Kemper doesn't work for Gn'R guitarists

I completely disagree. My primary Rigs are profiles I made of my own Jubilee (which I was playing before I ever heard of GNR). The Profiler cleans up just like my own Marshall. If it hadn't, I wouldn't have kept it when I bought it in 2013.

I would have to agree with Paul as well. My Kemper cleans up, with my volume, as well

Maybe just me, but I find that profiles with some gain on them clean up and sound good clean with just the volume input while you can't get a clean profile to dirty up as nicely.

Of course, I don't really do this myself. I greatly prefer to punch a button to go from a heavy to a clean or vice-versa. It would never occur to me to use my volume knob live to go from one extreme to the other. Maybe from a clean to some dirt and back, but it seems like most of the big changes (for cover songs) require more than just a change in gain. Generally need another rig and processing chain completely.

Now I need to go watch some GNR and see how they work their guitars on stage

It was the Kemper that opened my eyes to the tonal shaping from the volume knob. Up until then I was using the knob full open and that was it. I guess when you have snapshots of really awesome amps and they have that touch sensitivity, you start to appreciate the possibilities.

One of the very few things that I don't like about the KPA is that the tone doesn't change when I roll back my guitar's volume. I know that is a good thing for a many players but a lot of amps, particularly non-master volume amps like 4 input Marshalls and tweed Fenders, brighten up when you roll back the guitar's volume when the amp is cranked. The KPA doesn't do that. The tone stays the same. I think that may be what Richard Fortus is talking about.

Quote from ba_hill

One of the very few things that I don't like about the KPA is that the tone doesn't change when I roll back my guitar's volume. I know that is a good thing for a many players but a lot of amps, particularly non-master volume amps like 4 input Marshalls and tweed Fenders, brighten up when you roll back the guitar's volume when the amp is cranked. The KPA doesn't do that. The tone stays the same. I think that may be what Richard Fortus is talking about.

Are you playing as loud as you would with one of those amps? I hear it at stage volume.

Quote from paults

Are you playing as loud as you would with one of those amps? I hear it at stage volume.

I rarely get to play at stage volume but even when not cranking a Plexi reissue all the way the difference in tone between when the guitar is on 10 and when it's on 3 is noticeably greater than the difference with the KPA. With the Plexi reissue (and also with a Deluxe Reverb) it's similar to how a Fuzz Face cleans up and brightens up when you turn the guitar's volume down. Not as much as that but similar. I haven't experienced that with my KPA. The KPA seems to me to respond more like an amp with a master volume that gets its distortion mainly from the preamp. In my experience those usually don't brighten up much, even though they may clean up, when you turn down the guitar's volume.

Never heard of Richard Fortus. Can't imagine why he'd need a digital amp with his requirements. Don't think he'd be able to drive one either.

Quote from ba_hill

One of the very few things that I don't like about the KPA is that the tone doesn't change when I roll back my guitar's volume. I know that is a good thing for a many players but a lot of amps, particularly non-master volume amps like 4 input Marshalls and tweed Fenders, brighten up when you roll back the guitar's volume when the amp is cranked. The KPA doesn't do that. The tone stays the same. I think that may be what Richard Fortus is talking about.

I have not experienced a huge difference between tube amps and the Kemper in terms of rolling back the volume. I've played mine side by side against an actual amp I profiled and they clean up the same. That was using the same 2x12 guitar cab at about the same volume though, so the Fletcher Munson effect was the same.

He's entitled to his opinion but my experience has been the the KPA behaves almost exactly like my valve amps when I ride the volume pot. This true with my master volume Messed and my non master volume THD BiValve.

Quote from Sollazzon

Just found this article

where Richard Fortus says:

"Slash and I both tried Kempers out in rehearsal once, and it doesn't work for us,” he said. “For what I do with GNR, it doesn't work. Because we rely so much on our volume knobs on our guitars.

"So, in other words, I use a single-channel amp with Guns, and it's all about the volume knob. So if I want a clean sound, I just roll my volume down. With a tube amp, it gets clean and sparkly. And Slash does the same thing."

He continued, “There's always so many tones just within your volume control, you know? And if you watch live videos both of us are constantly on our volume knobs. We’re always just subtly adjusting things to get the exact sound that we want.

"Now, if I was in Muse or Metallica, and I was just playing open, and I was either getting a really clean sound or a really dirty sound, a Kemper would work, an Axe-Fx would work,” Fortus concluded. “But all subtleties and nuances are lost with that stuff.”

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Wow, this is so wrong.

Goes to show how uninformed people can be, famous or not.

Actually the Profiler can even enhance volume pot response of a profile vs its amp.

Slash is way to old school, this is where the comments will be coming from. Fortus says he uses digital stuff all the time

Quote from ba_hill

One of the very few things that I don't like about the KPA is that the tone doesn't change when I roll back my guitar's volume. I know that is a good thing for a many players but a lot of amps, particularly non-master volume amps like 4 input Marshalls and tweed Fenders, brighten up when you roll back the guitar's volume when the amp is cranked. The KPA doesn't do that. The tone stays the same. I think that may be what Richard Fortus is talking about.

My tween reverb cranked says otherwise (I dont crank it anymore, too loud for anywhere in the planet), and my friends 50W plexi the same, in vintage guitars without treble bleed circuits, the tone gets darker (as does the kemper). Nothing like what you are saying.

Quote from Sollazzon

"Slash and I both tried Kempers out in rehearsal once"

I think this may be the real issue (emphasis mine).

While I admittedly suck at dialing in tones (thank you, profilers!), until I got a Kemper I had to learn how to get what I wanted from my amps. Tube amps are not magic boxes. I promise you, if you don't know what you're doing you can make them sound like absolute crap. I have extensive experience to back this up.

As I've often mentioned, my first experiences with Kemper profiles were so bad that I almost sent it back. It didn't get returned at that point only because I understood that I didn't know what I was doing yet. After spending the time to figure out what I was doing wrong, and how to do it right, I ended up with gear that I've been very happy with. Anything I care about it doing I've taken the time to learn, and then it does it.

No matter what gear you're using, even something as "simple" as an old school tube amp, it takes time to figure out how to work it. If you're unwilling to spend the time required do that, it's never going to please you.

This just proves that some guitarist cannot gravitate to modeling. No harm done.

For me, the more important thing was that the amp respond to my playing and attack. Soft or muted playing should result in less gainey output, and spiking a note or notes should make it sizzle more and give it more grit.

KPA absolutely does this perfectly.

As for tube amps, I agree with those above. My tube amps were not perfect with respect to this. Some behave better than others under widely different inputs (as do various profiles).

Interesting thread though.

Quote from BayouTexan

This just proves that some guitarist cannot gravitate to modeling. No harm done.

So you did NOT click the link and read the interview? Fortus said:

"I use modeling technology every day. I've been using it for years, I've been using it since it first started with the Line 6 stuff. I did pop gigs where it was essential to be able to switch scene changes dramatically because if you're doing a pop gig, you're covering 20 different players...”

I think ba_hill mentioning a Fuzz is a good example, what the Kemper / digital still can NOT do. It is not only about cleaning up (gain), but interaction that the Kemper simple does not offer. If you don't know what I mean, I always post Pete Thorn. It is IMPOSSIBLE to recreate this behaviour with Kemper. Proven fact. And if you use the real pedal Kemper input still does not react perfect to pedals like the original amp you profiled did. The Strymon Iridium does a better job here, maybe because it has a an analog JFET front end?

Quote from Ibot39

I think ba_hill mentioning a Fuzz is a good example, what the Kemper / digital still can NOT do. It is not only about cleaning up (gain), but interaction that the Kemper simple does not offer.

surely digital can do it if the input impedance is correct. The fuzz thing happens because of the impedance loading on the pickups. I haven’t tried it but I believe Helix has a variable impedance function for that purpose.

Quote from Wheresthedug

surely digital can do it if the input impedance is correct. The fuzz thing happens because of the impedance loading on the pickups. I haven’t tried it but I believe Helix has a variable impedance function for that purpose.

Changing Impedance settings on the Helix it affects the analog input stage!! So this will affect the signal before converted to digital. The front end of the digital fuzz pedal does not see a load of the pickup - it does not do the same trick like you would expect from the real pedal. BTW Helix does take external pedals very bad - in comparison to real amp, Kemper, Iridium...