Neural Amp Modeler, a free amp profiler?!?

Quote from goldensheaf

Im hoping Kemper just upgrades the profing algorithm or whatever it needs too. I highly doubt he is going to lay down an be beaten in the field an market he developed. Not going to happen.......

I would like to see that. I'm all for it.

I'm just trying to look at it realistically.

I think DSP56300 (200 MIPs/core vs 2000 mips for rasberry pi 4 for example) is too slow to do the math with NN. Maybe another new product?

Besides, in my case, I prefer to have access to a solution in the form of a plugin because of what I wrote about - working in a DAW. Reamping each track with one device would take a lot of time. And anyway, I prefer to track the sound of all the guitar tracks at once. But as a live solution, absolutely.

So what happened to Kempers patent, did it run its course? too expensive to defend, I know nothing about these things, just like women.

Quote from Delinquent

So what happened to Kempers patent, did it run its course? too expensive to defend, I know nothing about these things, just like women.

I think the patent was very specific about one type of modeling / profiling. But I don't know much about it either. It would also be difficult to fight in the era of AI progress to limit this (guitar amp) area when there are already applications modeling the tone of voice of famous characters. Of course, I'm just speculating.

It would be enough not to specify what non-linear distortions the plugin imitates.

You could call it a plugin for profiling the non-linear black box response.

In fact some guys are profiling studio preamps and tape recorders with NAM.

There are another project focused on profiling audio compressors (time dependent response) :

https://csteinmetz1.github.io/tcn-audio-effects/

Plugin : https://github.com/csteinmetz1/neural-2a

Profiling: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%…9JQnZKnLB_2Qt2s https://github.com/csteinmetz1/micro-tcn

There is a lot going on in this field and I don't think any patent can stop it. And rightly so - because it would stop the development only for the profit of some company.

This is list of audio ai startups : https://github.com/csteinmetz1/ai-audio-startups

The free modelers, NAM and Proteus, suffer from tying a player to a computer, either laptop or desktop. Kemper was always about freeing you to take a box (toaster/rack) or a floorboard to gigs with your sounds inside for use. What the freebies have not done, nor are likely to do, is offer that portable hardware to rival Kemper, at least not for free.

That currently leaves Axe-FX, Kemper, Quad Cortex, or ToneX. Given the recent flush of new hardware based systems, could we see 5-7 more within three years?? What a time to be a geetar player!!

Quote from VegasG

The free modelers, NAM and Proteus, suffer from tying a player to a computer, either laptop or desktop.

Yes and no. There are a DIY and comercial projects that implement NAM or AI core to dedicated hardware or open hardware like Rb pi4 . Even on DaisySeed board. Yes - those are not mature solution - yet. But people gigs with laptops. Author Steven Atkinson was gigging with a laptop with NAM.

Quote from VegasG

The free modelers, NAM and Proteus, suffer from tying a player to a computer, either laptop or desktop. Kemper was always about freeing you to take a box (toaster/rack) or a floorboard to gigs with your sounds inside for use. What the freebies have not done, nor are likely to do, is offer that portable hardware to rival Kemper, at least not for free.

That currently leaves Axe-FX, Kemper, Quad Cortex, or ToneX. Given the recent flush of new hardware based systems, could we see 5-7 more within three years?? What a time to be a geetar player!!

not necessarily. The free version of TONEX for the iPad or iPhone doesn’t require a laptop or desktop runs beautifully on the iOS system. There are lots of programs that can host it as a plug-in and you can use all of the myriad of killer effects before and after the plug-in, as well as multiple instances of the plug-in to make dual/triple/quadruple, etc. parrellel chains. No need to buy any hardware other than an inexpensive way to connect the guitar to the iOS device. I am currently gigging this way with a trio, because I am using some sophisticated looping with a program called Loopy Pro that lets me fill out back and tracks really easily.

i’m still using my kemper with my hard rock band because it is a great portable solution as well and I’m very comfortable with it after using it for so many years. I don’t yearn for better sounds, the kemper gets me everything I need for just playing my part as guitar in that context.

I do hope that they release the neural amp modeler in an iOS format on the App Store. I’d be happy to pay for a version.

such a great time to be a guitarist!

After extensively testing NAM for a few weeks, I can say that it is a really cool piece of technology. Honestly, it is impressive for something this new and un-optimized. I have a pretty good setup for VSTs: I use a Lehle DI box into an PCIe RME interface. My setup can handle a buffer size of 32 @ 48 kHz without problem, so playing live is all good. I have found great profiles, great IRs, and great VST effect plugins to complement the core amplifier tones. I was totally satisfied with what I'm hearing... until I have switched on my Kemper again. I instantly liked my tones better through the Kemper. Its not easy to put my finger on why exactly. I'm definitely more familiar with the KPA and of course I have filtered out the best profiles suited for my playing style during the years, but there is something general about it which I like very much. It feels like home and I instantly feel like I can play better through it. It might be related to compression, or whatever input stage mojo... something, I do not know. What I know is that I like it very much. And this is an important thing. Personally I do not care about sounding exactly like a specific vintage Marshall from 1986. What I care about is recreating the best tones in my head and in a way that makes them play effortlessly. And in this, the KPA excels in my opinion. I'm starting to think about the KPA as an instrument of its own. It has a special character which I happen to like very much. But I can understand if this is a negative thing in the eyes of somebody else - after all adding its own character negatively affects the profiling functionality. If somebody does not like it... So long story short Kemper is still MY favorite - but the game just got a LOT more exciting. I wonder how Christoph and his company will be able to ride these new waves.

great review DanielRigler , I also felt much better going back to KPA. I must say however that I liked some tone on NAM very much too , it's a different XP, as well as using IR's , I thing the best on NAM is it's open model ( source & concept ) .

I was looking for a portable solution for a long time , and nam solved it right away , using all kind of plugins for guitar is also new for me & exciting.

the feel of the KPA and the fact some of us can write and put a track in soundcloud in 2 hours from scratch says it all for me, once you know your gear , it's an extension of your brain & hand , the ecosystem is perfect, it will take very for NAM to catch up to this level , but a great open source community can do wonders , it's impressive to see the job they have done so far , without commercial motivation behind , check their rig exchange

I really think C Kemper should open source part of the profiling code as it's no longer the ultimate one to benefit from a huge refresh from the community and maybe some NAM integration , I know I'm a dreamer , but that would be epic and would not undermine the KPA as one of the best professional solution.

The NAM solution is a curious one and I guess its inevitable......tech that starts as proprietary and exclusive eventually makes it into mass market/lower price points and I think this is true for all tech. The first DVD players were £500+, now you can get them for peanuts..

It will take time for this product to establish a basis and ecosystem, but it will happen.

The next question really is, where does this leave the current digital solutions - not just Kemper and Quad but Fractal and Line 6 who all play in the high end sound game and arguably 1 step behind IF the direction the market goes is sound capture/profiling?

I worry that CK will go - this is as far as I can go...

Quote from waraba

great review DanielRigler , I also felt much better going back to KPA. I must say however that I liked some tone on NAM very much too , it's a different XP, as well as using IR's , I thing the best on NAM is it's open model ( source & concept ) .

I was looking for a portable solution for a long time , and nam solved it right away , using all kind of plugins for guitar is also new for me & exciting.

the feel of the KPA and the fact some of us can write and put a track in soundcloud in 2 hours from scratch says it all for me, once you know your gear , it's an extension of your brain & hand , the ecosystem is perfect, it will take very for NAM to catch up to this level , but a great open source community can do wonders , it's impressive to see the job they have done so far , without commercial motivation behind , check their rig exchange

I really think C Kemper should open source part of the profiling code as it's no longer the ultimate one to benefit from a huge refresh from the community and maybe some NAM integration , I know I'm a dreamer , but that would be epic and would not undermine the KPA as one of the best professional solution.

I agree. Check out tonehunt:

https://tonehunt.org/

i think asking ck to add nam is silly .nam is good sure but the notes dont bloom and kemper does everything including running real footpedals in front if guthrie uses one its good enuf for me thanks

Quote from darthwain

its good enuf for me thanks

That's great! Well for sure you can't capture your pedals and run it in daw with more NAM instances to make whole guitar chain

I don't think that pure capturing is the solution, no matter how good it is. Browsing through hundreds of captures/profiles is as much of a PITA as trying to fine tune detailed modeler, like Fractal. The ultimate solution would be highly tunable profiles based on ultra detailed captures, where capture is a starting point for quick fine tuning. Which is pretty much what KPA is doing right now (and did for over 10 years now), but maybe after-capture tuning could be more detailed to faithfully do full gain sweep from 0 to 11, etc. Whoever does it first - wins.

Quote from piotrmaj

capture tuning could be more detailed to faithfully do full gain sweep from 0 to 11, etc.

I guess this concept is used in proteus.

i just want to say i profiled a NAM bassman last night. Had that wierd thing i dislike with the kemper, then i refined with the tone x refining audio an the NAMs wav file. Dramaticly improved the profile. Maybe the only prob is the self refining option were you play. An these guys have just discovered a better audio source for refining that works

Yes, there have already been such experiments and in fact the refining effect was better using such a signal. Maybe it's a lead.

It is possible that this could be the officially recommended method with the ready file available on the KPA website? But you'd probably have to test it hard on a few cases. It would rule out some arbitrariness and thus some disappointment and uncertain effects of profiling for some users.

I gave this tool a few more tries and made some great clips of a Dirty Shirley amp after falling in love with that tone

Here are a few guide lines if you want to try it :

• the installer puts the NAM in program/common/VST by default ( you cannot edit this , just copy the dll in your VST folder)
• Download the latest 0.72 version : 40% faster on your CPU
• tweak buffers between 32 ( pops and cracks ) and 512 ( slow latency ) , mine is setup @ 128 for instance with zero latency feel and no cracks
• Use the free NADIR instead of the provided IR loader , much more options and better feel to me ( including double mike positionning & presets like fredman classic etc) Stock NAdir IRs sounds great on my setup, this is what I used on my clip below. The download comes with a free & great amp
• NAM profiles pedal greatly : add one in front on another instance and here you go
• "Lite & feather" profiles will help to lighten the CPU load , especially if you run them in serial
• if you stack NAMs , remember to deactivate noise gates , you only need one in front , same for EQ ?
• use a free delay and verb on your VST
• render your NAM tracks if you plan to track multiple tracks on your project
• you can use multiple instances of NAM in // VOX + Marshall = no pb

here is my GoTo NAM profile : DirtyShirleyMini_crunch_G6

reacts like a KPA or amp to git vol pot , the best Hendrix Tone I could ever play , I 've got to profile this one for my KPA to see what's happening

it has some killer transparency in the high & mids , maybe it's due to the 4K mode of the SSL2+ , I cannot replicate it on my focusrite so far

Now the clip , it's very raw , no post FX :

sounds good

Im finally doin my own too. Took many times to get it right an I have to use 2 diff DAWS to reamp an export right paramaters. Real amps splater throw off treble frequencies and zzz. I like NAM just mirrors that. Enjoying it. No woofiness or compression added

Hi , here is another shot of NAM , maybe the last from me on the forum , I don't want push anyone from the KPA .

This time I used NAM on all bass and guitars , and some pedal captures from tonehunt as well as a real SF300 super fuzz on the 3rd lead

No mastering on this track , no post EQ , it's pretty live & raw & just a little demo

details in the SC page