCB is not backpack-friendly when it comes to fly-in shows, so here's why I am eyeing the MC8. The MC8 and the Player easily fit in my carry-on or even inside my Enki flightcase (albeit in danger of being lost together with the guitars in airports, hahaha).

    Will come with an update as soon as the Morningstar arrives from the US. Thank you for your valuable insight!

    I have an MC8 and I have connected it to the Player with a USB-B to USB-A cable from the USB port on the MC8 to the USB-A port on the Player. The Player powers the MC8 and the MC 8 sends PC and CC messages to the Player without a problem. In theory, an expression pedal attached to the MC8 should work with the Player as well, but I haven't tested that.

    Quote from kpahuitsing

    hmm... that USB descriptor looks OK, nothing strange going on there: this should work on the Player (as well as other models) Next thing would be to find out whether maybe the Ampero is causing a MIDI loop. This is tricky, we will discuss this internally and try to find a solution or work-around for this.


    Thanks for the support.
    I tried to elaborate with it today again but without any success. Here is a print of my signals in Midiview that I try to send to my Kemper Profiler Player.

    I only powered up the Hotone Ampero Control via the USB from Kemper Profiler Player last time, but connected the external power supply adapter to my Ampero Control today, but it did not make any differ.

    The last digit is 1 when button is pressed and 0 when released on the Ampero Control:
    -Row 1-2 is button one
    -Row 3-4 is button two
    -Row 5-6 is button four

    Would be very nice if the Kemper software allowed the user to be able to select Rig/stomp 4 & 5 via a simple 2-Way Foot Switch Controller instead so we could skip all these midi pedals otherwise :/

    I also noticed that the kemper buttons lag alot when the Ampero Control is connected to the Kemper via USB. Kemper behaves normally when USB is disconnected. I was not allowed to upload the clip directly but please see the attached video in the compressed file.