Really good metal profiles?

    Hi guys!

    After almost one year without the Kemper, initially selling it because tube amps were "cooler", had more of a rock n' roll vibe etc, I had nothing but problems with the amp that replaced the Kemper... Also moving from Norway to the UK wasn't really practical to bring my huge Marshall JCM800 (not the amp I had issues with btw), and a Powerhead turned up on the used market with almost uncanny good timing. I have been seriously changing preferences since the last time I owned a Kemper, back then I couldn't even listen to the profiles through a PA speaker, headset or whatever; it had to be through a real cab. Nowadays I actually hate the sound of a real cab, the only way I can enjoy it is to crank it up and use earplugs (good ones though) to roll of the worst highs...

    That's not really what this thread is supposed to be about though, sorry about that! I have so many great profiles now of classic rock tones, it's frankly insane how good some of them sound and replicates that low gain power tube distortion! My problem is that I cannot find any metal tones I like, the closest I've come is the 1984 Brown Sound profile from Top Jimi which is my metal profile of choice at the moment, but it's not quite there. Other profiles of more "pure" metal amps I don't really like, I got his Bogner Überschall TwinJet pack and while I absolutely love the first channel, it doesn't have enough gain for metal and the second channel is way too fat and dark, loose in the bass etc. That's the way most of them are, really dark sounding and loose bass response.

    I stumbled upon this clip tonight, which was not only cool to hear because of what it is but the guitar tone is also way, way better than on the actual album! I would almost go as far as describing it as the perfect metal tone, especially from what I hear from this point (the link was supposed to take you to 0:22):

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    Anyone know about a set of profiles that can recreate that particular tone?

    Good luck getting any unbiased answers around here initially: it seems the new trend is for people to come in and immediately spam their own personal profiles: happening a lot more lately, so I'm just calling it like I see it...


    Problem is, you often can't really judge what an amp really sounds like that you've never played, because basing your opinion on profiles is like 30 people looking at the same thing from different directions and backgrounds: and the mic placement, settings, outboard gear, people's ears and what pleases them and turns them off, the mix they are trying to fit into etc are the "different backgrounds and viewpoints" in that situation, make sense?

    You really need to find a profiler that you enjoy what they do more than others, and probably stick with what they release: this has been the best luck for me, as well as many others who gravitate towards their favorite commercial profilers. There are many times I will see profiles released of an amp that I'm a huge fan of, but may not be at all a fan of who is actually doing the profiling. This is also vice versa: sometimes there is an amp I'm apathetic about or not super interested in, but I'll pick it up because I know the profiler gets great tones out of everything ( according to my ear)and it will be usable and probably better than I think... this is a good starting point for you in my opinion... find profilers you really enjoy most of their stuff and their " flavor" if you will... there's a bunch of them out there now, it's gonna take some time to get through the majority nowadays...

    Quote from VESmedic

    Good luck getting any unbiased answers around here initially: it seems the new trend is for people to come in and immediately spam their own personal profiles: happening a lot more lately, so I'm just calling it like I see it...

    "Third-party Rigs Discussion" Sub-forum Now a Free-for-all Advertising Opportunity?

    Quote from Mattfig

    Not trying to spam but rather participate. I believe my profiles are very good and I work hard to connect with customers. Cheers!

    You know I love and support you, Matt, so I trust you won't take this the wrong way, mate.

    The thing is, I see threads where users ask for others' opinions as requiring non-vested-interest participation, logically by-definition.

    Obviously I don't make the rules around here, so hopefully at some point a mod will help to clarify things by sharing Kemper's vision for this sub-forum.

    Quote from VESmedic

    Good luck getting any unbiased answers around here initially: it seems the new trend is for people to come in and immediately spam their own personal profiles: happening a lot more lately, so I'm just calling it like I see it...


    Problem is, you often can't really judge what an amp really sounds like that you've never played, because basing your opinion on profiles is like 30 people looking at the same thing from different directions and backgrounds: and the mic placement, settings, outboard gear, people's ears and what pleases them and turns them off, the mix they are trying to fit into etc are the "different backgrounds and viewpoints" in that situation, make sense?

    You really need to find a profiler that you enjoy what they do more than others, and probably stick with what they release: this has been the best luck for me, as well as many others who gravitate towards their favorite commercial profilers. There are many times I will see profiles released of an amp that I'm a huge fan of, but may not be at all a fan of who is actually doing the profiling. This is also vice versa: sometimes there is an amp I'm apathetic about or not super interested in, but I'll pick it up because I know the profiler gets great tones out of everything ( according to my ear)and it will be usable and probably better than I think... this is a good starting point for you in my opinion... find profilers you really enjoy most of their stuff and their " flavor" if you will... there's a bunch of them out there now, it's gonna take some time to get through the majority nowadays...

    That's completely true, and I do almost use exclusively Top Jimi profiles, but I don't really like the really hi gain profiles hence this thread... And obviously everyone's going to be biased, but I was (and still am) hoping to see someone saying "oh yeah, this and this profile is like spot on that tone" and then I could have given it a shot at least. I have tried a lot of profilers, not gonna mention any names but Top Jimi's profiles are my faves. But I do have a 2203KK home in Norway, where I'll go for next week so I guess I'll have to grab an SM57 and do the work myself trying to get some more metal oriented tones :P

    Quote from nakedzen

    Metallica used a bit complicated setup those days so I doubt you'll find the exact sound anywhere. They played Mesa MkIIC+ preamp section into Marshall JCM power section into Marshall cabs. I think a big part of that tone comes from the Marshall cabs and the G12T75 speakers. So look for profiles of MkIIC+ through Marshall 1960 cabs.

    Thanks for your information man!!!

    I Really appreciate!

    A tone of profiles that i thought were crap i am only just now starting to realize the pick ups/clarity /definition etc CAN FIX THEM.... not EQ..first that then EQ....there is no way your gong to get a profile right out of the box like this unless you put in a bit of tweaking

    Thank you captain obvious (Ash) ...in saying that closer to the source is desirable..
    There are 2 ways to do this...

    First

    1) learn how to tweak TO PICK UPS..(down picking like a mofo too since its JH) via clarity definition and other things (tone junkie just did a good vid on that BTW)
    2) You can then try some free OR commercial ones that have these tones in mind (Choptones are one who do Metallica tones or the mesa amp packs etc ) then tweak...i prefer you try this first as you will learn some thing at least. TRY SOME MARSHAL CABS TOO.

    Second is the quick fix and only for fat lazy bastards like i WAS.

    1) send Di's for re-amping to some commercial vendors who can tone match and get you 99% there...You will have to have some power in your fingers to get that tone..yep i said it..you wont get that tone unless you can down pick like that :whistling:

    Now since beer has nothing to do with this i wont mention it. :D

    Ash

    Have a beer and don't sneer. -CJ. Two non powered Kempers -Two mission stereo FRFR Cabs - Ditto X4 -TC electronic Mimiq.

    I am glad @ashtweth did NOT mention beer this time! Really!

    Could have been to confusing along the term "pick up".

    Like: You first have to "pick up" a beer ....and than a second, but only with one hand, while the other hand is practicing down strokes. You than have to increase the tempo bit by bit ....Bitte ein Bit 8o
    (sorry for that bad german beer joke!)

    @alfi 27

    I dont play metal anymore but "I grew up" living my first live-/and studio experiences in the late 80s/early 90s..when everyone "had to" play modified JCMs and Mesa-amps..I think I know what you are looking for..

    So,go to the RE and look out for @R.U.serious & @FastRedPonyCar..both guys did a lot of "spirit of modern hardrock & classic/hair metal"-stuff.Actually I use their profiles almost exclusivly when ever my late 80s custom made ESP screams for some love and I get bored with long periods of low-/medium gain Strat-/LesPaul playing.Their profiles cost nothing and are really good.

    In 99% of checking high gain profiles I immidiatly lower definition.Then presence.Very often I turn up some "treble" to get me some "air" I lost through the first two steps..if the profile still does not sound good I dont try to tweak it any further.Next.

    Quote from Dean_R

    I'm not sure if I watched a video tutorial (from Kemper), where they point out that reducing definition can be very useful for removing any harshness and the parameter next to it is Sag can be added to put back the amp character that was lost by reducing the Definition. If you need distinct string separation you add a little Clarity, sometimes I add very little attack to emphasize it.

    These 4 steps are exactly what I've always done since I first fiddled with the Kemper, Deano. Maybe it was just dumb luck, but this was the order I landed on.

    The only other thing is I like to add is a little Amp Compression if I lower the gain somewhat too; helps with sustain and consistency, obviously, especially for leads.

    Then I look at the stack EQ... if it's still needed.

    Thanks guys! I did finally bite the bullet and buy TopJimi's Mesa Boogie JP-2C pack, and even though the profiles won't give a 100% accurate impression of how the true amp sounds, behaves etc I did find something odd with the profile pack at least. The low and medium gain (all relative to the amp's settings, not actually low gain and mid gain) profiles sound somewhat strange kind of dark and confused, and for those levels of gain my Marshall profiles sound a lot better to me. However, something happened when I changed to the one called "high". It had something that reminded me of glorious Marshall-esque aggressive bite, which became even more prominent after tweaking. And now I think I am probably there when it comes to metal tones! Really odd that it gets more bite when increasing gain, which is definitely not the case with Marshalls.

    Anyway, here's a short clip for anyone considering the same pack:

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    Got the TJ JP-2C pack and didn't like it. Dark, muddy...

    For JP-2C I much prefer some of the profiles Björn ( net99) shared for free:
    Mesa Boogie JP2C into Mesa Rectifier 4x12 Slant

    My main profile is also a Mesa Mk3 on RE from Thumas. Check his profiles out, especially "Mesa mk3 Merged 02". May not be precisely the Metallica tone, but it's one of the best balanced profiles I've encountered in the KPA after exhaustingly going through thousands of profiles I hated.

    Quote from Alfi27


    My problem is that I cannot find any metal tones I like, the closest I've come is the 1984 Brown Sound profile from Top Jimi which is my metal profile of choice at the moment, but it's not quite there. Other profiles of more "pure" metal amps I don't really like, I got his Bogner Überschall TwinJet pack and while I absolutely love the first channel, it doesn't have enough gain for metal and the second channel is way too fat and dark, loose in the bass etc. That's the way most of them are, really dark sounding and loose bass response.

    There are tons of good metal profiles out there. It's nothing wrong with the profiles out there. Some profiles sounds better with a different guitar/pickups. Are you satisfied with your guitar(s) and pickups to start with? Do you judge a guitar sound after how it sounds in a mix? Cause if you do, it doesn't matter so much how it sounds in solo.It's how it sounds in a mix that matters. And no matter what you use you will always sound like your self no matter what guitar or amp you use.It's been proven over and over and over again, use less gain than you think to get a good metal tone.. .

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau

    Quote from GearJocke

    There are tons of good metal profiles out there. It's nothing wrong with the profiles out there. Some profiles sounds better with a different guitar/pickups. Are you satisfied with your guitar(s) and pickups to start with? Do you judge a guitar sound after how it sounds in a mix? Cause if you do, it doesn't matter so much how it sounds in solo.It's how it sounds in a mix that matters. And no matter what you use you will always sound like your self no matter what guitar or amp you use.It's been proven over and over and over again, use less gain than you think to get a good metal tone.. .

    Not really. Plenty of people don't know how to properly mic a cab, or don't mic it to the taste of another person. I've also heard plenty of guys who made profiles of their amps & cabs with their guitars and the sound samples sounded awful to my ears. But this is subjective. Still, it's not that all profiles sound great and the only problem is that you're not using the right guitar or pickups.

    You have a point that it most matters how a guitar sounds in the mix, but the sound itself should inspire you to play. You can always tweak a tone to fit in a mix, it just may take more work. And it depends what kind of mix you're talking about.

    Quote from GearJocke

    There are tons of good metal profiles out there. It's nothing wrong with the profiles out there. Some profiles sounds better with a different guitar/pickups. Are you satisfied with your guitar(s) and pickups to start with? Do you judge a guitar sound after how it sounds in a mix? Cause if you do, it doesn't matter so much how it sounds in solo.It's how it sounds in a mix that matters. And no matter what you use you will always sound like your self no matter what guitar or amp you use.It's been proven over and over and over again, use less gain than you think to get a good metal tone.. .

    I have never understood why some people talk like it's a «rule» that a guitar tone either sounds good in a mix, or alone. When I noodle around on my Kemper I don't have one profile for that, and another one for playing to a backing track or recording or whatever. That may be because I really love my mids, scooping them makes me physically ill... What you're saying my apply to some people who love to scoop the mids for that "modern metal tone" though, but I don't think I'm the only one who happens to like the same kind of tones in a mix as well as alone.

    To answer your question, I usually judge a profile based on what it sounds like by its own because it may give me that little something that I "need" to get the right vibe, to write whatever I aim to write at the time. I have plenty of profiles that sound great in a mix, and also by themselves but may not give me the exact vibe I'm looking for. So then I can use them for the vibe they have on its own, and for recording other stuff as well if the initial profile with the "right vibe" isn't the right one in the mix if you know what I'm saying. Sometimes it can even be a psychological thing, you crank up some profiles of a Marshall YJM100 and then you get the urge to play like Malmsteen (not that I can do that) :P

    Also, I almost practically live on the «Jailbreak Malcolm» profile from TopJimi's AC/DC pack and tend to use too little gain rather than too much :D

    Edited once, last by Alfi27 (October 21, 2017 at 2:46 PM).

    Quote from Alfi27

    ... That may be because I really love my mids, scooping them makes me physically ill...

    LOL I feel the same way., but I'm able to find many good metal tones, From commercial profiles I like Guido's profiles, If you don't have any of his you might want to start with the Bognar XTC ( he has two packages , one that's Merged and the early one that wasn't merged) I would start with the early one that isn't merged. The reason I recommend the Bognar is because it retains many of the mids

    Aside from commercial profiles, R_U_Serius free profiles include good metal profiles.So is the latest free rig pack from Kemper (Ton(e)hammer), it has many good metal profiles without having to spend a dime.

    Quote from MementoMori

    Not really. Plenty of people don't know how to properly mic a cab, or don't mic it to the taste of another person. I've also heard plenty of guys who made profiles of their amps & cabs with their guitars and the sound samples sounded awful to my ears. But this is subjective. Still, it's not that all profiles sound great and the only problem is that you're not using the right guitar or pickups.
    You have a point that it most matters how a guitar sounds in the mix, but the sound itself should inspire you to play. You can always tweak a tone to fit in a mix, it just may take more work. And it depends what kind of mix you're talking about.

    I don't deny there are some bad and even really, really bad profiles. I've downloaded countless of them from the free rig download in the past. I was thinking about commercial profiles you find here on this forum. Okey I should probably said that but it was nearly 03.00 am here and I was drunk too. :whistling: Well at least my spelling wasn't that bad as can happen when drunk, even in ny native language. :D

    Think for yourself, or others will think for you wihout thinking of you

    Henry David Thoreau