Neural Quad Cortex

    Quote from dean701

    This surprises me because there are so many different public profiles available and it takes me a while to find the ones I like. When I say this I am even speaking of the same model of amplifier/speaker. I would think that if someone is refining with a guitar with hot pickups and another is not then that would have a bearing on the profile. Pickup height included. Of course, I have no idea and it looks like I was mistaken all along. Thanks Christoph.

    There is (way) more to a profile, than just the amp: the speaker, or combination of speakers, the microphone or combination of microphones, the placing of the microphones, pre-amp, mixing technique, other outboard gear (eq and what not), refining length and what is played. This is what separates the profiles from each other, not the guitar used in the refining process.

    Some people used the word "congestion" to described this effect. There were many post about it 4 years ago.

    Quote from ReinoutV

    There is (way) more to a profile, than just the amp: the speaker, or combination of speakers, the microphone or combination of microphones, the placing of the microphones, pre-amp, mixing technique, other outboard gear (eq and what not), refining length and what is played. This is what separates the profiles from each other, not the guitar used in the refining process.

    I understand that but left out the details. I should have included more of a description including amp settings, mics, positions....

    Quote from OneEng1

    If it is all about capturing their existing amp then consider this. Why capture the amp if you already have THAT tone?

    Convenience. With studio profiles, "THAT" tone is often dependent on mic position, and that's not necessarily easy (or possible) to reproduce(much less perfectly), and even if you could reproduce it with a bit of trial and error, the ability to recall it instantly saves a hell of a lot of time and is a hell of a lot more convenient.

    There is something that I don't really understand...
    How can some people argue and some almost fight about sound differences between Kemper and QC if they not even compared them by themselves A/B on their own desk with monitors speakers and also with a guitar cabinet?

    I compared Kemper with Helix with BOSS GT-1000 with Ampero by myself this way. The one thing I learned doing these comparisons is that the videos in Internet can't show you the feel of the device is in real.

    In my opinion, this discussion would become really interesting if some of us could do that test and then talk facts. Not just argue about youtube videos.

    Quote from yeky83

    I posted these in the thread earlier, here again:

    I find it easy to identify in these two A/B comparison videos:

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    In particular, the fast tremolo-picked single note in the beginning of the clips reveals it quite well to my ears.

    I'm not so sure. It is easy to hear the difference, but on headphones C sound more scooped than and B with the EVH example. This is maybe because Fractal depends on IRs and they impart a lot of the sound. The 5153 always has a strong mid range in the 500hz area though.

    On the DR the Kemper profile is poor and lacks low end compared to the other two.

    I just don't hear the cocked wah thing that was on Rabea's video here.

    Karl

    Kemper Rack OS 10.2.2 - Mac Sonoma 14.5

    Quote from Calaban


    He handled you the way he should have.


    You were making thinly veiled accusations about his integrity backed up by zero evidence.


    He doesn’t have to “prove you wrong.” That’s not how it works. You made a claim, however thinly veiled. You are the one who must prove the claim. It’s basic Burden of Proof 101.

    In what world is not understanding something and saying "something doesn't fit here TO ME", the same thing as making a rude claim? But, no you're right,

    If someone asks a question because something simply doesn't fit together to them, the appropriate response is to basically insult their intelligence and then say "I don't owe you s***, or an explanation because you're not worth the time" lolol:D:D

    You can't be serious lol. That kind of response is really uncalled for. I was basically shrugged off and indirectly insulted. Doug basically said answering my question to any extent whatsoever, wasn't worth his time and insinuated that I'm stupid because I think I'm smarter than I am.

    Rude and defensive comments are uncalled for unless someone is straight up coming at you sideways or throwing insults right at you. Neither of which I was doing.

    That's the issue. People assuming I'm trying to discredit the QC and automatically getting defensive. I imagine it's because you're either interested in one or ordered one already lol. So you feel the need to attack whoever is a threat to its credibility. But my opinion and questions about the processing power won't affect your user experience with the QC

    Even if my question did have any "thinly veiled accusations" as you say, it still doesn't call for a totally defensive and borderline rude response. That shows real lack of class amd professionalism coming from the head of a company lol.

    Some people just trust every company has their best interest in mind, and think that no company would ever exaggerate marketing to make sales, and that's fine if that's your thing. Do your thing But don't be pissed when others do research and form their own opinions and ask questions and try to make informed decisions. Thats my right just as much as you thinking Doug was right to call me stupid and then ignore my question is your right lol :P

    Quote from dean701

    This surprises me because there are so many different public profiles available and it takes me a while to find the ones I like. When I say this I am even speaking of the same model of amplifier/speaker. I would think that if someone is refining with a guitar with hot pickups and another is not then that would have a bearing on the profile. Pickup height included. Of course, I have no idea and it looks like I was mistaken all along. Thanks Christoph.

    Whats surprising about it, you can mic an amp in a thousand different ways and you will like like the sound only from the few of the mic placements/combinations/blends. And most of the tone comes from cabinet/how you mic it. QC capturing the same way so it will have the same problem.

    Edit: My suggestion is to find ir you really like for certain tones (or get a cab), save it and use direct profiles with that ir. The only thing left will be to find amp sound you like and you are good.

    Edited 3 times, last by Clanker (February 7, 2021 at 1:58 PM).

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    Better have it and not need it, than need it and not have it! - Michael Angelo Batio

    Thanks for posting the links!

    This truly helps to solve and explain this urban myth.

    The myth is that there are numerous "cocked wah" Profiles around, and even in factory content, and that it's a wrong sound aspect caused by weaknesses in the Profiling technique.

    The truth is that there are all these "cocked wah" Profiles around, and they have been made like that in purpose, as they play an important role in the guitar amp culture.

    And as always, some like it, some don't.

    One of your link show videos of cocked wah sounds used on famous recordings.

    Another link shows this post from Deny back in 2013 :

    "My real tube amp and preamps do this "quacky wah wah" sound, which i a few words is what my tone chase is all about. You will find that Steve Vai and Joe Satriani are fans of the aforementioned quacky tone (no, they don't use a wah all the time), which is produced by multiple gain stages and tone shaping circuits. It also takes careful adjustment of the amp and pedals so the rig will respond like this to picking dynamics.

    The Kemper is the ONLY device that I know of capable of reproducing this behavior, which IMHO places it at the top of the modeling/profiling food chain.

    So this isn't a defect, it's a feature - and a quite awesome one at that."

    I think that says it all.

    you can actually mod a guitar pickup configuration specifically to give cocked wah option.

    One thing I've noticed from various studio forums is that "collectors of gear" do not always spend the time to actually learn how to use a specific piece, but will immediately plan to buy the next thing.

    But then we all like shiny new gear lol ...

    I have just had an email from my supplier regarding my order of the Cortex saying they are now delaying it till March, essentially putting it back a month.

    The reason for this decision was to allow some final tweaks and stress testing to their cloud service. They have thousands of units already built and ready to ship as soon as they are satisfied with the changes. They have also assured us that the release will be simultaneous through all dealers.

    Perhaps this is true or maybe they have been following this thread! ;)

    Either way, its ok I can wait, Ironically I have been semi tempted to cancel it.

    'You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead' - Stan Laurel

    Quote from pacocito

    Some people used the word "congestion" to described this effect. There were many post about it 4 years ago.

    If that is a similar or even the same topic, read the links from 0c0ae758d7281e05704547e2c7296ce2a385579a for explainations and solutions.

    There is also a lot of threads around, about fizzy profiles, thin profiles, muddy profiles, factory profiles being subpar (even though they come from top 10 vendors), and the Profiler not sounding like a guitar amp at all.

    It is all a matter of taste, genre, needs, guitars and speakers or monitor situations.

    If a profile fails in an A/B comparison, that is where my job starts.

    None of my profiles I have made have had a cocked wah sound. I spend time on my refining and for me and some of the amps I have, it’s a really necessary step. I don’t think it’s enough pressing refine once and hitting a couple of chords. You get out of the refine process the amount of effort you put in.

    Talking of that cocked wah sound, I can easily get an approximation of something like that effect in two seconds with most Les Paul’s or Strat’s if needed although nothing beats a wah doing it.

    Quote from ckemper

    If a profile fails in an A/B comparison, that is where my job starts.

    Exactly Christoph; well said mate.

    So much misinformation out there due to the misunderstanding that bad sources inevitably result in bad Profiles, which of course is no fault of the KPA, only the creator / vendor.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Exactly Christoph; well said mate.

    So much misinformation out there due to the misunderstanding that bad sources inevitably result in bad Profiles, which of course is no fault of the KPA, only the creator / vendor.

    Regardless, most of the debate has been re-sparked by the recent comparison QC videos and how the QC "seems" to get good results without the extra tweaking. The videos are already out there and that cannot be changed.

    Quote from Monkey_Man

    Exactly Christoph; well said mate.

    So much misinformation out there due to the misunderstanding that bad sources inevitably result in bad Profiles, which of course is no fault of the KPA, only the creator / vendor.

    Thank you!

    But I would like my statement to be seen even beyond.

    It is not about bad Profiles. It is about the understanding that different musical genres are served by different profiles.

    I feel that there is not enough sensivity at guitarists in considering that certain Profiles could serve the need for players in a different genre than yours. This sensitivity is rarely needed when you play tube amps that are more or less targeted to a certain genre.

    In digital amps you will face amp sounds that are tailored for many individual genres. And there is an overlap of genres preventing amp sounds from being pre-categorized appropriately. Our "Sort-By-Gain" feature might be a good approximation, but cannot go much deeper.

    If a user asks for tips and hints to find or tweak a good sound, other users giving comments very rarely ask what music genre the question is about. They think what serves them, is good for everybody. I don't blame anyone for doing that. There is not many places on earth where you might need knowledge about amp sound requirements of different musical genres than on forums of digital guitar amps.

    Ahhh competition...

    Nothing could be better for us guitar players than this! ;)

    If you use FRFR the benefit of a merged profile is that the cabinet is totally separated in the profile.

    For my edification only... ;) Kemper/Axe-FX III/ Quad Cortex user

    I love the Kemper, obviously. I understand what people refer to as a cocked wah phenomenon. It’s a nasally mid-rangey thing. It doesn’t reveal itself consistently in the profiles where I’ve noticed it—and I’m talking about respected, commercial profiles of clean and edge of breakup amps that I have tweaked extensively. Hence I believe it's the result of certain sets of (user designated) variables across (arguably too many) stomps and eq’s, as CK suggests. Or it may be the result of failing to refine some of the amp parameters if in fact gain stage “abnormalities” are inherent in a particular (especially modern, hi-gain) rig being profiled.

    Sorry I’m just not one to stop and analyze my rigs to clarify, since it’s not a problem. It has never appeared on a recording. I’ve noticed it now and again since forever, but when it occurs, for whatever reason I don’t mind, and since it happens intermittently, I have to believe it has more to do with extended parameters that weren’t available to us in the analog realm (again, that’s on the user not the tool). Ymmv, as this is coming from a guy who actually used both a cocked wah and a pedal that simulates one for years.

    One parallel may be in PhotoShop and digital images, where levels of color saturation and hue were suddenly on tap that had never been achievable with film. Theoretically that’s a good thing, but film had already “automated” color science. The new extended parameters were a fantastic development, but they also resulted in a generation or two or three of images with wonky color. User error.

    One of the reasons that guitarists who are experienced with gigging Fender Deluxe Reverbs and Marshall 50watt heads respond to MBritt and Bert M profiles is because those guys have been chasing tones meant to fit in mixes for decades. They’re not creating cartoon tones for bedroom fantasists. They’re using their experienced ears to get at good old normal guitar sounds. They’re not exploiting the extreme settings of the device simply because they’re there. That may bore some people, but it’s incredibly useful for a lot of us.

    Anyway, I quote Ingolf because yes, the tenor of this whole QC device rollout has a bit of that historically [Fractal] bloodthirsty “us versus them take no prisoners by any means necessary” vibe that for whatever reason—ethics, decency?— Line 6 and Kemper were always able to sidestep no matter how much the fanboys (and competing ceos) goaded them in to a fight.

    No doubt CK can play hardball. What successful entrepreneur can’t? But no, there’s no documented history of snark and deceit and acrimony coming from his camp.

    And for people who say let’s talk about the QC not reviews and influencers, at this point that’s all there is. And yeah, however appealing the potential is for the new device, its introduction most definitely leaves a bad taste.

    Quote from Ingolf

    ........And this also cast a bad light onto NDSP.

    If I were CEO there I'd have forbidden any comparative advertisement pre-sale when done so badly, because it is so uncool and un-classy. I'd have insisted to let the unit speak for itself. Instead we see all half-assed downplaying of the contender.

    How embarrassing! In NDSP's shoes I'd already feel a certain degree of external shame right now.