I like to discuss this topic here :
IMHO does profiling the complete chain (Amp, Speaker, Mic (placement)...) sound the best.
(the good 'old school' original profiles - now called 'studio profiles')
Profiling just the amp and use any other speaker cabinet or external IR sound different - but IMHO not better or at least not realistic.
Not done any testing myself but I think it depends.
If you want to run through a guitar cab, then profiling just the amp ( direct profile) is definitely more accurate.
If you use a direct profile and add IR's etc. I would suspect you are right. Why? Because there is no way to "profile" a cab, only remove from a Studio profile ( I think), which is always "different".
Better will always be subjective but accuracy I think that is correct 
I like to discuss this topic here :
IMHO does profiling the complete chain (Amp, Speaker, Mic (placement)...) sound the best.
(the good 'old school' original profiles - now called 'studio profiles')
Profiling just the amp and use any other speaker cabinet or external IR sound different - but IMHO not better or at least not realistic.
Funny. After reading your latest post showing your nice room with amps and gear I thought it would be great to have some direct profiles from you and some IR to combine.
I was a long time defender of authentic profiling chain...some remember.... Today, in my experience properly refined direct amp profiles combined with IR sound closer to the source chain than studio profiles of the same setup, most of the time. Despite direct amp profiles are being profiled after power amp section and IR shooting with neutral power amp for example.
I think refining only direct am profiles can get the amp part closer to source (bass, lower mids). While I often struggle to get studio profiles refined, sometimes no refining works better. IR work at least as good as Kemper cab, but I get the cabs, speaker, mic captured quicker, more reliable and can mix IR (different mic combinations...).
In my opinion the Kemper cabinets on studio profiles have always sounded better than IRs.
But there's so much talk about using IRs to save the Helix tones and other modellers using IRs that Kemper users got caught up in the IR hype.
Just my opinion! 🙂
- but IMHO not better or at least not realistic.
Using the word realistic when referring to digital amps has always driven me nuts.
If it sounds good and feels good to play…..who cares about being ‘realistic’?
My favorite clean profile is a ‘67 Fender Champ studio profile with the cab swapped to a Marshall 412. A combination would almost certainly never happen with real components.
In my opinion the Kemper cabinets on studio profiles have always sounded better than IRs.
But there's so much talk about using IRs to save the Helix tones and other modellers using IRs that Kemper users got caught up in the IR hype.
Just my opinion! 🙂
I use IR changes to get a better tone sometimes. It’s definitely a suck and see thing because I have no idea what speakers produce what tones so I just experiment. I’ve got closer to the tones I want doing this.
In my opinion the Kemper cabinets on studio profiles have always sounded better than IRs.
But there's so much talk about using IRs to save the Helix tones and other modellers using IRs that Kemper users got caught up in the IR hype.
Just my opinion! 🙂
I totally agree!
They sound different, not necessarily better, its a rabbit hole of more tonal variations...
For me, using DI profiles plus 3rd party IR's is the only way I've really managed to get the sounds I want on the Kemper. Studio profiles, too many variables, amp/cab/speakers/mics/mic positions - all have to be right to work with your pickups for the tone you want. With DI profiles, at least it's only the amp settings that have to be right (or at least in the ballpark) - can take a while to find the IR's you like, but once you do, you'll probably find a few you like that'll work for most things.
I wouldn't say there's any difference in terms of realism. Just do whatever works best for you. If you're finding studio profiles that do what you want, stick with those. If you're not quite finding the tones your after, or nothing seems to work quite right with your pickups, DI + IR might be the answer.
For me, using DI profiles plus 3rd party IR's is the only way I've really managed to get the sounds I want on the Kemper. Studio profiles, too many variables, amp/cab/speakers/mics/mic positions - all have to be right to work with your pickups for the tone you want. With DI profiles, at least it's only the amp settings that have to be right (or at least in the ballpark) - can take a while to find the IR's you like, but once you do, you'll probably find a few you like that'll work for most things.
I wouldn't say there's any difference in terms of realism. Just do whatever works best for you. If you're finding studio profiles that do what you want, stick with those. If you're not quite finding the tones your after, or nothing seems to work quite right with your pickups, DI + IR might be the answer.
I find the opposite. I’ve tried various IR packs and find they are all different but not better than the Studio Profiles. I always end up coming back to Studio profiles as the easiest and quickest way to get a killer sound for my tastes.
I totally agreed that neither is better or worse, just different (and different workflows). What ever works best for each individual is the right thing for them. One of the great things about the Kemper (and most of the other modern gear) is the flexibility to be able to use it however you want. 🤘
I delved into IR's when I had a Helix and found out that "less is more - and more better" but some people like them so I won't razz them about it. Just give me a V30, G12 , and a Jensen for a Fender and I am done. I'll do the rest with an EQ.
I used IR's a lot with my previous Atomic modeller live rig with great results. However I genuinely don't think they add anything to the Kemper experience. And I defintiely prefer studio profiles to FOH and Kabinet for all my needs.
To re-iterate - it's not really about adding anything, or better sound, or more realism etc. - it just that it gives you an extra layer of control over the final tone. If you're not getting what you want from studio profiles, using IR's can be very useful. Would have sold my Kemper for a modeler long ago if I hadn't decided to give IR's a try.
Also, if I hadn't quickly found some IR's I liked (Celestion, esp. G21M65's), I'd have probably given up on IR's too - as with profiles, you have to buy quite a lot to find what you need, and will probably end up using only a few! And similarly, the ones people rave about are not always the right ones for your needs (e.g. not yet found any use for York Audio or Ownhammer)
To re-iterate - it's not really about adding anything, or better sound, or more realism etc. - it just that it gives you an extra layer of control over the final tone. If you're not getting what you want from studio profiles, using IR's can be very useful. Would have sold my Kemper for a modeler long ago if I hadn't decided to give IR's a try.
Also, if I hadn't quickly found some IR's I liked (Celestion, esp. G21M65's), I'd have probably given up on IR's too - as with profiles, you have to buy quite a lot to find what you need, and will probably end up using only a few! And similarly, the ones people rave about are not always the right ones for your needs (e.g. not yet found any use for York Audio or Ownhammer)
what you describe is the way you got there, which is totally legitimate and a good use of IR's.
As Wheresthedug I do the opposite, I just try a profile, if it doesn't work, I move on but totally appreciate your way...
adding one aspect here: I tend to use IRs to have more consistency across different rigs - easier to combine multiple amps (clean, dirty mid-gain, high-gain) for a gig and not have to suffer from sonic whiplash...
I pick a "generalist" speaker IR that works well with a broad range of amp types (fender-y, marshall-y vox-y) and use DI or merged profiles. I get the difference in feel across the amps, but retain a more homogenous sound characteristic across them. This way I can use profiles from different sources / vendors and make them play together nicely.
The other advantage: this helps me with consistency across my recording setup (mostly plugins and IRs) and live setup (Kemper / QC). I can just pick the cab IRs that work best in the finished mix and transplant them to my live setup.
BTW: My main sources for IRs are currently SuperCabinet by Overloud and Mikko2 by ML Soundlabs - both allow you to "mix" your own cab from multiple cab and mic IRs and export the result to an IR that I can use elsewhere. Beyond this, there is Ownhammer's Rockbox that I've come to like a lot recently.
adding one aspect here: I tend to use IRs to have more consistency across different rigs - easier to combine multiple amps (clean, dirty mid-gain, high-gain) for a gig and not have to suffer from sonic whiplash...
I pick a "generalist" speaker IR that works well with a broad range of amp types (fender-y, marshall-y vox-y) and use DI or merged profiles. I get the difference in feel across the amps, but retain a more homogenous sound characteristic across them. This way I can use profiles from different sources / vendors and make them play together nicely.
The other advantage: this helps me with consistency across my recording setup (mostly plugins and IRs) and live setup (Kemper / QC). I can just pick the cab IRs that work best in the finished mix and transplant them to my live setup.
BTW: My main sources for IRs are currently SuperCabinet by Overloud and Mikko2 by ML Soundlabs - both allow you to "mix" your own cab from multiple cab and mic IRs and export the result to an IR that I can use elsewhere. Beyond this, there is Ownhammer's Rockbox that I've come to like a lot recently.
I totally get what you’re saying about consistency, but exactly the same could be achieved by using one cab with different amps to have a common EQ demoninator (which is exactly what a cab is).
E.g. Greenback cabs play nicely with Marshall, Vox and even Fender amp tones.
the same could be achieved by using one cab with different amps to have a common EQ demoninator
...which is pretty much the same as using an IR - just selected in a different way...
E.g. Greenback cabs play nicely with Marshall, Vox and even Fender amp tones.
These days, I'm using IRs of Celestion G12-65 speakers. For an "all-purpose" speaker, I prefer these to classic Greenbacks - more balanced, less "honky", so they work nicely with Fenders and Voxes. They wouldn't be my choice for a more modern Metal sound with very tight lows and bright,metallic treble, but since this isn't my style anyhow, I'm fine 
- they're definitely good for a more "classic" metal sound when I need it.
Ownhammer have a very nice set of G12-65 IRs in their Rockbox offering.
