NAMM 2019

Quote from Monkey_Man

Spot-on, mate; my thoughts exactly.

Just on the F12-X200 thing, I sincerely hope the Kemper driver is a whole-lot-more accurate than the spec sheet for the speaker revealed. I posted this earlier in the thread, but didn't receive much feedback other than the reasoning that it had a response curve that would benefit / compliment guitar-type sounds by cutting lows and accentuating pick articulation and whatnot. IMHO, this defeats the purpose of FRFR drivers and enclosures designed for modellers.

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Here's what I wrote:

I'm so-disappointed to have to say it, but the spec's, in the form they're provided, are a joke!

In the genreal-specification section, instead of a proper frequency-response description (eg. 20Hz-> 20kHz, +/- 1.5dB), we're given a "Frequency-range" one. This tells us practically-nothing. Even your crappiest home-stereo speaker's gonna produce 60Hz ->20kHz, the range quoted. Sure, it may be down x amount at 20kHz or60Hz, but there's still a measurable response, which again, is all this specification format tells us.

Then there's the graph. This is passed off as a frequency-response chart, which it technically is, but instead of providing us with a reference to the input level, which is usually represented by a "zero" line in the centre, they've shown only a level "curve" that reveals a 30dB variation across the spectrum. 30dB! Are you kidding?

No wonder they opted to avoid the standard +/- dB above-and-below-the-zero-line format. It would have meant that the response shown would have had to deviate 15dB in both directions (+ and -) at a minimum, but more-likely be lop-sided, possibly reaching into the 20s in one of them. That would've looked pathetic and raised alarm bells for any audio person who looked at it.

Anyone who knows anything about FR charts knows that this would look ridiculous and not-even-good for a set of satellite computer speakers. In fact, it's the most-terrible response deviation I've ever seen for any piece of equipment claiming to be flat-response. Remember, it's the FR (full-range) FR (flat-response) market that they're going to be competing in with these things. A 30dB deviation is so far from a flat response I'm at a loss for an appropriate descriptive term.

OK, so the spec's are suspicious to say the least, but what about the advertising blurb? Surely that would provide some insight; maybe I'm reading the spec section incorrectly? Put your seatbelt on and hang onto your hat:

1) "... truly full range driver..." - It's not full-range, let alone truly-full-range, but it's appropriate for guitar-cab simulation.

2) "... that delivers a frequency response from 60Hz all the way up to 20kHz..." - Wow! Really? See expose above.

3) "... enables the F12-X200 to reproduce the full spectrum of audible frequencies..." - Really? So nobody can hear below 60Hz? Further to that, the spectrum means nothing if the levels (response) ain't there. See expose above.

4) "... for the most accurate output possible..." - P-lease. 30dB of response variation can't be described in any universe as being "accurate", let alone as-accurate-as-possible.

5) "... response is remarkably neutral.." - Uugghh... and I fly remarkably like Superman.

6) "... with Celestion technology built in to ensure there are no unwanted colourations... " - Words fail me.

If you tweak your Rigs to sound good through this, God help you if you sent that signal to FOH. Sure, the engineer will shape it as-necessary, but it's not going to sound anything like the KPA's post-cab-sim output. You'll be having your pants flapped in blissful ignorance of what's really going on out there off-stage.

If that's a problem, imagine recording those Rigs. You would never want to make tweaks based on what you hear from this thing and then expect to hear anything like what you think you have post-recording unless you mic'd the FRFR cab, which would defeat the purpose of the KPA for recording anyway.

Lastly, there's one aspect of the blurb I can't argue with, and feel, based on the spec's I've seen, that it ought rightly to be the main selling point of the cab, and that's the claimed authentic physical feedback one would expect from a guitar cabinet. I see no reason to doubt this claim. The cynic in me, unfortunately, sees a salesperson standing next to a rig saying, "Check out our latest FRFR cab for modellers; It's FR... without the second FR, but hey, it feels like a friggin' cab, mate.".

So, based on the advertising blurb, I'd definitely hold onto my money and let it prove itself in-the-wild long before parting with my hard-earned if I were you, guys.

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As I said, based on this, I sure hope the jointly-designed Kemper offering doesn't look anything like this on paper...

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It'll be very interesting to see/hear the result.

Quote from Monkey_Man

Spot-on, mate; my thoughts exactly.

Just on the F12-X200 thing, I sincerely hope the Kemper driver is a whole-lot-more accurate than the spec sheet for the speaker revealed. I posted this earlier in the thread, but didn't receive much feedback other than the reasoning that it had a response curve that would benefit / compliment guitar-type sounds by cutting lows and accentuating pick articulation and whatnot. IMHO, this defeats the purpose of FRFR drivers and enclosures designed for modellers.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's what I wrote:

I'm so-disappointed to have to say it, but the spec's, in the form they're provided, are a joke!

In the genreal-specification section, instead of a proper frequency-response description (eg. 20Hz-> 20kHz, +/- 1.5dB), we're given a "Frequency-range" one. This tells us practically-nothing. Even your crappiest home-stereo speaker's gonna produce 60Hz ->20kHz, the range quoted. Sure, it may be down x amount at 20kHz or60Hz, but there's still a measurable response, which again, is all this specification format tells us.

Then there's the graph. This is passed off as a frequency-response chart, which it technically is, but instead of providing us with a reference to the input level, which is usually represented by a "zero" line in the centre, they've shown only a level "curve" that reveals a 30dB variation across the spectrum. 30dB! Are you kidding?

No wonder they opted to avoid the standard +/- dB above-and-below-the-zero-line format. It would have meant that the response shown would have had to deviate 15dB in both directions (+ and -) at a minimum, but more-likely be lop-sided, possibly reaching into the 20s in one of them. That would've looked pathetic and raised alarm bells for any audio person who looked at it.

Anyone who knows anything about FR charts knows that this would look ridiculous and not-even-good for a set of satellite computer speakers. In fact, it's the most-terrible response deviation I've ever seen for any piece of equipment claiming to be flat-response. Remember, it's the FR (full-range) FR (flat-response) market that they're going to be competing in with these things. A 30dB deviation is so far from a flat response I'm at a loss for an appropriate descriptive term.

OK, so the spec's are suspicious to say the least, but what about the advertising blurb? Surely that would provide some insight; maybe I'm reading the spec section incorrectly? Put your seatbelt on and hang onto your hat:

1) "... truly full range driver..." - It's not full-range, let alone truly-full-range, but it's appropriate for guitar-cab simulation.

2) "... that delivers a frequency response from 60Hz all the way up to 20kHz..." - Wow! Really? See expose above.

3) "... enables the F12-X200 to reproduce the full spectrum of audible frequencies..." - Really? So nobody can hear below 60Hz? Further to that, the spectrum means nothing if the levels (response) ain't there. See expose above.

4) "... for the most accurate output possible..." - P-lease. 30dB of response variation can't be described in any universe as being "accurate", let alone as-accurate-as-possible.

5) "... response is remarkably neutral.." - Uugghh... and I fly remarkably like Superman.

6) "... with Celestion technology built in to ensure there are no unwanted colourations... " - Words fail me.

If you tweak your Rigs to sound good through this, God help you if you sent that signal to FOH. Sure, the engineer will shape it as-necessary, but it's not going to sound anything like the KPA's post-cab-sim output. You'll be having your pants flapped in blissful ignorance of what's really going on out there off-stage.

If that's a problem, imagine recording those Rigs. You would never want to make tweaks based on what you hear from this thing and then expect to hear anything like what you think you have post-recording unless you mic'd the FRFR cab, which would defeat the purpose of the KPA for recording anyway.

Lastly, there's one aspect of the blurb I can't argue with, and feel, based on the spec's I've seen, that it ought rightly to be the main selling point of the cab, and that's the claimed authentic physical feedback one would expect from a guitar cabinet. I see no reason to doubt this claim. The cynic in me, unfortunately, sees a salesperson standing next to a rig saying, "Check out our latest FRFR cab for modellers; It's FR... without the second FR, but hey, it feels like a friggin' cab, mate.".

So, based on the advertising blurb, I'd definitely hold onto my money and let it prove itself in-the-wild long before parting with my hard-earned if I were you, guys.

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As I said, based on this, I sure hope the jointly-designed Kemper offering doesn't look anything like this on paper...

Display More

I'm guessing it's not going to matter too much how accurate the speaker will be as a true frfr speaker, it's only intended to work with the 16 speaker sims on the Kemper which were created specifically for this speaker. I believe the true purpose of the Kemper cab will be to replace a guitar cab with a cab that can simulate a specific range of speakers, no need for true frfr.

As I also mentioned in the F12-X200 thread, I'd be pretty confident this is actually the very same speaker, too much of a coincidence that the speaker was announced about a year ago, but is still unavailable, like they've been waiting for some reason. I may be eating humble pie, but I doubt it

Quote from stratdude

I believe the true purpose of the Kemper cab will be to replace a guitar cab with a cab that can simulate a specific range of speakers, no need for true frfr.

If that's true, it's kinda like a lock-in by Kemper then. IOW, you'd have to use the new speaker sims as they'd contain compensation for the frequency response amongst other things.

If, OTOH, you want to use any of the tens of thousands of Rigs out there as-per-usual, you'd require that the new cabinets be as-flat-as-possible response-wise... IMHO.

It could be that with modern manufacturing Celestion are able to tweak their new FR design (slightly more "beamy" cone material?) for specific customers at modest volumes, I don't know...

I imagine Kemper are going to sell a truckload and they'll make sure it sounds great. ✔✔✔✔?▶️⏩⏭???????

Best comment i found on the Andertons kemper video..

i had to post this man..

While other companies continue to release new hardware and milk money out of people kemper continues to update what they have. Kudos to these guys.

Ash

Quote from Guitartone

There were 1,256,721 requests for Spring Reverb, not other Reverbs, just Spring...now we're asking when are you giving us the other Reverbs besides the dozen or so including Spring that you've just given us for free, and if you don't give us an answer then you're "stonewalling".

Actually, yes, they usually do stonewall on giving estimates for when things will be done. It's usually "we're working on it", "it'll be done when it's done", etc.

It's a smart move for sure, otherwise everyone starts complaining, as we have seen time and again when new features are revealed to be in the pipeline.

I specifically mentioned whether we can get a date, and...

Quote from drog

Outstanding interview! Reverbs to be released soon. Q3 for the cabinets release, plus we can purchase just the speakers. They are working on the editor! New screen layout for effects, so easier to find what we are after!

So much goodness !

... Looks like we did get our estimates. I am grateful. I've been looking for a cab to go with my Kemper and this looks like it.

Quote from lk_bill

Will the various Kone imprints work only with this specific Celestion speaker, or with any other speaker?

I think they'll work, but your mileage my vary. The speakers are probably tuned as far as working with the different imprints, whereas others may be more capable of a certain kind of sound.

Note, that may not necessarily be FRFR. As Mr CK said, DSP power is involved. I'd love to get my hands on one.

Why has no one asked for pricing yet?

What a NAMM performance compared to last year.

This performance is good enough for 2 years.

Truly good news.

1.) The long-awaited editor combined with an optimized preset management via computer and on the device itself.

2.) The new Reverbs, which will be released soon.

3.) A new loudspeaker including a speaker with an optional characteristic to choose at the KPA.

Since I don't intend to change my setup at the moment, I'm curious what effects this cone option will have on the sound via the FOH and the near field monitor I use on stage.

Kemper with Cones > Kemper with FRFR?

We have to understand the purpose of the new cab.And this is "just more fun".It will not go out on FOH (unless you mic it)It will not replace FRFR with 10" & 15"..it is all about "ultimate amp in the room and moving air on your trousers" than anything else.

Most likely I will use both..one of the new cabs "for fun" and "moving air" and one FRFR for any profile which is not so much "about rocknroll"..let's not forget that 12" is a very limited speaker for everything else besides "loud n nasty",has always been..

Quote from Sharry

Since I don't intend to change my setup at the moment, I'm curious what effects this cone option will have on the sound via the FOH and the near field monitor I use on stage.

Okay..I guess I am to old for all the new tech stuff now..but from what I can grasp this new cab has absolutely nothing to do with the FOH unless you put a mic on it.And I guess I am right.

"The Kemper Kone and Kemper Kabinet work exclusively with a Profiler."

Read that here.

https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2019-kemp…-cab-announced/

If that's so, it may not be a copy of the Celestion FRFR speaker.

Also:

"It is controlled and driven by the Kemper Profiler’s DSP to an ultra-linear/full range frequency response, using their own dedicated DSP algorithm. They have made it so that it still has that distinct guitar speaker character though."

So it may not even be an FRFR speaker.

Quote from Nikos

Okay..I guess I am to old for all the new tech stuff now..but from what I can grasp this new cab has absolutely nothing to do with the FOH unless you put a mic on it.And I guess I am right.

I can't check this out now, but I'm curious right now.

For me it only makes sense if it improves the sound for the audience and it is delivered via the FOH.

I myself am not so dependent on the sound of the monitor.

So if it's only for those who play a Git-Cab, I'm happy for them.

For me it won't bring any advantages but surely no disadvantages.

Supplement:

How does the software behave if you don't have a Kemper cab or Amplifier?

PS: I'm older than you

Quote from nightlight

"The Kemper Kone and Kemper Kabinet work exclusively with a Profiler."

Read that here.

https://www.gearnews.com/namm-2019-kemp…-cab-announced/

If that's so, it may not be a copy of the Celestion FRFR speaker.

Also:

"It is controlled and driven by the Kemper Profiler’s DSP to an ultra-linear/full range frequency response, using their own dedicated DSP algorithm. They have made it so that it still has that distinct guitar speaker character though."

So it may not even be an FRFR speaker.

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The fact it can do frfr for music playback confirms that it is capable of frfr, although I'm sure not to the level of studio monitors. The DSP is all in the Kemper, the description so far matches everything that Celestion state for the F12-X200.

I'm liking what I'm hearing, I'm super keen on getting my hands on 1 or 2 of these speakers to throw in a cab, if reality can come close to the marketing claims, I'll be one happy camper.

All speculation on my part, we really need a true Kemper nerd at Namm to ask the right questions

Quote from Monkey_Man

If that's true, it's kinda like a lock-in by Kemper then. IOW, you'd have to use the new speaker sims as they'd contain compensation for the frequency response amongst other things.

If, OTOH, you want to use any of the tens of thousands of Rigs out there as-per-usual, you'd require that the new cabinets be as-flat-as-possible response-wise... IMHO.

In the video, Christoph says that there is DSP at work to flatten the frequency response of the Kemper Kab when using it with normal profiles as we always have (ie Studio or Merged with Cabs engaged). However, when engaging the Monitor Cab Off option and using Kemper Cone, the DSP then switches to using the selected “speaker imprint”. I got the feeling that he hinted at these being stored per profile, which would be outstanding.

@Sharry..yeah but you are way smarter than me..

I guess I am right though..pure cab is nice but "not enough" for the amp in the roomers..look around how many guys still using their Marshall cabs with modellers.Limiting themselves to the highest degree.

The new cab is for them.I don't see any way (please correct me if I am wrong) to get all the "characteristics" of the new cab with a dozen (yet..more to come) "unique dispersion behaviours" of every single "character" to the FOH besides a mic.I may be wrong.I hope so.But I just don't see it.

I think the key is for Kemper to have a standard speaker cab so that they can compensate digitally from a known point.

Even if it isn't FRFR the Kemper "understands" it's lack of flatness and compensates.

As the sound of a speaker cabinet is a combination of the speaker and the design of the enclosure, the sound of this will surely change if people are buying the speakers and putting them in their own cabs.

For the actual speaker flavours, no problem...... it should be what a greenback or jenson sounds like in ‘your cab’ which is cool. But the FRFR stuff? I guess that’ll be very good in the Kemper cab as they can control both sides of the influence (speaker and cab) but how close to flat you will get in other cabinets will depend on the cab.

I am excited by it as a concept but for me I don’t know if I’ll get away with it. My main amp when gigging before Kemper was a 7w valve amp that had no master volume. I played in an 8 piece band and was constantly being asked to turn it down as the stage volume was crazy. Going to the Kemper on stage was an absolute blessing as I went to PA and had a small flat monitor pointing at me - so much better and easier. I’m not gigging currently but in most places I can think to play, Kemper to FOH plus small monitor would be the practical solution so I don’t get death stares from band mates

At home, I have a wife and two kids plus a job that keeps me very busy but pays for my music hobby. Consequently, my home playing is either at low volume through studio monitors or often through headphones. I remember playing my 7w amp at home and the windows rattling. It was great fun for sure but the actual ‘amp in the room’ got me nothing but trouble. The thrill of the trousers flapping is great but the enjoyable practicality of being able to get awesome tone silently outweighs the thrill.

But the thought of my favourite profiles at silly volume through a guitar cabinet still appeals to the naughty side of me. If there are lots of you grinning from ear to ear with this thing I may have to consider it for when everyone is out

Really excited with the editor. I love the way that morphing seems to be working in the Anderson’s video. What I personally wanted was not so much ‘tweak everything’ ability - it was more about making the whole Kemper experience easier in the modern age. So naming / storing / moving around / fx chains that you can share with others and download their cool ideas in return without infringing on profile copyright. Also recognition that the very cool delays have sooooo many screens of parameters so my feeling is lots of us rarely find what is possible because we cannot be bothered. Seems like they’ve made something that is a nice organisation tool for those who just want to manage presets with a couple of tweaks whilst also allowing the tweak addicts to go to town. If it’s the summer, so be it but hoping they manage to release it into the wild sooner - rig manager was such a blessing when it was released and my bet is that lots of us will wonder how we did without this new software once we’ve used it for a bit

One of the new cab and a dxr10..I see this kind of combination as the new "standard".Wonderfull..

And if this go with two separate KPAs I see a lot of fun coming back to us guitar players again after all the great losses we had suffer during the last two decades..

Quote from sambrox

In the video, Christoph says that there is DSP at work to flatten the frequency response of the Kemper Kab when using it with normal profiles as we always have (ie Studio or Merged with Cabs engaged). However, when engaging the Monitor Cab Off option and using Kemper Cone, the DSP then switches to using the selected “speaker imprint”. I got the feeling that he hinted at these being stored per profile, which would be outstanding.

Of course, thank you, Sam!

As soon as you started saying this I remembered CK's comments. Seems like they've got it covered for sure.

The potential of the new cab, for me, is in solving a problem that I've struggled with when playing live...

Even though my Kemper goes to FOH, I like to have a guitar cab on stage, for harmonic feedback.

But I then switch to acoustic guitar for some songs in the set and now I want my on-stage cab to be FRFR!

Problem solved!