Direct Amp Profile issue (attenuator)

    Hi All,


    I’m trying to make a direct amp profile of my Super Reverb but the results are really bad... mainly the profile results in very low gain version of the amp.

    I’m using an IronMan ii as a load box and using its line out in the signal chain to create the profile. (Choosing distorted and no cab during setup).


    I tried using the speaker output from the Ironman but no matter how much I dialed down the return level it always clipped during profiling.


    Is there something I’m missing?


    profiling chain is:

    Guitar to kemper input. Kemper send to Amp in. Amp speaker out to Ironman. Ironman line out to kemper return.


    my current silent playing setup is:


    guitar>amp>Ironman ii (full load mode)> two notes cab M (for speaker emulation) >headphones


    I thought I could create a direct profile on kemper so I can just go kemper >Cab M And the results would be very close but it’s way off.


    thanks for the help

    Is there a reason why load boxes are not recommended?

    I have recently been using a Suhr Reactive Load IR. All seems to be working fine using the unfiltered out for the DI Profile and the IR output for the Studio Profile.

    Also have a Neve RNDI here but I thought just using the Suhr would be fine. ?

    Thanks for the help everyone!


    Is there any recommended workflow/gear for being able to create profiles silently?


    I understand that the load box will be different than an actual cab but my reference point is the amp through the load box and monitored through the Cab M speaker emulation so just trying to recreate that.


    I had looked at the main manual and there isn’t a lot of details on the direct profile. Is there somewhere else I should be looking?

    there are 2 pages including a graphic that explains how to take a direct amp profile in the main manual. What type of info are you missing?

    How to PROFILE an Amp without a Cabinet (Direct Amp PROFILEs)

    So far, we have taken PROFILEs of combinations of guitar amplifiers and guitar cabinets. We call these “Studio PROFILEs”. The purpose of a Direct Amp PROFILE is to capture the sound of your tube-amp including its power amp.

    When this PROFILE is later run through the internal Class D power amp of your PROFILER, or a separate solid- state power amp, into a guitar speaker, it will faithfully recreate the sound and feel of the original tube-amp. The Direct Amp PROFILE can later be merged with the respective cabinet portion of a Studio PROFILE. Alternatively, Direct Amp PROFILEs can be paired with arbitrary cabinet impulse responses, imported by our KEMPER Rig ManagerTM software (version 3 required). The result is a complete PROFILE that can run a physical guitar cabinet onstage for monitoring, and simultaneously feed the virtual guitar speaker sound to the main PA.

    While it is relatively straightforward to capture Direct Preamp PROFILEs from line level outputs of bass amps, or the send outputs of preamps, capturing them from tube amps that include the power tube section is a bit more challenging. It requires you to tap the sound where it is about to hit the guitar cabinet. This tap is the speaker output, where high voltage and high wattage occur, meaning you will need a dedicated DI box for this purpose. A specialized DI box like for example the KEMPER DI box can scale down the voltage to a line level signal, suitable for the PROFILER, on an XLR output jack. The high-power signal is forwarded to the guitar cabinet through a different output jack.

    PROFILING an Amp 299

    PROFILING an Amp 300

    Connections PROFILING with DI; on PROFILER Stage connect to SEND 1 and RETURN 1

     Why do I need my guitar cabinet when I want to capture a PROFILE without a cabinet?

    It's true, the sound of the speaker will not be captured in this case, but the complex impedance behavior of the speaker is still needed to create those oft-mentioned interactions between the power tube amp and the connected guitar cabinet. The DI box will ensure that there are real-life interactions for the PROFILING process to capture. Later, when the PROFILE is played back through the built-in Class D power amp, or an external solid-state power amp, it will recreate the same impedance situation to that of the connected guitar cabinet. This is the key to making

    our built-in power amp sound like a tube power amp. For this reason, we recommend that you don't use any kind of power-soaks or power-attenuators, either as a substitute for, or in addition to, the DI box and true speaker. Those devices work mostly with simple resistors, which might inhibit the desired impedance interactions, thereby resulting in an inauthentic PROFILE.

    Besides the DI box, it helps if you own either a PROFILER with built-in power amp, or a separate solid-state power amp, for capturing a Direct Amp PROFILE. Otherwise, it is not possible to immediately play and check the PROFILE that has been captured.

     How to setup Direct Amp PROFILING

    PROFILING an Amp 301

    • Connect your guitar to the INPUT of your PROFILER and the DIRECT OUTPUT or SEND 1 to your reference amp (this part is identical to regular studio PROFILING).
    • Use a speaker cable to connect the speaker output of your reference amp to the speaker input of the DI box.
    • Use another speaker cable to connect the speaker bypass output of the DI box to your guitar cabinet.
    • Finally, connect the line output of the DI box to the RETURN or RETURN 1 of the PROFILER.
    • Switch off the optional speaker simulation of the DI box, if it has one.

    It is not mandatory to connect the MAIN OUTPUT to a monitor speaker system, or to use headphones, as you would end up listening to the Direct Amp PROFILE without a guitar cabinet. This sound is very harsh and unnatural. A valid A/B comparison is only possible by connecting your guitar cabinet to the PROFILER power amp, once the PROFILE is captured.

    • Enter the PROFILER Mode.
    • Play your guitar and check if the OUTPUT LED shows a signal.
    • Adjust the “Return level” parameter so that the LED shows green at input signals. An exact adjustment is not

      necessary, the correct volume will be found automatically by the PROFILING algorithm.

    • Now you can start the PROFILING procedure, as explained earlier in this chapter. Normally, the PROFILER will

      automatically detect a Direct Amp PROFILE, switch off the cabinet module and capture the entire PROFILE in the amplifier module. In exceptional cases, it can happen that the Direct Amp PROFILE isn’t recognized automatically. In

      that case manually select “No Cabinet” and repeat the process.

    The recommended refining procedure, which comes after the automated part of the process, is a bit of a shot-in-the- dark, as you will continue to hear your reference amp through the physical guitar cabinet only. Still, it's a good idea to go through with it by playing chords on your guitar, as explained in the chapter “Refining the PROFILE”.

    When the PROFILING is done, it's time to listen to the result!

    How to Create Merged PROFILEs

    If you are planning to take both a Direct Amp PROFILE and a Studio PROFILE of the same tube amplifier, for merging them later, we recommend the following sequence:

    ✓If you like, do the setup and cabling for both PROFILEs. Position the microphones by the guitar cabinet as required. However, you will not be able to take both PROFILEs in one go, since the PROFILER only supports one return signal for PROFILING.

    Make all required adjustments to the amp while listening to it right in front of the guitar cabinet. Don't worry about the mic'ed sound at this stage, as the direct sound cannot be adjusted by anything other than the amplifier controls.

    • Capture the Direct Amp PROFILE first, as described above, and save it.

    PROFILING an Amp 302

    • Turn down “Monitor Volume” for the power amp of the PROFILER.

    • Put your reference tube amp into standby mode, as it should not run without a speaker connected.
    • Unplug the speaker cable (the one going to the speaker) and plug it into the SPEAKER OUTPUT of the PROFILER

      PowerHead or PowerRack.

    • Play, and turn up “Monitor Volume” carefully.
    • Done! When played through your guitar speaker, the PROFILER and your tube amp will sound identical.
    • Save your Direct Amp PROFILE.

    ✓Do not touch the controls of the amp after capturing the Direct Amp PROFILE, as both PROFILEs, and thus the eventual Merged PROFILE, must be based on the same original amp sound.

    Now, you can merge the cabinet portion of the Studio PROFILE into the Direct Amp PROFILE. Here's the procedure in detail for all PROFILER variants other than Stage:

    PROFILING an Amp 303

    • Connect the microphone (instead of the DI box) to the return of the PROFILER. If you want to disengage the DI box, and connect the guitar cabinet directly, don’t forget to put your reference amp on standby first.
    • Prepare for the capture of the Studio PROFILE by adjusting the microphone positions. To optimize your mic'ed sound, use either the 4-band equalizer in PROFILER Mode, or the equalizers on your mixing desk.

    • Capture the Studio PROFILE.

    • Select the Studio PROFILE in Browser Mode.
    • Hold the CABINET button for at least one second until it’s in focus.
    • Press COPY on the front panel.
    • Press EXIT and select the respective Direct Amp PROFILE.
    • Hold the CABINET button for at least one second to bring it into focus.
    • Press PASTE.
    • "Merge Cabinet" will appear under a soft button. Push it!
    • You can undo and redo the merging by pressing “Merge Cabinet” again and comparing results.
    • Press EXIT and store your new PROFILE.
    • Once stored, it is no longer possible to undo the merging!

    The procedure slightly differs for the PROFILER Stage:

    • Select the Studio PROFILE in Browser Mode and push the CABINET button to open the cabinet module.
    • Hold the CABINET button again for at least two seconds until the copy/paste screen appears.
    • Press soft button “Copy” on that screen.
    • Press and select the respective Direct Amp PROFILE.
    • Open the cabinet module.
    • Hold the CABINET button for at least two seconds until the copy/paste screen appears.

    PROFILING an Amp 304

    • Press soft button “Paste”.
    • "Merge Cabinet" will appear under a soft button. Push it!
    • You can undo and redo the merging by pressing “Merge Cabinet” again and comparing results.
    • Press and store your new PROFILE.
    • Once stored, it is no longer possible to undo the merging!
    Quote from Kemper Support #1

    direct amp profiles are not about taking silent profiles but ones that do not involve a microphone in the process.

    If you want to avoid disturbing the neighbours you could consider using a silent cab for the job

    Very true. I experienced with different loads when I started profiling amps. Some like torpedos, which uses their " reactive load " technology, acts more like a speaker than let's say, a hot plate line out (which gave me terrible results). All in all, using a real speaker is always the best to get the most accurate result. I assume that you could simply build a pretty dead sounding box, put the speaker in it, regardless of how good it would sound with a mic, only to get the amp/speaker interaction.

    while I totally agree with everything support has said, I also agree with Vinny. I have made profiles with a Two Notes Torpedo Reload and got decent results. They definitely sounded different to the real DI profile with a speaker but they weren’t necessarily bad just different. I personally preferred the real DI with speaker as the load but some others preferred the loadbox version.


    just to put another idea out there, nrm461 if Your reference tone which you are happy with involves the Cab M supplying an IR, why not try making a studio profile from the output of the Cab M. In this case the KPA with think it is receiving a signal with a speaker and mic and create ots own estimation of where the amp ends and speaker starts. It won’t help with the impedance issues of using a loadboax i stead of a speaker but it might give you a fully self contained rig that is just plug’n’play without any external devices.

    Another Torpedo Reload user here. When my Victory VX100 came in a few weeks ago the first thing I tried was making some direct profiles and A/B'ing them vs. the amp's preamp out. Both were successful, and as far as the power amp went I got exactly the sound I was expecting both in 30W & 100W mode. No surprises or disappointment here.